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Shadow Lodge

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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Maps, Rulebook Subscriber
Demonic Warlord wrote:
TimD wrote:

Personally, I’d avoid forums where the image & video embedding was allowed if this was turned on. Your plan would only diminish my viewing the 3PP forum or whatever forums this would be made active.

I do much of my message board browsing while at work and I avoid any areas of the website where I may be viewing something which would call more of my coworkers’ attention to my monitor.
If I’m browsing through the store area I know what I’m in for and therefore only go to that area when I’m not worried about the graphics being seen or when I’m at home.

Just another POV to consider.

-TimD

by the gods, Read the post! the OP said one image, (no video) by the Publishers only, during their product announcements !

it means you don't have to click to see what the cover looks like, that's all.

No - it means special coding so that suddenly a new section of the forum is allowed to have embedded content, rather than following the normal rules. And there are additional rules needed to limit who can post this type of content, when they can post it, and just what type of embedded content is allowed.

All this despite the fact that there is significant opposition to allowing this, and that there already is a special part of the Paizo web site - the store - where just this sort of thing *is* appropriate.

Liberty's Edge

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Bingo!

RPG Superstar 2009, Contributor

15 people marked this as a favorite.

I think the crux of this entire discussion really hinges on the difference between a product announcement forum vs. the web store's product forum. It's not so much about the amount of specialized coding it would require...or the space any additional product images might require...etc. There would certainly be some technical considerations with regards to all that, but it's not the core issue to allowing it or disallowing it. Instead, it's more of a business concern.

For instance, as part of the Legendary Games design team, I can appreciate the position of a 3PP wanting to attach image files (or even video segments) to hawk their stuff. As others have pointed out, Paizo certainly provides the means to post up the cover image of your product on the web store forums. They need that to help sell your product for you...and remember, that's not simply out of the goodness of their heart. They take a piece of every 3PP sale off that forum. And they deserve it because they're acting as an extended marketing arm for your company. You're using their site to sell your goods and counting on the draw of their name and their online marketplace to give you access to an audience you can't usually generate on your own just by trying to steer people to your company's website. By posting up your stuff there...i.e., products with images...you're reaping the benefits of the draw that their marketplace generates for Pathfinder customers. And those are your potential customers, as well. That's why there's a surcharge for capitalizing on that.

Now, if you follow what the OP is requesting to its natural conclusion, it's essentially asking for the ability to circumvent all that...i.e., to market your products (with attached imagery) on their site without necessarily establishing a presence in their web store. That would cut out Paizo's ability to receive a cut of the business their website helped generate for you. Basically, there'd be nothing stopping you from never selling through Paizo, and yet, you'd be using their forums to create product announcements to reach that same audience, but all while steering potential customers only to your website or some other, competing webstore (like DTRPG, D20PFSRD, etc.). You can do that even today...just not without the accompanying imagery that plays such a powerful role in attracting business. Instead, all you can do today is verbally describe your product and provide a link to those other places. Will that generate some business for you? Yes. Some. But not as much as allowing 3PP's to also attach images to those product announcements to help sell them.

Thus, personally, if I were in Paizo's shoes, I'd resist giving the ability to attach images to any posts except those in the webstore, because it protects the investment they're making in their own marketplace here on their site. They still want to encourage the success of 3PPs. Obviously. And they can help you do that by adding you to their webstore. But they deserve to take a cut of your sales for doing that. And they also have to safeguard the consumer base they established by building up the online commerce which takes place here on a daily basis.

But that's just my two cents,
--Neil

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Amazingly well said Neil.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

9 people marked this as a favorite.

Well, given the lack of professionalism shown by the OP, I will not be purchasing ConflictRoleplaying's products. This is a matter that should have been dealt with privately.


DW,
Please take your own advice and re-read what I posted.

Emphasis added, but I’ll reiterate… I avoid areas with large images (either static or video, single or multiple) while I’m at work. I’ve actually stopped using d20pfsrd for this same concern and several wikia sites. I assure you that I’m completely capable of clicking on a link if I want to see a cover image.

-TimD

Demonic Warlord wrote:
TimD wrote:

Personally, I’d avoid forums where the image & video embedding was allowed …

I do much of my message board browsing while at work and I avoid any areas of the website where I may be viewing something which would call more of my coworkers’ attention to my monitor.

by the gods, Read the post! the OP said one image, (no video) by the Publishers only, during their product announcements !

it means you don't have to click to see what the cover looks like, that's all.

ConflictRoleplaying wrote:


Then why, oh why does this forum dedicated to third-party publishers, have such terrible support for Images, Video or Rich formatting?

Designer, RPG Superstar Judge

8 people marked this as a favorite.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but... can't you just post that sort of thing on your own website and post a link to it in the product description or a thread about it? You're asking Paizo to do a lot of work adding video and image functionality to just one part of the web site (only the 3pp forum), with special authorization (only registered 3pp) and limitation (only one per thread) requirements for that functionality, when all you need to do is this:

"Hey, we posted an unboxing video of our new product, check it out here!"

Sczarni

TimD wrote:

DW,

Please take your own advice and re-read what I posted.

Emphasis added, but I’ll reiterate… I avoid areas with large images (either static or video, single or multiple) while I’m at work. I’ve actually stopped using d20pfsrd for this same concern and several wikia sites. I assure you that I’m completely capable of clicking on a link if I want to see a cover image.

-TimD

I'm with TimD, it would force me to minimize the 3PP forum from work, meaning those product announcements would get less exposure from me

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

Just my 2 cents... But without knowing specifics about code quality, environment or other issues, I would guess the requested functionality would require at least 10 days of development and another 10 of tests and audits. Will the 3pp pay that person-month? ;)


We like to post our announcements on here but I'm not really sure how much we would get out of having pics or videos (particularly when you conciser how much work it takes on Paizo's end). We generally post those on our own stuff (like our site or social network channels). The people on the message board are looking for new threads from their fav. publishers. On our social networks that's not always true.

Liberty's Edge

Hey, I'd just like to point that if Images were in the forums (which I don't think is the true aim of this post), that would ruin it.

When I play PbP, or any RPG for that matter, on these forums, I love to sit there and in depth describe exactly how my half-elf rogue Bluffed her way through a mutiny. I love to read my fellow group mates posts about jumping off the Crows Nest into a dive, slicing a monster in two. I loved when our Fighter used a disguise crown to look like a terrifying beast. I love to read about it though.

If somebody could get on these forums and post whatever in gods name they want, wouldn't that ruin the point of PbP RP? I believe that a good RP is all about description, and if someone else can in five minutes, search google, imbed a picture of their character doing whatever they want them to be doing, that would make the RP moment gone for me. I love the awesome pictures Paizo has put throughout the Core books, but I don't flip open the page to goblin just to remind myself what they look like every time my group fights one.

But, I would hate even more for Paizo to pay for hosting and such, to have a service like this.

-A concerned Half-Elf

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

Tanis Newlun wrote:

Hey, I'd just like to point that if Images were in the forums (which I don't think is the true aim of this post), that would ruin it.

When I play PbP, or any RPG for that matter, on these forums, I love to sit there and in depth describe exactly how my half-elf rogue Bluffed her way through a mutiny. I love to read my fellow group mates posts about jumping off the Crows Nest into a dive, slicing a monster in two. I loved when our Fighter used a disguise crown to look like a terrifying beast. I love to read about it though.

If somebody could get on these forums and post whatever in gods name they want, wouldn't that ruin the point of PbP RP? I believe that a good RP is all about description, and if someone else can in five minutes, search google, imbed a picture of their character doing whatever they want them to be doing, that would make the RP moment gone for me. I love the awesome pictures Paizo has put throughout the Core books, but I don't flip open the page to goblin just to remind myself what they look like every time my group fights one.

But, I would hate even more for Paizo to pay for hosting and such, to have a service like this.

-A concerned Half-Elf

That's odd because I think normally the main argument for image hosting on the boards is for PBPs, so it's easier for GMs to post images of NPCs and battlemaps and other "handouts."

I can't imagine people posting "My character does this," and then putting up a link to a picture. Maybe your experiences are different, but I've played PBPs on other boards where image posting is enabled, including freeform RPs where things are very informal, and that seldom happens--and often its rare usage is appropriate (or silly, and placed in appropriate "crack thread" in an ooc section of the game). Text is always the preferred medium. If anything it's too much of a pain to look for all the appropriate images (it's sometimes a pain just to look for images for icons where you make your own avatars).

I think being able to upload images on the campaigns page would be nice if it couldn't be done on the forums. And that might be nice compromise were it ever possible.

But at any rate I doubt they'll allow image hosting on the forums, they've always been clear why they don't do it. I don't want image hosting on the forums just because I'm afraid various NON-pbp threads would devolve into meme photos, and the local snarksters in particular would use "u mad?" and such images to help derail threads even faster than they normally do. Anyway, I kind of like the nice clean text of the board.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Only 1 way to settle this, Dance off...

Sovereign Court

Battle Royale

...

...

...

...

with cheese.

And while I did Favorite the earlier post from Neil, after rereading it, I really wish I could Favorite it a second time. Really well spoken ... written ... whatever, Neil.

RPG Superstar 2009, Contributor

zylphryx wrote:
And while I did Favorite the earlier post from Neil, after rereading it, I really wish I could Favorite it a second time. Really well spoken ... written ... whatever, Neil.

Thanks. Of course, I'm not certain it was that well-written. Otherwise, it wouldn't have taken me four paragraphs to make my point. ;-)

Grand Lodge

GM_Solspiral wrote:
Only 1 way to settle this, Dance off...

No. It's a walk off, but only if David Bowie is judging.

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