Grizzly mentioned Inquisitor for Bane, but 5 levels isn't so much a dip as being your primary class unless you're pretty high level. Along the same lines though, I like the Grey Gardener prestige; it's essentially Inquisitor that gets full (iirc) casting progression from another divine class.
For Synthesist I thought there were BAB issues, as you replace your BAB with the eidolon's and the eidolon's is only based on your Summoner level.
If you read correctly what I wrote, I said only a 2 level dip, not 5. The item, Bane Baldric, allows you to gain the bane ability IF NOT an inquisitor. IF you are an inquisitor, you will still gain that bane ability from the baldric, but it will be the +5 levels to your 2 levels, making your bane as if 7th.
So again, inquisitor for a 2 LEVEL DIP, is a huge gain. Not 5 levels as you say.
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Does S&S go all the way to 20? Will you ever know?
Sorry, missed this earlier. I don't think the AP goes to 20th, but the GM says he'll go as long as we want. Personally, I'm enjoying it a lot, so I hope we do.
20th level pirates! Arrr!
Great stuff, thanks for all the info.
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Sometimes you are aiming for something different than BAB or DPR (or overall power).
My PFS character aims for high AC and saves so that I can get to the casters and put them down as a melee character. I wanted to build him as a melee character who dumps STR too.
Also I aim for the Halfling Prestige class.
With all this in mind, my build is as follows :
Fighter (Lore Warden) 2 / Ninja 1 / Wizard (Foresight) 1 / Monk (Flowing) 1
He is basically a swiss army knife with high saves, AC and Init.
Later on I will build up his Sneak Attack through dipping in Sleepless Detective, Inner Sea Pirate and Master Spy.
I also considered dips in Urban Barbarian and Paladin but decided against them. Too bad that the Vivisectionist got banned.
You're a melee build with BAB +2 at level 5. That could be a problem, you know? All that multiclassing is also going to hurt your hit points - you'll almost never get the favourite class bonus, and often be stuck with 1d8 per level or worse.
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You're a melee build with BAB +2 at level 5. That could be a problem, you know? All that multiclassing is also going to hurt your hit points - you'll almost never get the favourite class bonus, and often be stuck with 1d8 per level or worse.
You are right. I need to play smart and will not enjoy much combat success till later. Though I did enjoy it in the first 3 levels.
But then I am also a melee build with AC 27, Spd 60, Fort 10, Ref 14, Will 9, Init 11 and CMB 12 at 5th level. Not to mention the Vanish thing :-)
If I recall correctly, Tome of Battle, and Oracle Curses are a little like that in that in that the power of the oracle's curse, and the effective initiatior level (and highest level manuvers that could be used) were based on (Levels in Class + Initiator prestige classes/Oracle curse advancing classes + 1/2 Other classes)
It didn't hurt nearly as much to multiclass initiators as it does a primary spellcaster since a two level dip was effectively only -1 to caster level instead of putting you an entire spell level behind.
The problem with it was that it made dipping into these classes ridiculously good at mid levels since one level at, say 9th level gave access to up to third level manuvers, and depending on class potentially granting; Iron Heart Surge, White Raven Tactics, Cloak of Deception, Shadow Jaunt, Sudden Leap, etc; with Crusader and Warblade not even losing a point of BAB, and also having the best recovery mechanisms.
You still see it somewhat in the Barbarians taking an oracle dip at 9 for immunity to fatigue via lame curse.
That's why base magic bonus should only count as caster level. Your spell resolves with a level based on your Hit Dice, but you still only know a number of spells / have access to spells per day based on your actual level in the class. For example, if a 4th level barbarian 'dips' into cleric, his spells resolve as though he had caster level 3 (so cure light wounds heals for 1d8+3) but he still only had the class features of a 1st level cleric.
Of course, abilities would need to be applied to this system on a case-by-case basis. For example, its okay if your Smite Evil uses your base attack bonus to calculate its damage, in my opinion, but it should be your paladin level that determines uses per day.
Also, I've never seen a barbarian dip oracle for fatigue immunity and considering that the ability nullifies a barbarian's fast movement, I think I'm okay with taking a level with few benefits besides no fatigue after raging.
Fatigue imminity allows you to use your once-per-rage-powers every single round. Thats pretty awesome.
Calculating CL the way you did is no good idea at all when it comes to balanceing the system.
Most of my players are multi-classed :
1) invulnerable dwarven barbarian 12 fighter 1
2) halfling rogue 3 magus 4 arcane trickster 6
3) dwarven paladin 4 sorcerer 1 dragon disciple 8
4) dwarven storm druid 13
5) human wizard 3, cleric 3, mystic theurge 7
6) elven fighter 1, wizard 5, arcane archer 3, eldritch knight 4
7) half-elven summoner 13
altogether I only have two single class characters in my campaign, they do tend to be a bit more powerful if optimized but my players rarely do, I guess most of them multi-class to get into a prestige class they like.
Sounds interesting [I'm not looking for anything broken, just fun] can you post the full build please?
I'd be happy to give you my build, but I'm afraid you're going to have to research all of the abilities yourself; I'm a little pressed for time at the moment.
Race Kitsune, ECL 5; Cavalier 2 (bannerman) / Fighter 3 (tactician)
Str 12; Dex 16; Con 12; Int 14; Wis 10; Cha 16
Base Attack Bonus +5; Base Fort Save: +6; Base Ref Save: +1; Base Will Save: +1
Class Features:
Banner +1, Challenge 1/Day, Order of the Cockatrice, Tactician (1/Day; 4 rounds), Order Ability: Braggart, Strategic Training, Tactical Awareness.
Feats:
Combat Expertise, Outflank (tactician bonus), Improved Feint, Improved Trip, Antagonize.
Because of the build, I get 4 + Int skill points at every level (see Strategic Training) and I have a rather impressive list of social and knowledge skills; my build effectively allows me to act as part face while using those skills to my advantage in combat.
In combat, my character spends most of his time weakening his enemies or setting himself up for bigger combo tactics with his allies. Tripping an enemy effectively adds a +4 bonus to a melee attacker's AC while also allowing me to make an attack of opportunity if it decides to stand up. The shaken condition, believe it or not, has made or broken combats for my group; —2 to hit and on saves can be HUGE for a group, which has made Dazzling Display more than worth the two level investment in Cavalier.
Looking forward, I'm planning on grabbing Combat Reflexes and Greater Trip, which will let my successful trips provoke from my allies. Also looking into grabbing the Whirlwind Attack feat chain over several levels in order to trip everything around me. Because of the tactician's special ability involving aid another actions, Swift Aid is also on my radar as is the Combat Patrol feat, which would allow me to threaten a massive area and move about it in order to counter enemies.
tl;dr My build focuses on support and increasing the effectiveness of my allies through controlling the battlefield. Much more fun and tactical then trying to out-DPR every other person in my party.