Seeker Lore

[Casper Gronemann]

I have a question about the Oracle Archetype "Seeker", specifically the "Seeker Lore" ability. From RAW:

"By 3rd level, a seeker has already learned much about his mystery, and is more comfortable using the bonus spells gained by that mystery. He gains a +4 bonus on all concentration checks, on caster level checks made to overcome spell resistance, and on all Knowledge (arcana) and Spellcraft checks made on topics associated with his bonus spells.

This ability replaces the revelation gained at 3rd level."

My question is whether the +4 to Conc and spell-pen applies to all the Oracle's spells or just the bonus spells from her mystery? The first seems extremely good, while the latter seems extremely weak for the price of a revelation, especially since the Lore mystery, which plays very well with the Seeker thematically, literally has no spells that play well with Conc or spell-pen. Though I suppose the latter is true for Seeker Magic as well.

So yeah, what's the right reading?

[MurphysParadox]

It is only for his bonus spells. Considering it says that you are more comfortable using the bonus spells.

[Casper Gronemann]

MurphysParadox wrote:

It is only for his bonus spells. Considering it says that you are more comfortable using the bonus spells.

Yeah, in my mind it's like this:

In favor of "only for bonus spells" is the first line, where it says more comfortable with bonus spells.

Against it is the komma: "He gains a +4 bonus on all concentration checks, on caster level checks made to overcome spell resistance, and on all Knowledge (arcana) and Spellcraft checks made on topics associated with his bonus spells."

^ This sentence read without the first line is grammatically constructed to say:

+4 Conc

+4 Spell-pen

+4 Know (arc) and Spellcraft made on topics associated his bonus spells

So yeah. My gut tells me you're right though, so I'm probably going to change this archetype. There's not much to it unless most of the spells from your Mystery benefit from meta-magic and Conc + Spell-pen, which makes little sense considering the Lore-mystery fits so well with the Seeker Archetype thematically.

[eakratz]

Bump.

I am currently playing a seeker sorcerer, and I have a player building one.

[andreww]

A strict reading gives you the SR and Concentration bonus to all spells. Expect table variation.

[gamerdork]

Casts Raise Thread...

Another fine example of excellent grammar in Pathfinder text. </sarcasm> I also have a seeker in a home AP, and will have to ask my GM how he interprets this. Although it would seem that Casper is correct (above), those first two points he listed would be relatively powerful to gain at 3rd level.

Another relevant question, regarding the 3rd level ability "Seeker Lore": ...irrelevant text skipped... "This ability replaces the bloodline power gained at 3rd level."

The normal 3rd-level bloodline power is:

Metamagic Adept (Ex): At 3rd level, you can apply any one metamagic feat you know to a spell you are about to cast without increasing the casting time. You must still expend a higher-level spell slot to cast this spell. You can use this ability once per day at 3rd level and one additional time per day for every four sorcerer levels you possess beyond 3rd, up to five times per day at 19th level. At 20th level, this ability is replaced by arcane apotheosis.

Does Seeker Lore replace the entire Metamagic Adept ability? (Likely, yes.) Or does it only replace the 3rd-level instance, and the seeker still gains Metamagic Adept at levels 7, 11, 15 and 19 (totaling 4 uses per day at 19th level)?

Game on!
- Corey

[Cavall]

The entire level 3 power. That's the name of the bloodline power, which is completely replaced.

We had our seeker in a game that went to 17. It was just for the bonus spells. He was ok with it, he had more than enough to offer.

If it's for all spells it's about 3 feats worth of abilities. A little much.

[gamerdork]

Cavall wrote:

If it's for all spells it's about 3 feats worth of abilities. A little much.

Very much agreed.

My seeker pretty much only does 2 things at level 3: (hopefully) finds and disables traps (+12 already) and knows stuff (Shattered Star, so History, Engineering and Arcana). And he's an elf so he's also kind of a dick about it.