Pick my 1st level magus feat!


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When leveling up my Strength magus to 2, I realized I'm not eligible for the Power Attack feat I took at 1st level. Now I need to pick a replacement. Problem is that I'm extremely fickle!

My stats are STR 18, 12 DEX, 12 CON, 16 INT, 10 WIS, 7 CHA

As a human, I have Extra Arcane Pool already. The feats that I'm interested are...

Toughness: My head tells me to pick this one because I have a 12 Con.

Extra Arcane Pool: My heart tells me to take this because I like being a spellcaster and having an insane amount of arcane pool points means being able to use Shocking Grasp 10 times a day at level 4 thanks to Spell Recall. And there's the Magus Arcana. Admittedly, this is probably insane...

Arcane Strike: This looks like a good replacement/supplement for Power Attack and stacks with my arcane pool. Thus, it does use a swift action, so I can't use it if I take an immediate action last round.

Improved Initiative: My initiative is +3 (thanks to a trait), so increasing that might be a good idea. However, I'd want to act last anyway to wait for the tank to charge forward and let the ranged fighters take a shot.

What's your thoughts? Any of you have trouble deciding things like this?


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Arcane Strike!


Weapon proficiency Bastard Sword.

But improved init is good, just because you can go first doesn't mean you HAVE to go first.

Extra arcane pool is something you might want to take more than once at some point, now isnt bad, level 3 isnt bad and again at level 5 is a good idea... many arcane pool points... many many!

Dark Archive

I'm gonna second Improved Initative. It's an awesome feat for pretty much everybody.

Arcane Strike is nice, but requiring a Swift Action makes it less awesome for Magi, considering they have LOTS of way to burn that Swift Action.

Shadow Lodge

Toughness. Way worth it long run. Or craft marvelous item if you don't have a dedicated caster in the party.

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Pendagast wrote:

Weapon proficiency Bastard Sword.

But improved init is good, just because you can go first doesn't mean you HAVE to go first.

Extra arcane pool is something you might want to take more than once at some point, now isnt bad, level 3 isnt bad and again at level 5 is a good idea... many arcane pool points... many many!

Bastard Sword? I never thought of that. Darn it, imagining my magus toting around a big flippin' sword, trying to convince people he's a wizard. That would also make for an interesting exchange with the valkyrie-like paladin. Curses! You're making this even harder!

I was considering taking Extra Arcana at level 3 so I have more to spend on my delicious arcane pool points. I have 6 of them at the moment. Then maybe Power Attack at 5. Though Power Attack at 3 would be a good idea too.


I think you should take Toughness eventually, but not necessarily at 1st level. That retroactive hit pointage, yo.

Improved Initiative is good from the get-go, especially for casters since if you need to buff up/toss down an AoE spell it's best to do it ASAP.

Shadow Lodge

I have my magus a blade bonded Kensi magus so I didn't need to spend the feet on bastard sword proficiency


I'd vote for Arcane Strike


I'm a big fan of Improved trip feat. When you combine that with the wand arcana and a wand of true strike, your trip attacks are obscene.
This gives you a number of benefits. If they stand up it allows a AoO and denies them a full attack action (very important in the higher levels). If they don't stand up, they take a nasty penalty to attack and makes it easier for you to attack.

Getting Improved trip does require you grabbing combat expertise. Which can also be usefully as it can bump up your defenses at a minor cost which you won't really notice with that wand of true strike.

Only real problem with this tactic is you won't be dishing out the damage magus have been know to do. As you'll be more focused on battlefield control.


assuming you arent evil, a sunblade will do better for you in the long run than a regular bastard sword, taking weapon focus(short sword) might be worth something, its a crappy weapon for now, but when you can get your hands on one it will be worth not having to burn an extra feat to switch weapons

i also recommend weapon specialization (short sword) later on just to maximize what you can do with that sunblade

if you're gonna burn a feat on exotic proficiency (which you should have just taken the heirloom weapon trait to get it for free) get the falcata since its statistically proven to be better since it has a x3 crit multiplier

arcane pool lets you make weapons keen like the paladin divine bond later on right? higher threat ranges and crit multipliers are good considering that fact

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Matt2VK wrote:

I'm a big fan of Improved trip feat. When you combine that with the wand arcana and a wand of true strike, your trip attacks are obscene.

This gives you a number of benefits. If they stand up it allows a AoO and denies them a full attack action (very important in the higher levels). If they don't stand up, they take a nasty penalty to attack and makes it easier for you to attack.

Getting Improved trip does require you grabbing combat expertise. Which can also be usefully as it can bump up your defenses at a minor cost which you won't really notice with that wand of true strike.

Only real problem with this tactic is you won't be dishing out the damage magus have been know to do. As you'll be more focused on battlefield control.

I seriously considered a trip build with my magus before. It was appealing, but I didn't really want to burn two feats and a magus arcana when the reason I'm playing a magus is to be an awesome spellcaster that's good with a sword. Plus, it's not in my character to knock someone down and then beat them.

Unless it's a pugwampi. He hates pugwampis. He nearly died from a splinter because of a pugwampi.


master_marshmallow wrote:

assuming you arent evil, a sunblade will do better for you in the long run than a regular bastard sword, taking weapon focus(short sword) might be worth something, its a crappy weapon for now, but when you can get your hands on one it will be worth not having to burn an extra feat to switch weapons

i also recommend weapon specialization (short sword) later on just to maximize what you can do with that sunblade

if you're gonna burn a feat on exotic proficiency (which you should have just taken the heirloom weapon trait to get it for free) get the falcata since its statistically proven to be better since it has a x3 crit multiplier

arcane pool lets you make weapons keen like the paladin divine bond later on right? higher threat ranges and crit multipliers are good considering that fact

Planning feats on the idea that you will somehow/someday have a certain magical weapon is a really bad idea. Especially since that particular weapon has several draw backs where it wouldnt be a great weapon to have.

Heirloom trait ONLY works on THAT weapon, not every weapon of it's type. A trait will NEVER give you the equivalent of a full feat.


Pendagast wrote:
master_marshmallow wrote:

assuming you arent evil, a sunblade will do better for you in the long run than a regular bastard sword, taking weapon focus(short sword) might be worth something, its a crappy weapon for now, but when you can get your hands on one it will be worth not having to burn an extra feat to switch weapons

i also recommend weapon specialization (short sword) later on just to maximize what you can do with that sunblade

if you're gonna burn a feat on exotic proficiency (which you should have just taken the heirloom weapon trait to get it for free) get the falcata since its statistically proven to be better since it has a x3 crit multiplier

arcane pool lets you make weapons keen like the paladin divine bond later on right? higher threat ranges and crit multipliers are good considering that fact

Planning feats on the idea that you will somehow/someday have a certain magical weapon is a really bad idea. Especially since that particular weapon has several draw backs where it wouldnt be a great weapon to have.

Heirloom trait ONLY works on THAT weapon, not every weapon of it's type. A trait will NEVER give you the equivalent of a full feat.

i was comparing taking exotic proficiency bastard sword to weapon focus short sword being the better choice, since it benefits him more

im aware that its not as good, and heirloom weapon gets you access to a masterwork weapon of choice that you can stick with, and have enchanted on if you need it, im fairly certain that its not too important tho, given the magus arcana and the spell list, but the main point is taking weapon focus now means he wont have to wast a feat if he wants weapon specialization later, which he should imo

regardless i recommend weapon focus, and pick a weapon to stick with


I'd take Weapon Focus as well, as a +1 to hit with your 3/4 BAB and -2s from Spell Combat is nice.

I'd never recommend going Bastard Sword though. 18-20 x2 crit really is the way to go with Magus, and even if you didn't want to do that a longsword is a bastard sword that does 1 less damage per hit and doesn't cost you a feat. Also not saying this is you, but quite a few of my friends who were all about the bastard sword didn't realize that being able to use a one handed weapon with two hands for 1.5 str isn't a unique to the bastard sword >_<. As for the falcata, it's a good weapon but the x3 doesn't apply to your spells so I wouldn't use it either.


chaoseffect wrote:

I'd take Weapon Focus as well, as a +1 to hit with your 3/4 BAB and -2s from Spell Combat is nice.

I'd never recommend going Bastard Sword though. 18-20 x2 crit really is the way to go with Magus, and even if you didn't want to do that a longsword is a bastard sword that does 1 less damage per hit and doesn't cost you a feat. Also not saying this is you, but quite a few of my friends who were all about the bastard sword didn't realize that being able to use a one handed weapon with two hands for 1.5 str isn't a unique to the bastard sword >_<. As for the falcata, it's a good weapon but the x3 doesn't apply to your spells so I wouldn't use it either.

I always thought that was a broken thing about one handers, that they could do what the hand and a halfers (bastard and dwarf axe) were meant to do. I house rule it, so no you cant do that with a longsword too. But RAW you can.... Bastard sword is still cooler than a longsword, and shortsword is just a stinky stupid sword for a magus to use.

If you were going to go the weapon focus route pick longsword, the chances of finding good magic ones are the highest in the game.

Even though you can add pow pow to it as a magus, it's still nice to have some juice to start with. If I found a sunblade at a later date, I could still use it fine, seeing as magus is proficient in shortsword any way, and I might use it for what it is specifically good at, deferring to my regular duty longsword for most of the fighting.


I don't know if Pendagast is trolling or what. Bastard Swords are horrible. As an exotic weapon, they do 1d10 damage and can be wielded in one hand or two. As a MARTIAL weapon, that you're already proficient in, a longsword does 1d8 and can be wielded in one hand or two.

If you're going to blow EWP, take Falcata. x3 crits on 10die (intensified) shocking grasp are sexxxy!

I also wouldn't waste a feat on Arcane Strike. I know it seems nice, but remember that it takes a swift action to activate every round. That means no spell recall, and no arcane pool to enhance your weapon.

It's probably too late, but I'd totally go Bladebound :D


I don't understand people advocating any weapon that doesn't have an 18-20 crit range for a magus. There is no question that those are the best weapons for them.

That basically means scimitar for a Strength Magus, or if you want to spend an EWP, Rhoka or Urumi.


I'm not a fan of power attack on magus. With all the extra damage coming from spells and eventual arcan strikes, you don't need it. And anyway, you can emulate power attack with your arcane pool. Instead of applying +1 ench (+1 hit and damage) you can simply apply a +1d6 elemental damage (average 3.5 damage), so you are swapping +1 to hit for +2.5 damage, witch is even more advantageous of an exchange than power attack. Remember that you are 3/4 bab and you suck -2 for spell combat so your to hit bonus tend to be precious.

Scarab Sages

Two feats that are really good for a level 1 strength-based magus:

arcane strike
exotic weapon proficiency; katana


EWP isn't great for a Magus in general. Falcata isn't good for Magus because spells only do x2 damage regardless of the weapon's crit multiplier, bastard sword has been covered, and the other 18-20 crit weapons have a slightly larger damage di than the scimitar but not enough to waste a feat on.


Artanthos wrote:

Two feats that are really good for a level 1 strength-based magus:

arcane strike
exotic weapon proficiency; katana

This. EWP Katana is awsome for a Str Magus.

Letting go of or gripping a sword with two hands is a free action. So you can wield your Katana two handed with all your strikes other then your extra attack you cast with.

Big jump in DPS. Take power attack, Weapon Focus, and Arcane strike later. Toughness if you have room.

If you need more 1st level spells get pearls of power. They are cheap.


I like combat casting as an early feat. As a melee person, casting defensively will be used to avoid AoO when utalizing spell combat.


Dragonamedrake wrote:
Artanthos wrote:

Two feats that are really good for a level 1 strength-based magus:

arcane strike
exotic weapon proficiency; katana

This. EWP Katana is awsome for a Str Magus.

Letting go of or gripping a sword with two hands is a free action. So you can wield your Katana two handed with all your strikes other then your extra attack you cast with.

Big jump in DPS. Take power attack, Weapon Focus, and Arcane strike later. Toughness if you have room.

If you need more 1st level spells get pearls of power. They are cheap.

I'm pretty sure this is the same mentality behind the bastard sword


Not on your list: Combat Casting.

Scarab Sages

master_marshmallow wrote:


I'm pretty sure this is the same mentality behind the bastard sword

It is, but it looks cool all the same.


I would consider lowering strength to 16 or 17, and get some HP that way. What level do you expect the campaign to reach?


Cyrad wrote:

When leveling up my Strength magus to 2, I realized I'm not eligible for the Power Attack feat I took at 1st level. Now I need to pick a replacement. Problem is that I'm extremely fickle!

My stats are STR 18, 12 DEX, 12 CON, 16 INT, 10 WIS, 7 CHA

As a human, I have Extra Arcane Pool already. The feats that I'm interested are...

Toughness: My head tells me to pick this one because I have a 12 Con.

Extra Arcane Pool: My heart tells me to take this because I like being a spellcaster and having an insane amount of arcane pool points means being able to use Shocking Grasp 10 times a day at level 4 thanks to Spell Recall. And there's the Magus Arcana. Admittedly, this is probably insane...

Arcane Strike: This looks like a good replacement/supplement for Power Attack and stacks with my arcane pool. Thus, it does use a swift action, so I can't use it if I take an immediate action last round.

Improved Initiative: My initiative is +3 (thanks to a trait), so increasing that might be a good idea. However, I'd want to act last anyway to wait for the tank to charge forward and let the ranged fighters take a shot.

What's your thoughts? Any of you have trouble deciding things like this?

I think any of the ones you mention here are pretty solid. I personally do not like spending a feat on weapon proficiencies of any kind. I agree that the weapon you ought to use is the scimitar or anything else you already know how to wield that has an 18-20 crit range and is able to take a Keen Edge spell, scabbard of keen edges, or have +1 Keen enchanted on it. Since the spell damage uses the weapons crit threat range and only ever gets X2 damage (regardless of the weapon's multiplier) this is the way to go, in my opinion.

As for what I would take, of the options you list, it depends on the party. If you're expected to bear the sole responsibility for being the party's melee tank, I'd take Toughness, if not, I'd go with Extra Arcane Pool (can't be bad) or Arcane Strike (also can't be bad). Improved Initiative is really nice, but IMO not as good as the other three (for you). But that's just my opinion. In some ways I feel like you're going to end up taking more than one of these feats eventually anyway, so it ends up not being a question of whether you take them, but in what order.

I think someone above mentioned taking Craft Wondrous Item, and that's not possible at level 1 of Magus, as it has a minimum level of like 3 or 5, I forget.


Combat Casting is a great choice for a low level Magus as well. Admittingly it gets less good as you get into the higher levels but until then it really shines. That or Arcane Stike (you just really need to watch your swift actions).


at lvl 1 toughness is the best bang for the buck as you get 3 HP instantly considering the magus is kinda low on HP also the skilpoint each lvl in HP might be a good think certainly for lvl 1-4

the option of taking weapon focus "scimitar" can not be chosen at lvl 1 as you need BAB +1 but it is most likley your lvl 3 feat slot :-)

im playing a magus right now Bladebound human with alt racial trait +2 to two abilety scores is kinda nice :-)


As Darkflame points out, the Weapon Focus: anything feat is also not eligible for the same reason as power attack. Similarly, the weapon proficiency feats are out. The list boils down to:

Toughness - You jump from 17 Hp to 20 HP. At level 4+, you gain 1 HP per level. This is never a bad feat. It's also usually not the best feat.

Extra Arcane Pool - You have 2 extra pool points. You already have 6. Why do you need 8 right now? If you plan on REALLY spamming arcane accuracy, then ok...but I personally think that the Wand wielder arcana with a wand of True Strike is better than Arcane Accuracy on most days. I only use Arcane Accuracy when I'm having trouble hitting. You know what adds more to your attack roll? True Strike.

Arcane Strike - you get a scaling untyped damage bonus on virtually all of your attacks that you can use all day every day. This is a great feat.

Improved Initiative - bumps your init. from 3 to 7. Going first is great. Going last means that your tanks have already bottled the enemy, and your wizard or bard has pre-buffed. I personally don't see TOO much usefulness from this feat for your character. If you were a High-dex, reactionary Bard, then sure. This feat most likely will not change your initiative order that significantly.

Combat Casting - a +4 on concentration checks. As a melee combatant that casts spells, you will be doing this all the time. Even the lowest level spells (e.g. arcane mark) have a DC 15 to cast defensively. you've got a +5 to cast defensively right now at lv. 2. This feat means that you cast successfully ~75% of the time, as opposed to ~50%. That seems really handy to me. Granted, by level 6, you'd have ~80% chance to cast defensively anyway. However, with this feat, it becomes automatic. You literally can't fail.


Short term feats, immediate benefits but lose value over time:

Combat Casting - great for casting defensively at early levels, but will eventually become a dead feat since concentration checks to cast defensively will eventually become automatic even with no investment. Plus you can take a penalty with spell combat if you need to, and there are affordable magic items to boost casting defensively. CC helps in grapples as well, but honestly those DCs are so high the +4 isn't going to make a huge difference. I'd rather have a different contingency plan for grapples. Not a great choice IMO. Not terrible, but I'd go in a different direction.

Arcane Strike - the swift action is the killer here. At early levels, its great since you really don't have all that many uses for your swift actions, so it amounts to free damage. At mid levels, you'll want to occasionally use things like arcane accuracy or spell recall in combat, so it loses some value, but will still be useful most of the time. At high levels though, its just really hard to spare the swift action much of the time, even more so if you go with a quicken/spell perfection build of some kind. In that case, once you're using a spell perfection to quicken a spell for free, you'll want to do that quite often, and even when you don't, you will still have swift/immediate action arcanas to use. So Arcane Stike starts collecting dust eventually as well. IMOa better choice than combat casting, but I hate having dead feats later on.

Long term feats, less immediate value, but hold value over time:

Toughness - Meh. Solid feat, better than nothing. Not exciting, but if you're the lone front liner, you should likely consider it. Never a "bad" choice, and will never be wasted.

Extra Arcane Pool - Having already chosen it once, I'd stay away. Just my opinion, but you ought to be able to make do with the pool points you've got. As mentioned, if you plan to spam the heck out of arcane accuracy or accurate strike, it could be solid though.

Improved Initiative - Always a solid feat for any character. A much better feat for casters who like to buff, and better still for casters who like to control the battlefield. You'll certainly be doing some buffing as a Magus, and have the option of a bit of BFC. If you like the control spells available to Magi, I'd pick this. If not, I might still pick this, but it gets much closer.

TL;DR - I'd likely go with Improved Initiative in your shoes (or Toughness if you don't plan on using control spells, and/or are the dedicated party "tank"), but if you do not anticipate the game lasting to high levels, I'd strongly consider Arcane Strike. If you think the game won't even reach mid levels, I'd also consider Combat Casting.


I missed something what race is this character? IF it's human it would get two....

Combat casting has been proven in multiple threads on magus to not really be worth the feat, it SEEMS like it was made with a magus in mind but doesnt really give you the oomph that makes it worth it.

The magus doesnt have a ton of spells at low level, the amount of spell casting in combat he's going to be doing at level 1 isn't anywhere near as much as people imagine, pop fizzle bang it's over. For the majority of the first few levels, he's a 3/4 bab fighter with a cool trick up his sleeve and by the time he's doing what he's specialized in a lot, he really no longer needs combat casting.

Toughness is kind of weak in my book. It really only averages 1hp per level. Maybe if it was the beginning of a feat tree or if it was 3 hp at level 1 and 1 hp for every level after that , yea i know it's only 2 hp more than what it is now, it's just that I dont like feats that are 'only' +1 something.

Arcane strike is one of those things that will rapidly fall into disuse and you will regret taking, it's also a paperwork hassle thing, announcing it, doing your damage, making sure to remember that you can do it, blah blah blah.... yuck

your extra pool is the best bet.

Silver Crusade

If you take the alternate race feature of adopted (by a race that lacks weapon familiarity) the you can have weapon focus at level 1 without meeting the bab requirement

Scarab Sages

Mileage may vary on Arcane Strike. Remember, its damage bonus scales with level and you never run out.

Consider combat where you do not start within 5' of an opponent. Move -> 2-handed grip -> power attack -> arcane strike. This is a scenario I run into frequently. Every point of damage counts. The same with upgrading to a katana: stacking incremental bonuses add up quickly.


Here's something completely different to think about -

If your DM allows, look at the human dual talent racial from the ARG.
While it costs you the human extra feat and the extra skill point, it does give you another +2 stat bump. Depending on your build and where you put that extra +2, it can be more then worth the loss of that feat and extra skill points.


Matt2VK wrote:

Here's something completely different to think about -

If your DM allows, look at the human dual talent racial from the ARG.
While it costs you the human extra feat and the extra skill point, it does give you another +2 stat bump. Depending on your build and where you put that extra +2, it can be more then worth the loss of that feat and extra skill points.

usually im all for this, but magi value skills and feats, and dont require more than 2 good stats, which is why humans and half-elves are so good for them

on track, if your plan is to switch back and forth between one handing and two handing a weapon mid-round, do you even need to take proficiency with the bastard sword? what stinks is you need proficiency to get focus and specialization, but just to use it, you can just say that you are willing to take the negative for nonproficiency right? then as a free action grip it again

seems really cheesy, but legal


Matt2VK wrote:

Here's something completely different to think about -

If your DM allows, look at the human dual talent racial from the ARG.
While it costs you the human extra feat and the extra skill point, it does give you another +2 stat bump. Depending on your build and where you put that extra +2, it can be more then worth the loss of that feat and extra skill points.

One of the players at my table made a really outstanding barbarian using that option.

It's quite funny, the barbarian is smarter than the druid, has extra skill points from intelligence and even has a rank in perform as well as knowledge geography. All because he didnt have to dump his int... I like the option, makes an interesting character that might not otherwise exist.


master_marshmallow wrote:
Matt2VK wrote:

Here's something completely different to think about -

If your DM allows, look at the human dual talent racial from the ARG.
While it costs you the human extra feat and the extra skill point, it does give you another +2 stat bump. Depending on your build and where you put that extra +2, it can be more then worth the loss of that feat and extra skill points.

usually im all for this, but magi value skills and feats, and dont require more than 2 good stats, which is why humans and half-elves are so good for them

on track, if your plan is to switch back and forth between one handing and two handing a weapon mid-round, do you even need to take proficiency with the bastard sword? what stinks is you need proficiency to get focus and specialization, but just to use it, you can just say that you are willing to take the negative for nonproficiency right? then as a free action grip it again

seems really cheesy, but legal

a STR Based magus is pretty MAD, which is why the dervish dance/dex magi are so popular.

the human double dip option is good for magus because it's so MAD.

You need good str, good int and decent dex and con.

So even with a 20 point build:
S 15 (17) D 14 C 14 I 14(16) W 10 Ch 8

it still carries quite a bit of importance. and with a 15 point build it would be even more important. I dont know of any other race combo that is going to add to both STR and INT, by the way.
A magus already has high int, and the extra +2 you are getting from the dual talent option is most likely going into INT anyway, so you dont even lose the skill point, you get it right back through int, so you are losing an extra feat, essentially, for not having to dump stats to get what you need out of a MAD class.


Pendagast wrote:
master_marshmallow wrote:
Matt2VK wrote:

Here's something completely different to think about -

If your DM allows, look at the human dual talent racial from the ARG.
While it costs you the human extra feat and the extra skill point, it does give you another +2 stat bump. Depending on your build and where you put that extra +2, it can be more then worth the loss of that feat and extra skill points.

usually im all for this, but magi value skills and feats, and dont require more than 2 good stats, which is why humans and half-elves are so good for them

on track, if your plan is to switch back and forth between one handing and two handing a weapon mid-round, do you even need to take proficiency with the bastard sword? what stinks is you need proficiency to get focus and specialization, but just to use it, you can just say that you are willing to take the negative for nonproficiency right? then as a free action grip it again

seems really cheesy, but legal

a STR Based magus is pretty MAD, which is why the dervish dance/dex magi are so popular.

the human double dip option is good for magus because it's so MAD.

You need good str, good int and decent dex and con.

So even with a 20 point build:
S 15 (17) D 14 C 14 I 14(16) W 10 Ch 8

it still carries quite a bit of importance. and with a 15 point build it would be even more important. I dont know of any other race combo that is going to add to both STR and INT, by the way.
A magus already has high int, and the extra +2 you are getting from the dual talent option is most likely going into INT anyway, so you dont even lose the skill point, you get it right back through int, so you are losing an extra feat, essentially, for not having to dump stats to get what you need out of a MAD class.

thats fair, i guess i always look at magi as needing the extra feat at lvl 1 because im so used to the dervish build, needing weapon finesse and piranha strike

so i will retract about versatile being not the best choice here, in fact, i think its one of the best races simply because its never bad to be able to pick 2 different stats to get bonuses to

doesnt change the fact that he has already played this character and needs to retcon it to make it legal, rather than designing a character from the ground up, and for that purpose i still vote pick a weapon to stick with and get weapon focus, so you spend less feats to get specialization later and still benefit from it early


Umm... Why Piranha Strike? It doesn't work with Dervish Dance.


Azaelas Fayth wrote:
Umm... Why Piranha Strike? It doesn't work with Dervish Dance.

Even if it did (ie Power Attack), I don't think I would take it. Extra damage is nice, but so is hitting. Plus lack of full BAB for the full damage benefit and it being questionable RAI if you really can two hand just by using a free action after casting with Spell Combat makes it iffy to me.


Spellcombat with arcane mark partialy negates. The bad bab like flurry doese with the monk so combat casting is a good low lvl feat but loses most of its potency at mid to high lvls depending if you have a good party tank/healer i would chose toughness or combat casting


Azaelas Fayth wrote:
Umm... Why Piranha Strike? It doesn't work with Dervish Dance.

EVERYTHING I ONCE KNEW ABOUT THIS GAME WAS A LIE!!!!!

but for real i thought it worked because its fineessable, since both feats require Weapon Finesse as a prereq, i thought they meshed together RAW

i suppose RAI you could say anything that you can use finesse on can be used with piranha strike, but it goes into house rule territory

this revealation makes me sad


master_marshmallow wrote:
Azaelas Fayth wrote:
Umm... Why Piranha Strike? It doesn't work with Dervish Dance.

EVERYTHING I ONCE KNEW ABOUT THIS GAME WAS A LIE!!!!!

but for real i thought it worked because its fineessable, since both feats require Weapon Finesse as a prereq, i thought they meshed together RAW

i suppose RAI you could say anything that you can use finesse on can be used with piranha strike, but it goes into house rule territory

this revealation makes me sad

Well, if you're a medium creature, you can still use a small-sized Scimitar as a Light Weapon, so I guess you could use Piranha strike with it.

The smaller damage die pales in comparisson to the Power Attack-ish effect of Piranha Strike.

Back on topic;

How about Defensive Combat Training? It increases your CMD and only gets better and better as the game goes. It's pretty useful against enemies with Grapple and Trip.

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I’m surprised at all of the suggestions here. I wasn’t expecting to get this many responses! My GM approved almost everything in this thread. FrinkiacVII is more than likely right in that eventually I want to get many of these -- the question is which to get now. I’ll go through the suggestions here, striking out some of them to narrow my choices.

Spoiler:

Arcane Strike: This has less appeal to me now. It's a great feat, but as mentioned, constant use of swift actions will get tedious.

Toughness: Many of you say this is a better choice for later rather than now. IT's also not a very exciting option, so I'll cross it out.

Improved Initiative: I'm glad that many of you agree that Improved Initiative wouldn't be that useful, but I also agree it's not a bad option. At the very least, I could spend my first turn buffing myself or an ally. I took many powerful illusion spells because our wizard had to take it as opposition. So, I'll be utilizing Vanish a lot. I could simply spend my first turn casting Vanish on myself and then get into spellstrike position. On the other hand, casting invisibility on myself before a fight is also a good idea, thus making improved init not as great.

Exotic Weapon Proficiency: It should be noted that heirloom weapon no longer gives EWP.
-> Bastard Sword - I'm on the fence about this one. The flavor of a character carrying a big sword while trying to convince people he's a wizard is fun. My fellow players like this idea (one mentioned a female character being very impressed). One player practically screamed in my face to take this feat when I brought it up. I'd also be willing to sacrifice a bit of crit range to go from a 1d6 to 1d10. However, many of you raise a good point. The flavor could be simulated by simply saying he carries an above average sized version of any other sword. Maybe his cultass was sized for a half-orc? I could make up a story where he bartared for the cutlass by teaching a half-orc sailor how to read and write.

-> Katana I'm so sick of katanas. In the game I GM, half the party uses katanas. Also, I can't picture my character having one.

-> Rhoka, etc... Good suggestions but all of them just increase my current weapon by one die step. Not much flavor appeal to me either.

Sunblade build Interesting idea, but I don't want to revolve my build around getting a single, specific type of magical sword.

Trip build I seriously considered a trip build around Kapenia Dancer. However, I decided against it sincemy character considers himself a caster first than a duelist. I do like leaning in the spell casting direction. Plus, he's not the type to knock someone down and beat them up.

Extra Arcane Pool: Many people suggested this even when I already have it. Having plenty of arcane points won't be useful until next level, but having a grand total of 10 points at 4th level means I can use Shocking Grasp freely and utilize good utility spells like Vanish and Precise Strike (or Arcane Accuracy).

Combat Casting: This is a good suggestion but I'm moreso leaning away from it. I always try to avoid situations that require concentration checks. I don't have many spells and when I reach level 4, I'll be utilizing vanish to position myself for devastating up-close spell combat/spellstrike attacks. Plus, from the game I GM, I have REALLY terrible concentration check luck, even when I have like a +10 to it. Since many are saying it's not as useful at later levels, this may be a good one to shy from.

Dual Talent Racial Trait: I can't believe I never noticed this before. This is actually a pretty fantastic idea! My GM cleared it, too. I could either round out my magus. Alternatively, I could bump my Int to 18 to keep my skill points, increase my arcane pool by 1, and get another 1st level spell. So far, this looks like the most attractive option simply because it gives me the chance to essentially have a little bit of everything I wanted from my choice of 1st level feats.

Adopted Racial Trait (to get Weapon Focus): This is another good idea, but I honestly can't think of a race that would conceivably have sword (or cutlass) familiarity, except maybe Tengu. However, I can't picture my character being raised by bird people. I'd probably have to cheese this to make it work.


oh just my lvl 5 Magus if you would like to see what dual talented can do :-)

Male Human Blade bound magus 5
CG Medium Humanoid (human)
Init +1; Senses Perception +5

Defense
AC 18, touch 11, flat-footed 17 (+1 Dex)
hp 44 (5d10+10+5)
Fort +6, Ref +2, Will +4
Offense
Speed 30 ft.
Attacks: scimitar +10/ 1d6+7(18-20 x2)
spell combat with spellstrike: Shocking grasp +8/+8 5d6 +1d6+5 (18-20/x2)/1d6+5(18-20/x2)
--------------------
--------------------
Statistics (+2 to two ability scores Alt racial dual talented 20 point buy)
--------------------
Str 20, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 18, Wis 10, Cha 7
Base Atk +3; CMB +8; CMD 19
Feats weapon Focus Scimitar, extra arcane pool, combat casting, intensified spell
Traits Family Ties(campaign), Magical Lineage
Languages: Common Giant Orc Infernal Sylvan
Equipment:
• +1 chain shirt (1250g)
• +2 scimitar Black blade
• Belt of giant Str +2 (4000g)
• 3 pearls of power (3000g)
• 6 potions of cure light wounds (300g)
• 1 potions of cure moderate wounds (300g)
• Explorer gear worth (75g)
• Wand of vanish (750g)
• Wand of shield (750g)
10425 of 10500

--------------------
spells known:
LVL1: Color Spray, Enlarge person, frostbite, grease, obscuring mist, reduce person, shield, Shocking grasp, true strike, unerring weapon, Vanish
LVL2: Bear’s endurance, frigid touch, Mirror image, web

Spells prepared:
lvl0: Detect magic, Ghost sound, Arcane mark , Read magic
lvl1: Shocking grasp X3, True strike, Vanish,
lvl2: Bear's endurance, Frigid touch, Mirror image


My Magus (Black Bladed archetype) first four feats were
Bastard Sword ... because it looked cool and I knew I had a Magic Bastard Sword coming.
Arcane Strike ... our DM runs a lot of attrition type scenarios. If you are doing a single hard fight a day where you can use your arcane pool each round this wont be useful.
Weapon focus (bastard sword) ... 3/4 BAB and -2 spell combat => you need every plus to hit you can get.
Extra Arcane Pool ... Your arcane pool powers everything you do more is better.

I played a Samsaran so had Touch of Fatigue as a zero level spell but if your DM doesnt allow Wizard Mark to initiate spell combat then consider Extra Arcana (Close Range).

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Hm...interesting Darkflame. I'll see what stats i can come up with for my magus and see if that's appealing. I'm leaning heavily with dual talented and EWP Bastard Sword. My GM says he'll give me one if I take that feat while the druid offers to turn it into a masterwork weapon.

Berdache, I can't take extra arcana at first level. Also, wizard spells can't be used for spell combat and spellstrike unless you have spell blending.


Quote:

Well, if you're a medium creature, you can still use a small-sized Scimitar as a Light Weapon, so I guess you could use Piranha strike with it.

The smaller damage die pales in comparisson to the Power Attack-ish effect of Piranha Strike.

This is true but then you are looking at an additional -2 penalty (on top of spellcombat -2 penalty, on top of piranah strike penalty). So while you CAN go this route I'd just issue a word of caution.

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