Really irksome thread locking.


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If you (moderators) are going to lock a thread, it would be nice if there were some indicator on the thread title. There is little more irritating than reading through 70+ posts on an issue one finds interesting, with an eye towards contributing to the conversation, only to reach the end and find that "the end" is one of you locking the thread.

I could have spent my time elsewhere -- and would have, had I known.

It would be MUCH preferable to have the thread ENTIRELY REMOVED rather than still dangling there with the new posts listed.

Your current methods waste your members' time; a fix for this would be awfully nice.

Sovereign Court

No, please don't remove entire threads, there are usually plenty of good ideas and comments in such a long thread until 1 comment gets it shut down.

Also, it's easy to tell if a thread has been locked. Look at any post in the thread. If you see a "Reply" button on it, you can reply in the thread. If that option is missing, it has been locked.

Paizo Employee PostMonster General

We don't remove threads entirely very often, generally only when there's nothing of merit anywhere in it, which means spam. The problem with little lock icons next to thread titles is that it draws attention to locked threads that they probably don't need.

I do what Samurai says, if there's no reply link then I know the thread is locked. But it's something that's tripped me up more than once, though, so you never know, we might come up with a visual indicator that's not too intrusive.


Maybe adding [thread locked] tag to its name?


I heard threads get locked because they couldn't handle the truth.


Samurai, Greg...

... well, that's at least a way to find out, so thanks.

But typically, I read through all the new messages before making any replies, since often whatever I think needs a reply gets handled, ninja'd, etc., by the time I've come back to a thread. Hence, not something I'd have noticed until reaching the end and finding the minimalist end-post "thread locked."

I would assert that a locked thread DOES need something to draw attention to the fact that it's locked: that is the basis, in fact, for my complaint.

Is this a deal-breaking end to my use of the messageboards? No, of course not. But it is indescribably-irritating to wander back into (or in for the first time) a thread, catch up on its content, and find out at the end that it's locked.

I'll make sure to start checking the reply feature. I STILL think it would be a nice, friendly gesture for the threads to have an obvious feature (Title in Red?) on the forum menu, to let me know I'd be wasting my time.


Cheeseweasel wrote:
Samurai, Greg...

Who's Greg??


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Talonhawke wrote:
Cheeseweasel wrote:
Samurai, Greg...
Who's Greg??

Gary's evil twin brother... He has a goatee, drives a Jaguar, and likes Nickleback.


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Gary Teter wrote:
The problem with little lock icons next to thread titles is that it draws attention to locked threads that they probably don't need.

Would it be a relatively simple thing to post a little warning message once you open a locked thread? (Like "Note: This thread has been locked by a moderator." in red along the top of the page or something?)

That way it wouldnt draw attention to the negative threads on the main forum, but would address the OP's concern, I think.


The 8th Dwarf wrote:
Talonhawke wrote:
Cheeseweasel wrote:
Samurai, Greg...
Who's Greg??
Gary's evil twin brother... He has a goatee, drives a Jaguar, and likes Nickleback.

Dear god I have a goatee and listen to Nickelback. I might have a good twin out there somewhere.

Paizo Employee PostMonster General

I'm pretty sure I'm the evil twin.

Not sure if a message at the very top of a page of posts will actually get noticed but it's less obtrusive than an indicator on the thread title in forum listings, so it's something to consider.

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

Change everyone's avatar to a smurf in the locked thread...


Uh, oops, there it is, "Gary," plain as day...

Steve, that would work for me; just something less-subtle than the lack of a reply button: my Noticer works better on additions than subtractions. But unless you get directed to the top of the page when you hit on the new posts link...

Eh. Honestly, if we're working from a "we don't want to draw attention to this thing" basis, I'd have to say dumping them entirely still wins.

Perhaps just create a "locked threads" archive and stuff them there, if there actually is a vein of information to mine from them.

I don't know.

If the top of every page has a notification, I wouldn't get too far into it, which would be an improvement.

I still can't get away from "if it's locked, why am I still able to open it up?"


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Cheeseweasel wrote:
I still can't get away from "if it's locked, why am I still able to open it up?"

Because the way these things usually happen is that a thread is relatively productive and useful for a while before half a dozen (or sometimes only two) people begin getting into a back-and-forth with posts along the lines of "please read my post", "dont put words in my mouth", "badwrongfun", "I never said that" and long, pointless arguments about what the other guy said (or worse what they meant) four pages back.

.
As Gary said - when a thread has no value at all, they tend to delete it. Those locked threads often have value in the first part, they just got derailed by two or more people refusing to let the other guy have the last word.

You can open it in case you're interested in the early, valuable bit. You just cant add to it because (unfortunately) someone was unable to refrain from being a jerk. :/


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Yar!

Samurai wrote:
there are usually plenty of good ideas and comments in such a long thread until 1 comment gets it shut down
Steve Geddes wrote:
You can open it in case you're interested in the early, valuable bit

Indeed.

A lot of great things get discussed in these message boards, by a lot of very intelligent and creative people. Whenever I'm curious about something, the first thing I do is use the Search feature to find similar topics to what I'm interested in to see what others have already said.

I don't need to be able to post in a thread to be able to read and learn about great ideas, rules clarifications, or the like. I just need to be able to read them. And many threads that get locked still have great ideas, clarifications, interesting discussion and the like within them.

If I could never access those posts ever again due to deletion, I'd probably spend a lot less time here in the first place. Some form of indication that the thread has been locked may be nice (in case half way through reading I get the urge to respond to something), but outright deleting it? No thanks.

~P

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

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*pokes head out* Ways to stop threads from being locked:

1. Don't be a jerk and post jerky things.

2. Don't respond to obviously jerky posts. Flag them, move on. Use anothermage's ignore script if you need help avoiding a repeat offender.

3. Respond only to the discourse-worthy parts of the discussion--be a part of the solution by making doing your part to make sure the conversation stays on the high ground.

4. Ban repeat offender jerks. I know that's a very very last resort policy for Paizo, but I'm all for a zero tolerance policy against the asshats who ruin these discussions for everyone else (especially when the jerkitude is fueled by hatred or prejudice). For example, if a poster's posts have contributed to a large number of threads being locked, maybe it's time to consider whether their contributions should continue to be welcome.

I definitely do not want to see locked threads deleted, but I would like to see a little lock symbol on threads that have been locked. Because they're locked, they will disappear soon enough as they are pushed down by new, active threads, so even if there is any attention drawn to them, there won't be for long. It's as likely--especially if it's of a potentially inflammatory subject matter--people are MORE likely to click on the thread to read it thinking they are going to be able to respond at the end--only to discover it has been locked. Besides, why does it matter if there's attention drawn to them? Is there an example of a situation where the little lock symbols caused some kind of trouble or trauma on a message board? They're locked, so it's not like they're going to cause any more trouble (and the people likely to start new threads on the same discussion are people who who likely participated in the thread to begin with). And again, they will disappear quickly.

Besides, if people do notice them more easily and see why they were locked, they can also see examples of why it is important to keep the tone of the conversation high, so attention drawn doesn't have to be a bad thing.

*flees again*

Scarab Sages

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DQ - you really make decent behavior sound easy...

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

feytharn wrote:
DQ - you really make decent behavior sound easy...

The irony being I've been avoiding most discussions here for a few weeks because at the moment I can't trust myself to keep cool. There've been far too many discussion that have been hitting all my berserk buttons so I've decided to lay low for awhile. Unfortunately since I am in active PBPs I still see the "new messages" feeder on the left side of the page when I check my PBPs so I get tempted to read new threads and just get ticked off all over again.

Ah... behaving well may not come easily (most certainly not to me), but to paraphrase Dumbledore, we are all constantly challenged to choose between what is easy and what is right. :)


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Oh, man o'man, I remember that time, in this discussion thread, when DQ made a post and she was all, like , "yes, people should be nice to other people," and I was like, "Oh, snapple," (or something like that, I'm kind of old), and there were, like, fifty or a hundred more comments attacking the validity of that statement and the thread got locked, and Liz Courts said we should all take it down a notch, and The Post Monster banned ninety seven accounts, it was brutal.*

*the preceding post may be a prevarication, and may be found to be "inconceivable" by some Sicilians.

Scarab Sages

Oh man, be careful with these reannual memories. Who knows what will happen if this won't come to be!


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DeathQuaker wrote:
feytharn wrote:
DQ - you really make decent behavior sound easy...

The irony being I've been avoiding most discussions here for a few weeks because at the moment I can't trust myself to keep cool. There've been far too many discussion that have been hitting all my berserk buttons so I've decided to lay low for awhile. Unfortunately since I am in active PBPs I still see the "new messages" feeder on the left side of the page when I check my PBPs so I get tempted to read new threads and just get ticked off all over again.

Ah... behaving well may not come easily (most certainly not to me), but to paraphrase Dumbledore, we are all constantly challenged to choose between what is easy and what is right. :)

I have used the hide thread button a lot just recently. To stop my self getting involved.

Liberty's Edge

DeathQuaker wrote:
The irony being I've been avoiding most discussions here for a few weeks because at the moment I can't trust myself to keep cool. There've been far too many discussion that have been hitting all my berserk buttons so I've decided to lay low for awhile. Unfortunately since I am in active PBPs I still see the "new messages" feeder on the left side of the page when I check my PBPs so I get tempted to read new threads and just get ticked off all over again.

That's how I keep winding up getting involved in various frustration inducing conversations... I should take Dwarf's suggestion and just hide some of these threads.

Please don't disappear for too long DQ. Your opinion is incredibly valuable! :)


I was wondering, and I know it is off topic, sort of, but here's my question. If Paizo, as a company, does not delete threads, out of hand, but chooses to take a position that the threads that have been locked may contain something of value, do they then have a long term plan for the storage of the data? I've always wondered if there is a "limit" to how much of this kind of online data a company will be willing to continue to keep paying for the storage of, and if they have set a future limit, that when reached, will necessitate the deletion of some of this material.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

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Terquem wrote:

Oh, man o'man, I remember that time, in this discussion thread, when DQ made a post and she was all, like , "yes, people should be nice to other people," and I was like, "Oh, snapple," (or something like that, I'm kind of old), and there were, like, fifty or a hundred more comments attacking the validity of that statement and the thread got locked, and Liz Courts said we should all take it down a notch, and The Post Monster banned ninety seven accounts, it was brutal.*

Apart from the part where Gary banned 97 people, I feel like this did already happen. :) (And I hope nothing ever gets so messy that 97 people end up being banned.)

As to the data storage, I think they toss old stuff onto an archive at some point, but the Post Monster will explain better.

Alice, thanks. :)

Paizo Employee PostMonster General

Data storage isn't really an issue. Even at our current pace of ~6,000 new posts every day it's still not that much raw text, even if you multiply it by some factor for for redundancy and overhead. So as long as the site is up the posts are there.

We used to have messageboards archives but that was mostly for navigation and performance—the posts have always been there, just not as easily accessed as now.


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Oh sure, you say that now, but

Ten years from now when Paizo is looking at transferring all this data to the new Bionematodic Organic Simnav Asymmetric Nervatron Orbital Virtual Amalgabank (the BOSA NOVA, Storage facility in their floating corporate headquarters off the coast of Washington) you’ll be wishing you deleted some of those “I can’t believe it’s not Dungeons & Dragons” threads, mark my words. On second thought, maybe you shouldn’t, you know, mark them, they’re rather silly after all.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Terquem wrote:

Oh sure, you say that now, but

Ten years from now when Paizo is looking at transferring all this data to the new Bionematodic Organic Simnav Asymmetric Nervatron Orbital Virtual Amalgabank (the BOSA NOVA, Storage facility in their floating corporate headquarters off the coast of Washington) you’ll be wishing you deleted some of those “I can’t believe it’s not Dungeons & Dragons” threads, mark my words. On second thought, maybe you shouldn’t, you know, mark them, they’re rather silly after all.

Indeed.

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