Witch advice


Advice


I'm expanding into some new classes that I don't have much experience with and at the moment I'm making my first witch. My concept was to initially make him a viable frontline fighter at those earlier levels which reward such and giving him the added bonus of a Slumber curse and a little coup de grace action. As the character evolved, he would turn into a buffer, de-buffer and healer, leaning heavily on curses rather than spells, in part so that he could comfortably wear heavy armor. As an aside the character would also be highly skilled.

The character will be taking 1 level of Witch, then four levels of Weapon Master Fighter to get in Weapon Training, Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization before going Witch the rest of the way. Since I'm taking Furious Focus I'm trying to decide if the Cornugon Smash/Dreadful carnage route would be a viable option despite my Charisma being so low - figure I could work in a skill Focus: Intimidate somewhere in there if I wanted to. Anything to help reduce those saving throws.

I'm very unfamiliar with feats for Witches - I assume there are no non-3PP feats that will increase the DC's of the Witch's Hex? I'm still trying to get my mind around the best way to use/augment/ignore my Witch's Familiar as well. Making use of Cackle, can I have multiple Hexes running - for instance, can I use Fortune on an ally one round, Cackle the next as a move action and put Misfortune on an enemy as a standard action, then use Cackle to perpetuate them both thereafter?

Any advice for additional feats or making changes would be most welcome as I learn more about the nuances of this class.

Spoiler:
Human 4th level Weapon Master (Scythe) / 16th level Witch

Attributes:
STR - 14
DEX - 12
CON - 12
INT - 18 (+2, +1 at 4th, 8th, 12th and 16th)
WIS - 8
CHA - 7 (+1 at 20th)

Traits:
Magical Knack
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Feats:
1st - Power Attack
1st - Arcane Strike
2nd - Weapon Focus
3rd - Accursed Hex
3rd - Weapon Focus: Scythe
4th - [Weapon Training +1]
5th - Weapon Specialization: Scythe
5th - Arcane Armor Training
6th - Hex - Fortune
7th - Arcane Armor Mastery
8th - Hex - Cackle
9th - Furious Focus
10th - Hex - Misfortune
11th - ???
12th - Hex - Evil Eye
13th - ???
14th - Major Hex - Retribution
15th - Split Hex
16th - Major Hex - Major Healing
17th - ???
18th - Major Hex - Healing
19th - ???
20th - Major Hex - Vision


The closest thing to a feat increasing the DC of a Witch's hex is the Ability Focus feat for monsters. You would have to ask your GM if it's ok to take.

Your familiar probably won't be doing much. It's your spellbook, you don't want him to get into danger (less so if you have a stone familiar magic item, but even then.) Familiars generally don't do much unless you take Improved Familiar.

As for your fortune example, if you mean fortune on an ally round 1, then cackle round 2, unless you are a level 8 witch, your fortune will wear off before round 2. However, yes, you can have multiple hexes running across multiple targets. You could misfortune BBEG #1, evil eye BBEG #2, fortune ally #3, and cackle to extend all of those. It does eat up your move action each turn, so getting a cackling blouse (or w/e it is in Ultimate Combat) will really help as it gives you a couple swift action cackles a day in case you REALLY need a move action.

If the fighter levels is just for reducing saves, I'd just stay pure witch. Multiclassing a caster usually isn't the best idea, and witch hexes only scale with witch levels. Do note that Evil Eye can reduce saves by 2 (4 at level 8) for at least a round even if they make their save, so you can cackle to extend it for next round. Something else that may irritate your GM (but I use anyways) is getting an improved familiar, boosting his UMD, and give him a Wand of Ill Omen so on your turn, your familiar can use the wand to make an enemy roll twice on the next roll (no save) and then misfortune them (they will have to roll twice and quite possibly fail.) Also work with your allies to reduce their saves more if you can.
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Hopefully this helps as you play the most awesome class in pathfinder*.

*My opinion. My witch in PFS just ruins encounters, and she actually tries to do no damage unless it's indirect IE vomit swarm or summon monster.


Marthian wrote:

If the fighter levels is just for reducing saves, I'd just stay pure witch. Multiclassing a caster usually isn't the best idea, and witch hexes only scale with witch levels. Do note that Evil Eye can reduce saves by 2 (4 at level 8) for at least a round even if they make their save, so you can cackle to extend it for next round. Something else that may irritate your GM (but I use anyways) is getting an improved familiar, boosting his UMD, and give him a Wand of Ill Omen so on your turn, your familiar can use the wand to make an enemy roll twice on the next roll (no save) and then misfortune them (they will have to roll twice and quite possibly fail.) Also work with your allies to reduce their saves more if you can.

The Fighter levels aren't intended to reduce saves at all - I'm taking them to 1) make myself a credible melee threat to compliment my hexes, 2) gain some additional survivability via Fort saves, hit points and heavy armor and 3) maximize the impact of my coups de grace (weapon training+gloves, weapon spec, etc.).

Could I Fortune an Ally as a standard, cackle as a move on round one then Misfortune an enemy as a standard and cackle as a move on round 2, sustaining them both?

I'm enjoying exploring this class right now and I could see a lot of different concepts emerging from it, but for this build I'm liking the 'gish' factor.


you could sustain both, provided you were within 30 feet of both your enemy and ally, and since you can't actually move more than 5 feet, that's usually the difficult part


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Alright, I just re-read the rules for Coups de Grace - I didn't realize that it required a Fort save on top of the critical damage, so I'm kind of re-working the concept now as all I really need seems to be Power Attack and a Scythe I don't even have profeciency in.

I'm thinking of going with a standard Tiefling now - Tieflings are legal now, aren't they? At any rate, this is the build I'm currently considering... it seems like Witches don't quite have the need for feats that so many other classes have, so I thought why not beef up the defense? The only question is whether or not Armor of the Pit/Improved Armor is a better use for those slots than Toughness and the saving throw boosters...

Tiefling 20th level Witch

Attributes:
STR - 14
DEX - 12 (+2)
CON - 14
INT - 16 (+2, +1 at 4th, 8th, 12th and 16th)
WIS - 12
CHA - 7 (-2, +1 at 20th)

Feats & Hexes:
1st - Hex - Slumber
1st - Power Attack
2nd - Hex - Healing
3rd - Armor of the Pit
4th - Hex - Fortune
5th - Accursed Hex
6th - Hex - Cackle
7th - Improved Natural Armor
8th - Hex - Misfortune
9th - Improved Natural Armor
10th - Major Hex - Retribution
11th - Split Hex
12th - Major Hex - Major Healing
13th - Improved Natural Armor or Toughness
14th - Major Hex -----
15th - Improved Natural Armor or Great Fortitude
16th - Major Hex -----
17th - Improved Natural Armor or Lightning Reflexes
18th - Major Hex -----
19th - Improved Natural Armor or Iron Will
20th - Major Hex - Vision

Thoughts?


Would the Elven racial trait Dreamspeaker increase the DC of a Slumber Hex?

Liberty's Edge

Can't get PA at first, your BAB is not sufficient.

Seriously, witches are NOT front line fighters. Ever. Under any circumstances.

Trying to make one is going to be a lesson in frustration and quick death.


Damocles Guile wrote:
Would the Elven racial trait Dreamspeaker increase the DC of a Slumber Hex?

Depends on the GM.

Silver Crusade

If you want to be a melee hex user. Magus (Hex Blade) it gives you the combat ability, and spells you are looking. On top of that You will need to focus on Str, or Dex. Then you only need a few points in Int to cast spells. Focusing on spells that don't have saves. If your going to stay focused on Int. You are much better off as a witch, and staying away from combat.


Take a look at the Half-Orc Scarred Witch Doctor.. Con as ur caster stat is redic good.. In a RotRl camp a buddy has a 12th level one and with just false life he has more hp than my 16con dwarf ranger with fac class bonus to hp.. Natural Armor bonus is just gravy.. Make sure to take accursed hex.. Ability focus: Slumber is kinda cheese, but if ur gm is ok with it by all means..


Low BAB classes don't work well on the front line. You will die quickly barring extreme luck or GM Fiat.


Alright, yeah - I didn't know what the heck I was doing. For some reason I had it in my head that Witches were partial casters like Bards or Summoners and for that reason I never gave it much of a look (being rather fond of Bards and Summoners already)... I have to say, reconsidering the Witch as a class, I'm coming away very, very impressed and already juggling a handful of angles for the build I want to make. I like Tiefling for the class a lot, but not every campaign allows them, so right now I'm defaulting to either Elf or Human as my race of choice... I'm also trying to decide between focusing on Necromancy spells (Blindness/Deafness and Suffocation being two big draws) or to build it as a character - a method of dealing with mooks for a class who already has so many ways to deal with bosses. I'll post again when I've got it locked down, but again any suggestions or advice is welcome.


WerePox47 wrote:
Take a look at the Half-Orc Scarred Witch Doctor.. Con as ur caster stat is redic good.. In a RotRl camp a buddy has a 12th level one and with just false life he has more hp than my 16con dwarf ranger with fac class bonus to hp.. Natural Armor bonus is just gravy.. Make sure to take accursed hex.. Ability focus: Slumber is kinda cheese, but if ur gm is ok with it by all means..

I've found the class for Orcs but not for half-orcs... where should I look?


The scarred witch doctor still is not a front liner. Don't do it(not as a front liner anyway), and it really is for orcs only, unless the GM feels like being nice. Slumber is not cheese, but it is good. Just make sure your GM is ok with it.

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