Hello all, I've been playing pathfinder for years, and 3.5 before that. We are starting a new campaign, with a player as GM so that our regular GM can play for a change. The group is full of power gamers, and I have read Trentmonk's guide along with several others to see what I could get out of the druid class. Looking at the feat selection and abilities, makes it look so boring that for the first time I am not excited to play him. I know there is potential, but I don't know how to make it shine. Can anyone help?
Build- I have a very generous 30 point buy. Str(17+2), DEX(14), CON(14), INT(12), WIS (14), CHA(10) was my starting point. We are starting at 2nd level and ending 10~ish. I have a saurian shaman, with a Deinonychus companion ,both focused on melee. I have access to all official material, and splat books pending review, but no third party and no 3.5.
My first build involving style feats got scrapped because if the Natural attack/ unarmed attack discrepancy in the rules. My current build looks like this:
1-dodge
1(human)-Improved iniative
3-Power attack
5- (Gm decided natural spell was just a feat tax for druids, so I get natural spell for free)
7- Improved natural attack (Bite)
9- Powerful shape
9(druid bonus)- Vital strike
The setting is similar to Kingmaker, with a switch hitter ranger and a 'dirty trick' fighter as the other PCs. I want to be melee focused, so I am trying to avoid the Augment summoning feats. Any suggestions will be appreciated.
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I made my druid a kobold with the tail terror feat, and a crocodile animal companion. I then trained the crocodile for riding, and gave the druid ride skill ranks. So far he's been a combat beast, using buff spells, and the crocodile mount to a crazy advantage. He also crafts traps so when are the ambushers, we start off on a good foot.
Best advice I have, and it looks like you already have done so, is to look at your animal companion as another character and build him accordingly. You'd be surprised how many players forget that the companion can be a total melee monster in its own right.
Thank you for the suggestion Steven. Due to the setting I won't be able to replace my dino animal companion until later levels if he does die. He currently has light armor prof. and weapon focus (talon).
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Hmmm... I don't know that you would need to replace the dino, he could become very powerful.
My croc has light armor prof. and the scent feat which lets him track, I think. He bite attack is quite nasty. I would think a dino would be even more awesome.
I think the build you have going is going to quite nasty, I like it.
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Heres one way:
Wildshape into small bird. Fly up. Wildshape into a blue whale (or some such huge beasty). Fall. Kill bad guys. Have cleric bring you back.
As for your current build, its good, but I would consider taking toughness for your 5th level feat since you seem to have an empty slot. Always good to have more HP, and it seems like you pretty much have your offense covered. Either that or Augment Summoning, cause, you know, summons could always be better, and its a stepping stone to Superior Summoning, which is pretty pimp.
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I think that in the end, what makes druid shine is the wild-shape potentials, and the very exciting spell-list that druids have. Focus on buffing you, your compatriot, and your power-gamer buddies, and then, simply smash everything.
If you're worried about your abilities not being terribly interesting; find some sort of RP reason to make them interesting to you. Though, I don't know how much your group RPs with a bunch of power gamers...
As an aside, Trentmonk's guides are -very- good, and I would honestly always have them open when you play. I know I do, when I'm learning how to play a new class.
I can't afford the feral combat training just to make use of claw attacks, especially when not all wild shapes have claws. That is one trouble I have had with feats, trying to decide what still functions in wild shape. While there is a vague lie between unarmed strikes and natural attacks, is there any precedent that says that you have to be humanoid to use style feats, even for the passive abilities? Dragn style charge ability, for instance.
The closest concept I can think of is that you can still act defensively while wild shaped. In that context you can chose what method you use to approach combat, it is flimsy, but I don't see why an intelligent creature, trained in a martial art couldn't employ it to make his animal form more effective. Is there a better way to sell it to my GM?
Normally in pathfinder I do not see any reason to multiclass, but there is some potential in taking a dip into monk, possibly master of many styles. Cons- lose 1 bab, a level of casting, HD for animal companion, and held back a level in wild shape (though the archetype makes up for that somewhat). Pro- IUS, stunning fist, bonus feat, WIS bonus to AC in wild shape.
I've been running a dino shaman in a castaways/land of the lost campaign.
We did it a little different- since there were no dinos back home, I was regular wildshaper til 6th level when I switched to dino shaman after "attuning " myself to the land, but I never recieved the archetype abilities gained before 6th.
Here's some input from my experiences,
With dino shaman, you won't get wild shape till 6th, so you will spend what seems like a looong time waiting for it.
In the meantime, Shillelagh is your friend.
You have:
1-dodge
1(human)-Improved iniative
3-Power attack
5- (Gm decided natural spell was just a feat tax for druids, so I get natural spell for free)
7- Improved natural attack (Bite)
9- Powerful shape
9(druid bonus)- Vital strike
Wild speech at 7th allows you to conserve wild shape uses as you will not have to end its duration to talk to the party.
Powerful shape pretty much only effects manuvers, usually only giving a bonus of + 1 or 2 and working with size limits on grapple.
I used different shapes for different battles and couldn't convince myself to put feats into one type of atack, so I avoided weapon focus completely and didn't want to sepend a feat on the improved nat attack, which pretty much gives a + 1 to damage.
I'd take wild speech at 7th, skipping improved attack.
I took the feat Quick Wild Shape at 9th.
Quick Wild Shape
You sacrifice power for speed in changing form.
Prerequisites: Wild shape class feature, caster level 8th.
Benefit: You can wild shape as a move action or a swift action. However, you are limited to forms available to a druid two levels lower when changing form as a move action, or four levels lower as a swift action.
I reccomend toughness as soon as possible, maybe bumping dodge till 5th.
My two main problems were AC and action economy- I wanted a round or two to buff before fights and didn't usually get them.
Extend will help with that, making your buffs last longer.
Anything to help AC will be a life saver.
You're a front liner and can expect to be a large target most of the time.
You might want to go the UMD and wand route for Mage Armor and Shield. Potions also work.
You may need to tailor your build to your GM.
Does he like one big bad or small evil parties?
That can make significant differences in your build requirements.
It looks like you are the only caster, so that may make a major difference in your play as well.
Remember, you are a full caster, even if focused on wild shapeing.
A monk dip will delay your wild shape even further and your AC bonus from Wis is only 2.
IUS is good for opening access to other feats, which you don't have space for.
Taking up to 4 levels of Monk would not increase the BAB drop but would give a few more feats -at the cost of even more delay to wild shape.
Good Luck.
Thank you for the input niel, though I should point out that unlike the terrain druids, non of the shamans lose their level 4 wild shape, the only change is after 6th where you can take a minus 2 (going back to effective level 4) for non shaman themed creatures. The effective level just jumps to 8 at level 6. Taking a level of monk does not interfere with any feat prerequisites, and at level 7 I would still be wild shaping (into huge dinosaurs) as an 8th level caster. Or take shaping focus (seems like a waist of a feat for a one level dip, and keep my wild shape on track.
LazarX I appreciate the input, but I have been stuck at the party caster for the last two campaigns, I am going to build a melee brute, and if they can't survive on their own they can reroll a healer. THough craft magic arms and armor might not be a bad choice for my companion and I.
Atarlost, that is a sexy heap of suggestion, though I still need to convince my GM that I can use dragon style while in a non-humanoid shape.
LazarX for your second post, I am playing the Saurian druid because in king maker we needed a meat shield. SO I build a cavalier with the consent that I could upgrade to a triceratops mount. When the time came the GM backed out and I ended up,
As for the Wild shape, I don't need a flame war, If you have errata I'd love to see a link. But from RAW, and the table at PFSRD, there is no mention of totem transformation or anything else changing, replacing, or eliminating wild shape at level 4. Wild shape itself doesn't improve at 5th level, aside an extra hour per day, that may or may not be affected by the level adjustment.
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If you want Style Feats as a feral natural weapon focused Druid,
Feral Combat Training (Combat)
You were taught a style of martial arts that relies on the natural weapons from your racial ability or class feature.
Prerequisites: Improved Unarmed Strike, Weapon Focus with selected natural weapon.
Benefit: Choose one of your natural weapons. While using the selected natural weapon, you can apply the effects of feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite, as well as effects that augment an unarmed strike.
Special: If you are a monk, you can use the selected natural weapon with your flurry of blows class feature.
From Ultimate Combat.
Also, Planar Wild Shape is a good one for druids who want a little Energy Resist, SR, and DR.
The issue around the companion isn't the archetype, but rather a lack of dinosaurs in the setting.
I agree on the style feat, but the argument can be made that it is a martial arts style, and thematically they were not intended for non- humanoids. Most require unarmed attacks, or free hands. Monkey moves gives you a relatively slow climb speed, not intended for a T-rex, or stegosaurus. Thematic arguments hold more clout then RAW in our group.
roleplay.
If you feel you must create a special snowflake to avoid some stigma against more common builds, then do so--but not at the cost of weighing the party down.
EDIT: If you're looking to make a unique build due to some inspiration somewhere, then by all means, go ahead--creativity is great.
