Goblin Squad Member
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People keep talking about mountains in their various ideas, but there doesn't appear to be any near the part of the River Kingdoms where we'll be playing. Some are also hoping for large-scale naval battles, but our rivers cross into NPC nations before they reach larger bodies of water. I thought it might be helpful to collect some links to maps people can reference.
This is a hex map of the starting area with roads and locations drawn in:
PFO starting hexes.
Note the Mosswater ruins along the river, hex 220002. That will be a good reference point for other maps.
This small map shows the RK as a whole, with a red rectangle outlining the area the previous map covers.
GW blog map of the RK
People with better vision might be able to read 'Mosswater' inside the rectangle.
Here's a better map of the RK as a whole:
Kingmaker Map
Look in the upper left and note the Mosswater ruins. As you can see, PFO is likely to spread east and south, unless the devs want to put in a lot of PVE content as we try to invade Ustalav across the river to the west. Razmiran is ruled by a crazy cult, and it blocks access to Lake Encarthan, a great lake/inland sea which is the nearest large body of water. Numeria to the north is rather wild and poorly-controlled around the edges, but it also has space-age constructs which may not fit the flavour GW wants to present. Kyonin is a good elven nation, and Galt & Brevoy are in chaos, but are also likely to be well out of reach for years.
Here's a fun map of Avistan & northern Garund (roughly analogous to Europe and northern Africa):
'Google Map' of Golarion
If you click on the 'Castle Urion' link on the lower right 'Sites' list, the map will find the area of the RK that we'll be starting in. This map does indicate a few mountains to the eastern edge of the RK, (bordering Brevoy), but it would likely take years of expansions for our playable area to expand that far!
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Goblin Squad Member
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People keep talking about mountains in their various ideas, but there doesn't appear to be any near the part of the River Kingdoms where we'll be playing. Some are also hoping for large-scale naval battles, but our rivers cross into NPC nations before they reach larger bodies of water. I thought it might be helpful to collect some links to maps people can reference.
The question that comes to my mind is the balance on the map with a full forest on the right and the river on the left. I wonder if ships come in, then we see a pattern of preferential Hex development?
Also at some point a gradients (contours) map would be nice. Maybe no full Mountain Range but certainly some interesting geographical features and eg highlands, ridges, escarpments, deep gauges from relief and higher rainfall?
I recall a thread talking about trade, combat and all the things that a river, or lake could bring to PFO. I'm really interested in this, so I got to looking at a few maps. One map is this one - Map on this map, if you look at the legend, it's split into 8 sections, each section is like 52 miles long, so if the Devs wanted to, there's no reason they couldn't have rivers in the game that don't show up on the map with the explanation that they are more tributaries then actual named rivers.
For that matter I wouldn't mind seeing a lake or two tossed into the games area with a few islands located throughout. Perhaps one would have the room to construct, if not a settlement,then a guard tower or other structure. Having pirates, transportation, mobs, maybe even people who live their lives on the water like the river people in Asia. I think there are so many options if you have navigable waterways I'd hate to see it unused.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Our little corner of Golarion on the crusader road is actually almost in Numeria. Fort Riverwatch is actually a southern outpost of the Knights of Iomedae from Castle Urion. The area has been described as a staging point for those traveling to the worldwound to fight the demons and devils there. However, it is far enough away from Starfall and Silver Mount to avoid the ultra-tech elements if GW decides to do so.
As for naval combat, the Sellen River is very wide, and should be more than large enough for naval battles. There were acient naval battles on the Tigris and Euphrates, the Nile, and more modern battles on the Mississippi and Ohio rivers in the Civil War. More trade goes on the Sellen than on the River road, so there should be opportunity for river pirates as well.
I agree that mountains are far away, with the closest being next to Carrion Hill in Ustalav.
As for naval combat, the Sellen River is very wide, and should be more than large enough for naval battles. There were acient naval battles on the Tigris and Euphrates, the Nile, and more modern battles on the Mississippi and Ohio rivers in the Civil War. More trade goes on the Sellen than on the River road, so there should be opportunity for river pirates as well.
I agree that mountains are far away, with the closest being next to Carrion Hill in Ustalav.
Yea, the Mississippi was the river I was thinking about when I was typing about battles, trade and river people. It's wide enough to allow for all that. During the colonization period, between say the 1700's up until the late 1800's the Mississippi was a lot deeper then it is now. It wasn't uncommon for 500-600lb. Catfish and huge (8-10 foot) sturgeon to be caught by fishermen. So a river of that size can easily handle water born creatures :D
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Goblin Squad Member
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I have written a paper (mostly for my own planning purposes) what I think the first big land expansion will look like, and it is likely an expansion to the north and east.
However, I hope one future expansion includes the Western area of Ustalav, as the races, dieties, and geography all lend themselves very well to the PFO theme. One of my mains will be a Dwarf, and there is precious little mountainous terrain in the River Kingdoms. I'd love to see a western expansion in the future.
Which leads me to ask "What are the plans for future land expansion? More of the River Kingdoms? An expansion to the north through Numeria (since the Crusaders are heading north to the World Wound)? West to Ustalav?
It would be nice to get some idea...might be a little too early, but the starting area seems really small. Still glad I don't have to paint it though.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Which leads me to ask "What are the plans for future land expansion? More of the River Kingdoms? An expansion to the north through Numeria (since the Crusaders are heading north to the World Wound)? West to Ustalav?
I asked this some time ago. I don't think they've given any further information since then. I think it will stay in the River Kingdoms for the foreseeable future.
From Goblinworks Blog: RESPECT: Find Out What It Means to Me!:
1. Can you tell us in which direction the map is likely to expand?It will not grow into the surrounding nations, at least not on any timeframe we're thinking about.
The question becomes: Do we want a contiguous map, or do we want to have a patchwork map connected by some kind of gates? There are merits to both, and frankly I'm not going to worry about it much until I get 256 Crusader Road hexes figured out first. :)