What are some of the more useful spells to have prepped for PFS play


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The Exchange 5/5

Finlanderboy wrote:

To decipher an arcane magical writing (such as a single spell in another's spellbook or on a scroll), a character must make a Spellcraft check (DC 20 + the spell's level). If the skill check fails, the character cannot attempt to read that particular spell again until the next day. A read magic spell automatically deciphers magical writing without a skill check. If the person who created the magical writing is on hand to help the reader, success is also automatic.

Since you can fail not take 20

Sorry - this is not correct. Failure has nothing to do with Take 20.

You can try to pick a lock with Disable device - and if you fail, you can try it again in 1d4 rounds. Since you can retry this you CAN take 20. (You might fail all 20 times, if your DD is a +9 and the lock is DC30).
.
Take 20 basicly assumes you fail at least 19 times! That's why it takes 20 times as long - you are doing it 20 times and failing 19 of them (also the 20th if a die result of "20" gives you a skill check below the DC needed).

4/5

Hayato Ken wrote:
What if you put it (the mudball spell, not the goblin) on a page of spell knowledge?

you would still need access to the goblin race, by cert(organized play) or >reasonable< method (as you are now in the GM's gray area territory). That's why I chose Magic Jar, as your are (in) a goblin and the spell doesn't restrict their natural trait of being a goblin. Shapechange would be another candidate but that's 9th level spell and above 12th level casters. The polymorph/alter self spells say you assume the form of a humanoid type, but it does not address subtype. It also worryingly adds that if the form you choose has a laundry list of abilities, you get just those. So the low level polymorph school really isn't much help. The more specific polymorphs are, but not the general ones.

Page of Spell Knowledge says, "...and has that spell on her class spell list, she may use her spell slots to cast that spell as if it were one of her spells known."
I'm sure something of the sort as "you cannot learn this spell if you are not a goblin" was used. So if you can't learn it, it's not a far leap to say it is not on your class spell list. Most GMs will take that conservative opinion.
Perhaps someday, there will be a feat like Elf Blood that is accepted into org play so you can qualify to be a goblin.
Personally, goblins use human spells so why the reverse isn't allowed IDK... but that's just my opinion.

Scarab Sages 4/5

2 people marked this as a favorite.

As a wizard myself, I've been through a little, and learned a lot of what's useful.

Slow - Got a 100 armed enemy you have to fight? Their 100 attacks are now just one, and they can either move or attack, and they are at -1 to their one attack, and -1 to Reflex saves. (Just make sure they can't pounce you)

Blindness/Deafness - Got a ranged character you're fighting? Permanently disable them with this spell. Harpies? Give your fighter immunity to their Harpy song.

Communal Resist Energy - Wow, this is a good spell. Fighting something with an area of effect? Make them cry as you become resistant to their energy type. Those dragons didn't know what was coming.

Haste - Want to deal damage? One of the best damage dealing spells there is.

Emergency Force Sphere - About to die? Stop it entirely.

Wall of Ice/Stone - Got tons of enemies? Separate them and fight two easier battles.

Silent Image - Why not make a "Wall of Stone" or "Create Pit" at level 1? "Obscuring Mist" made with silent image causes all sorts of chaos, although this spell really it can depend on your GM.

Dimension Door - Get out of jail free....or....Bring your fighter with you to the enemy wizard.

Fickle Winds (Wind Wall) - Archers? Swarms? No problem!

See Invisibility - When paired with glitterdust, this little gem can foil anything invisible. It's just so obvious!

Ear piercing scream - It's magic missile with a save for half (...basically). If they fail, they are also dazed for one round. Amazing!

Magic Missile - I hit you (unless you have shield).

Feather Fall - I didn't die from that fall, really!

Liberating Command - You're free! With grease, you're even more free!

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Captain, Texas—Waco

Yurius Papers wrote:
We have a cleric in our group who constantly readies silence spells for nasty spellcasters (casting it at their feet; no save and ruining the spell they were getting ready to cast).

Unfortunately, casters cannot ready Silence. You can only ready a standard action, and Silence has a casting time of one round, the same as Summon Monster, Sleep, etc.

Scarab Sages 4/5

Stephen Ross wrote:
you would still need access to the goblin race, by cert(organized play) or >reasonable< method (as you are now in the GM's gray area territory). That's why I chose Magic Jar, as your are (in) a goblin and the spell doesn't restrict their natural trait of being a goblin. Shapechange would be another candidate but that's 9th level spell and above 12th level casters. The polymorph/alter self spells say you assume the form of a humanoid type, but it does not address subtype. It also worryingly adds that if the form you choose has a laundry list of abilities, you get just those. So the low level polymorph school really isn't much help. The more specific polymorphs are, but not the general ones.

Ah, but what about a Ring of Spell Knowledge?

Ring of Spell Knowledge:
This ring comes in four types: ring of spell knowledge I, ring of spell knowledge II, ring of spell knowledge III, and ring of spell knowledge IV. All of them are useful only to spontaneous arcane spellcasters.

Through study, the wearer can gain the knowledge of a single spell in addition to those allotted by her class and level. A ring of spell knowledge I can hold 1st-level spells only, a ring of spell knowledge II 1st- or 2nd-level spells, a ring of spell knowledge III spells of 3rd level or lower, and a ring of spell knowledge IV up to 4th-level spells.

A ring of spell knowledge is only a storage space; the wearer must still encounter a written, active, or cast version of the spell and succeed at a DC 20 Spellcraft check to teach the spell to the ring. Thereafter, the arcane spellcaster may cast the spell as though she knew the spell and it appeared on her class’ spell list.

Arcane spells that do not appear on the wearer’s class list are treated as one level higher for all purposes (storage and casting).

So for the low cost of 6,000 gold for a Type II ring (to get a 1st level spell not on your list in a second level spell slot) and witnessing a goblin cast Mudball in game, it's can be yours, yes? Or do you still need the boon?

Now as to whether or not it's worth 6,000gp and all the trouble...


Some of my personal favorites at the moment are

1st
Ear Piercing Scream (almost nothing has resistance to sonic)
Magic Missile (it's boring but hurts anything that doesn't have a shield)
Polypurpose Panacea (take a trip without becoming addicted!)

2nd
Acid Arrow (no save and no SR, so it will hurt most things)
Create Treasure Map (now you don't have to capture him alive to find where the macguffin is)
Pilfering Hand (is the archer murdering your group from the balcony? see how well he does without his bow)
Silence (cast it on the invisible rogue and just tell him to follow around the enemy spellcaster so he stays hidden)
Summon Monster II (if you have learned the elemental languages, there is just so much you can have those little guys do for you)

3rd
Chain of Perdition (making people trip and moving them around with your mind is just so much fun)
Eruptive Pustules (just the looks you get when you say you are casting it makes it worthwhile)

Grand Lodge 2/5 RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Kydeem de'Morcaine wrote:
Pilfering Hand (is the archer murdering your group from the balcony? see how well he does without his bow)

But the archer is probably going to have a pretty solid CMD. No, you use this on the wizard's spell component pouch or the cleric's holy symbol. ;)

Silver Crusade 2/5

I find that anything that grants a fly speed is pretty game changing. Granted, fly takes extra skill to utilize efficiently in PFS, but its well worth it. Access to fly trivializes so many encounters.

Liberty's Edge 1/5

Someone already mentioned it, but Aqueous Orb is great. It is also a signature spell for one of my PFS characters. I'm also a big fan of Web. Both spells just mentioned don't have to worry about spell resistance either, though they might make some fights more difficult depending on the situation.

Animate rope is really fun too! But harder to make happen in Pathfinder compared to D&D edition 3.5 (with the right materials you could actually tie up a ghost (it also doesn't have to deal with spell resistance).

Edit- Want some offense? Stone Call is pretty nice, the damage never increases but it also doesn't worry about spell resistance. Also prevents enemies charging you for the round in which it was cast.

4/5

Kurt S wrote:
We have a cleric in our group who constantly readies silence spells for nasty spellcasters (casting it at their feet; no save and ruining the spell they were getting ready to cast).

Then you have someone misusing the silence spell.

First of all, it has a Will save to negate.
Secondly, casting time is one round. I.e. not a standard action, thus cannot be readied.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/silence

Shadow Lodge 4/5

My understanding is that it is only a Will Save (at all) if you target them with it. If you target yourself or an item or a space, and they happen to be in the area, they get no save at all.

4/5

"Devil's Advocate" wrote:
My understanding is that it is only a Will Save (at all) if you target them with it. If you target yourself or an item or a space, and they happen to be in the area, they get no save at all.

By that logic, I could cast shatter three inches in front of your belt buckle, and you'd lose every potion you owned that was contained in non-magical objects of crystal, glass, ceramic, or porcelain. Then we'd go to work on your alchemical items. No save. No nothing.

I think a save is warranted.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

Silence:

School illusion (glamer); Level bard 2, cleric 2

Casting Time 1 round

Components V, S

Range long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)

Area 20-ft.-radius emanation centered on a creature, object, or point in space

Duration 1 round/level (D)

Saving Throw: Will negates; see text or none (object); Spell Resistance: yes; see text or no (object)

Upon the casting of this spell, complete silence prevails in the affected area. All sound is stopped: Conversation is impossible, spells with verbal components cannot be cast, and no noise whatsoever issues from, enters, or passes through the area. The spell can be cast on a point in space, but the effect is stationary unless cast on a mobile object. The spell can be centered on a creature, and the effect then radiates from the creature and moves as it moves. An unwilling creature can attempt a Will save to negate the spell and can use spell resistance, if any. Items in a creature's possession or magic items that emit sound receive the benefits of saves and spell resistance, but unattended objects and points in space do not. Creatures in an area of a silence spell are immune to sonic or language-based attacks, spells, and effects.

For creatures, SR and a Save only apply if they are the actual target of the spell, not if they just happen to be in it's area.

That being said, I think if everyone in the area got a Save, it would really complicate things way too much. If Person A makes the save, and B fails, can person B still hear person A? Can person A, (who made it and is thus not affected) hear person B who failed? If Monster fails, is person A now affeted by their sonic blast or not?

Grand Lodge 1/5

For the divine:
Lvl 1 - Bless, because it makes everyone a little better which rocks at lvl. 1-2.

Lvl 2 - Lesser Restoration, always keep 2 of these chambered. Having a spell that will make a night march bearable by the melee characters. Or if they get fatigued.

Lvl 3 - Prayer (see every post above, but it makes Bless look like a poor man's Prayer)

Silver Crusade 2/5

"Devil's Advocate" wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

For creatures, SR and a Save only apply if they are the actual target of the spell, not if they just happen to be in it's area.

That being said, I think if everyone in the area got a Save, it would really complicate things way too much. If Person A makes the save, and B fails, can person B still hear person A? Can person A, (who made it and is thus not affected) hear person B who failed? If Monster fails, is person A now affeted by their sonic blast or not?

Yep. No saves v. silence cast on a point in space. But the enemy caster can move out of the area! (If you try to cast it on anything held / worn by the enemy, he gets a saving throw: see below.)

Silence

PRD wrote:

Casting Time 1 round

Components V, S
Range long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)
Area 20-ft.-radius emanation centered on a creature, object, or point in space
Duration 1 round/level (D)
Saving Throw: Will negates; see text or none (object); Spell Resistance: yes; see text or no (object)

Upon the casting of this spell, complete silence prevails in the affected area. All sound is stopped: Conversation is impossible, spells with verbal components cannot be cast, and no noise whatsoever issues from, enters, or passes through the area. The spell can be cast on a point in space, but the effect is stationary unless cast on a mobile object. The spell can be centered on a creature, and the effect then radiates from the creature and moves as it moves. An unwilling creature can attempt a Will save to negate the spell and can use spell resistance, if any. Items in a creature's possession or magic items that emit sound receive the benefits of saves and spell resistance, but unattended objects and points in space do not. Creatures in an area of a silence spell are immune to sonic or language-based attacks, spells, and effects.

The shatter example doesn't quite work because worn items are considered "attended." See here:

PRD wrote:
(object): The spell can be cast on objects, which receive saving throws only if they are magical or if they are attended (held, worn, grasped, or the like) by a creature resisting the spell, in which case the object uses the creature's saving throw bonus unless its own bonus is greater [...] A magic item's saving throw bonuses are each equal to 2 + 1/2 the item's caster level.

And, more to the point, Shatter used as an area effect does not affect attended objects:

PRD wrote:
Used as an area attack, shatter destroys nonmagical objects of crystal, glass, ceramic, or porcelain. All such unattended objects within a 5-foot radius of the point of origin are smashed into dozens of pieces by the spell.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

Yup, the only spell that affects attended items without save is Burning Disarm. The save is to drop the item without being burnt. I frankly dislike this spell for somehow ignoring the need to require the initial save.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

@ Joe M. - yah, that's what I pointed out in the spoiler above, I agree.

@ Will J. - Actually, while the spell loses usefulness very quickly, I though that was a really good way to design a spell. Comparred to Heat Metal, it seems useful, as in that people would willingly choose to use it. It's also a spell that has some affect either way, though both are minor, which I think all spells should. It's a little bit worse than Burning Hands for damage (only affects 1 target and is limited by needing to be metal). (off topic) At some point, I think that PF needs to redo and rethink the way spells work and the spells by class, and I really hope that they incorporate more things like this into them in general.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

I'm just unclear why heat metal -- and nearly every other spell that modifies attended items -- requires a save to affect a person's sword, but Burning Disarm does not.

IMO, Burning Disarm should require a save to affect the weapon and then grant another save to permit the wielder to drop the weapon without taking damage.

5/5 5/55/55/5

Oh, add charm person to the list. A lot of npcs are immune to diplomacy. And sometimes diplomacy fails.


"Devil's Advocate" wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

For creatures, SR and a Save only apply if they are the actual target of the spell, not if they just happen to be in it's area.

That being said, I think if everyone in the area got a Save, it would really complicate things way too much. If Person A makes the save, and B fails, can person B still hear person A? Can person A, (who made it and is thus not affected) hear person B who failed? If Monster fails, is person A now affeted by their sonic blast or not?

Silence is an Illusion (glammer) and follows the rules for such. Saves are applicable as some people can be deluded when others aren't (case in point). Its not transmutation, evocation or even quasi real!

Also 1 round casting.

Liberating command is good for casting on others with escape artist but seeing its a concentration check (if your grappled) and then an escape artist roll its pretty useless to save yourself or a fighter who has no ranks in escape artist!!

Burning Disarm + Elemental Spell + Rime Spell + Oracle (water) with freezing spells makes for a lock down effect from 4th that has use till you get cold ice strike!

Spiritual Weapon (with a high crit range) + Toppling Spell +Vortex Spells (wind oracle) also makes for a great move action/damage/stagger/trip combo!

Wayfinders 1/5 5/5 Venture-Captain, California—Los Angeles (West LA)

You know that non of you have even mention the good tactic to leave a couple of spell slots open?

especially clerics and divine casters.

I mean we have finite ability to cast and there are so many times when you need something specific its always good to have a spell slot ready to fit.

I think for Divine casters an empty spell slot that could be filled when in need with a lesser restoration, comprehend languages, some other out of combat or situational spell.

Am I the only one crazy to have a couple of open spell slots?

Silver Crusade 2/5

No, I do it all the time.

Grand Lodge 1/5

Eric Saxon wrote:

For the divine:

Lvl 1 - Bless, because it makes everyone a little better which rocks at lvl. 1-2.

Lvl 2 - Lesser Restoration, always keep 2 of these chambered. Having a spell that will make a night march bearable by the melee characters. Or if they get fatigued.

Lvl 3 - Prayer (see every post above, but it makes Bless look like a poor man's Prayer)

Since someone brought this back, I'll add what I've learned playing as Cleric.

Lvl. 4 - Restoration, oh so good. Purge Invisibility, you don't know how many times this will pull your bacon out of the fryer.

Lvl. 5 - Breath of Life.

As for open spell slots, you have to fill them prior to game start. You can't memorize spells as the adventure progresses.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Eric Saxon wrote:
As for open spell slots, you have to fill them prior to game start. You can't memorize spells as the adventure progresses.

Where did you arrive at this? Even without the arcane feat, whic reduces the time to prepare a spell to one minute, it only takes 15 minutes to fill that open slot.

It may take an effort, but there should be a gap, right after the VC monologue, befor eyou get to your first destination, where you can fill those slots with mission-appropriate spells.

1/5 Venture-Captain, Germany–Hannover

Open spell slots are cool.
There was something else than fast study lately, i just don´t remember it.
And it looked like it would stack.
That would wizard insane actually. Not sure what the spell learning time would come down to then.
Have to find it again^^

EDIT: It´s Quick Preparation from Society Primer,"when preparing spells you halve the time necessary to do so".
Combined with fast study, that would make 30 seconds or three rounds to prepare a spell, taking spell preparation possibly into combat.
That makes for some nice action hehe.

3/5

5 rounds, not 3.

1/5 Venture-Captain, Germany–Hannover

Yeah right my fault.

Scarab Sages 5/5

"Devil's Advocate" wrote:
In your experience, what are some of the better spells (I don't want to say best) for a Cleric and Wizard to have online. Which are the ones you find good enough to prep more than one of, or regardless of your build or what the Class Guides say, have saved your bacon?

Invisibility Purge is a great spell - all too often we haven't had it.

daylight, of course

3/5 RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

Dhjika wrote:

Invisibility Purge is a great spell - all too often we haven't had it.

daylight, of course

Those are situational enough that I think you can just keep them around as scrolls or oils, respectively.

Here's my suggestions:

Liberating Command - Once you get to level 5 or so, and you keep ending up with level 1 spells left over, prep two or three of these. It scales great with level, and it's an immediate action to cast, so it doesn't mess with your action economy.

Grace - Great for squishy and battle clerics alike. Cast as a swift action (which doesn't provoke), then move to wherever you need to be to do your thing.

Suppress Charms and Compulsions - It's the Year of the Demon. When your 7 Wis fighter gets Dominated, you an answer to it. And running away like a little girl only gets you so far.

Grand Lodge 2/5 RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

RainyDayNinja wrote:
Suppress Charms and Compulsions - It's the Year of the Demon. When your 7 Wis fighter gets Dominated, you an answer to it. And running away like a little girl only gets you so far.

That's great if (1) you have that particular splat book and (2) have a half-decent save DC on your 2nd-level spells at the tier at which dominates are getting used.

3/5 RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

Jiggy wrote:
RainyDayNinja wrote:
Suppress Charms and Compulsions - It's the Year of the Demon. When your 7 Wis fighter gets Dominated, you an answer to it. And running away like a little girl only gets you so far.
That's great if (1) you have that particular splat book and (2) have a half-decent save DC on your 2nd-level spells at the tier at which dominates are getting used.

After what happened at The Hellknight's Feast, I'm getting the book for my cleric. And since you'll probably end up using it on the guys who tanked their Will saves anyway (seriously, +5 Will saves at level 9, with no Clear Spindle Ioun Stone?), it's probably going to work.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

CyTerrin wrote:

You know that non of you have even mention the good tactic to leave a couple of spell slots open?

especially clerics and divine casters.

I don't see how this is helpful for clerics whatsoever:

Cleric Spell Preparation Rules:
"Clerics meditate or pray for their spells. Each cleric must choose a time when she must spend 1 hour each day in quiet contemplation or supplication to regain her daily allotment of spells. A cleric may prepare and cast any spell on the cleric spell list, provided that she can cast spells of that level, but she must choose which spells to prepare during her daily meditation."

Since clerics can only regain spells at one specific time a day, there really is no point leaving open slots. It also makes the spell Nap Stack less useful for clerics.

Silver Crusade 2/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Clerics can use the universal rules for prepared casters. Or rather, the rules that seem universal for prepared casters, as this is specific for divine casters, even.

From the PRD:

"Spell Selection and Preparation: A divine spellcaster selects and prepares spells ahead of time through prayer and meditation at a particular time of day. The time required to prepare spells is the same as it is for a wizard (1 hour), as is the requirement for a relatively peaceful environment. When preparing spells for the day, a cleric can leave some of her spell slots open. Later during that day, she can repeat the preparation process as often as she likes. During these extra sessions of preparation, she can fill these unused spell slots. She cannot, however, abandon a previously prepared spell to replace it with another one or fill a slot that is empty because she has cast a spell in the meantime. Like the first session of the day, this preparation takes at least 15 minutes, and it takes longer if she prepares more than one-quarter of his spells."

Grand Lodge 4/5

It's on page 220 of the Core book if you want to find it there.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Some cantrips/orisons that can break things:
Create Water - useful for cleaning, and can expose some otherwise hard-to-find secrets entries/pits easily.

Guidance - Anyone ever object to having a +1 on a D20 roll?

Detect Magic - goes without saying.

Read Magic - If you run across scrolls, useful to have. Although it can be done without preparation for 275 gold, once a day. (Wayfinder, dull grey Ioun stone resonance)

Ray of Frost/Acid Splash - not a lot of damage, but touch attack, and infinitely repeatable. Plink, plink, plink. Less useful at higher levels, but even then, forcing a Concentration check, however minor, might be useful.

Disrupt Undead - if you know you are going to be facing a lot of Undead, like during almost any dungeon crawl, it can be helpful to have available.

Prestidigitation - No one can ever call you, or your willing allies, dirty again. And, like many illusion spells, only limited by the user's imagination.

For some low level but useful stuff:

Silent Image, as mentioned in other threads, can be used to make illusions of some more powerful spells. Wall of X, since, usually, X isn't going to be making any noise to begin with. Wall of Stone, Wall of Water, etc.

Ventriloquism/Ghost Sound - "Made you look!" If the guards are looking North, while your party sneaks in from the South, that is useful.

Liberty's Edge 1/5

Admittedly, I tend to play spontaneous casters, but here are my favorites:

Level 0 -
Detect Magic (Absolutely necessary.)
Guidance (For those dicey skill rolls.)
Message (This has literally won a scenario for me, and been a huge help in a dozen others.)

Level 1 -
Liberating Command (Saves lives)
Featherfall (Saves more lives)
Vanish (When you need to avoid attention)
Honeytongue (Don't memorize. Buy a level 1 wand, UMD it, and use whenever you might need to roll diplomacy.)

Level 2 -
Silence (Cast on a handkerchief or your friend's sword. Poor BBEG caster.)
Lesser Resto (Fixes the party after poison, fatigue, nasty undead)
Resist Energy (Trivializes some encounters)
Heroism (Invaluable for my bard, esp. with a Courageous weapon.)
Ghostbane Dirge (Amazing how often incorporeals try to ruin your day!)
Lipstitch (Great against casters or nasty bite attacks)

False Life (Has saved my life 3 times.)

Level 3 -
Haste (Does this need any explanation?)
Dispel Magic (When you need it, you NEED IT.)

Level 4 -
Emergency Force Shield (So powerful, it's unfair)


keerawa wrote:

...

Ghostbane Dirge (Amazing how often incorporeals try to ruin your day!)
Lipstitch (Great against casters or nasty bite attacks)
...

My friend was really looking forward to these.

But now that he has them, absolutely nothing (not one single opponent) has failed the save vs either of them. He has decent (but not uber) save dc's. It's just been a statistical cluster of die rolls. But he's gotten so he doesn't even want to try casting the spells anymore and is planning to replace them as soon as he is able.

Sovereign Court 5/5 RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

I've not used Ghostbane Dirge, but I recommend keeping lipstitch. The first time they fail the save and the GM realizes how screwed the bard is... it's priceless.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/5 ****

Also Lipstitch works great against Naga. Without their mouth they are pretty funny to watch. They can just flop around.

Dark Archive 4/5

Blink, blink, blink, blink.

You cannot go wrong with Blink. It is by far the most broken, offensive, defensive spell in the game as stands.

Silver Crusade 2/5

Well, blink does make some of your stuff miss as well.

5/5 5/55/55/5

Some way of dealing with invisibility. Its very ubiquitous. What people forget is that invisibility isn't just a 50% miss chance: its the inability to be targeted by spells, and the real hit chance is a mere 1 out of the number of squares on the battle grid.

Comprehend languages/Tongues: you are archeologist murder hobos on occasion. Its neigh impossible to learn EVERY language you might come across. Being able to read "Danger: Arcane magical fields ahead. Do not advance further without disabling the crystals unless you want to get in touch with your inner chinchilla" can be handy.

Some way of dealing with darkness or deeper darkness. It comes up a lot. Same problems as invisibility. A clerics Continual flame will get darkness, for deeper darkness you need daylight and/or a heightened continual flame.

Some way of dealing with swarms. PFS is swarming with them. Once you pass the "alchemist fire" level swarms the melee are out of luck.

Non. Lethal damage. Aqueous orb, hold person, charm person, or a rod of deal non lethal damage. Especially with half the new secondary success conditions being "bring em in alive"

Some way to swim or deal with water. Touch of the sea, water breathing, or even chill metal

D fence. The ability to level a city block with the snap of your fingers doesn't matter worth a damn if someone severs your fingers before you move. A little ac, a miss chance, and a mirror image go a long way.

some way of dealing with swarms.

Fabricate:

Shadow Lodge *

Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Superscriber
kinevon wrote:
Ray of Frost/Acid Splash - not a lot of damage, but touch attack, and infinitely repeatable. Plink, plink, plink. Less useful at higher levels, but even then, forcing a Concentration check, however minor, might be useful.

Believe it or not, I have been in more than one combat where the *only* thing we had that could do damage to our opponent was my caster's Acid Splash. (Because they had high DR but no energy resistance.) Always try to have one of these unless you've already got plenty of blasting options.

Also worth mentioning -- these are ranged touch attacks, so Sneak Attack damage can apply, if applicable. (And the sneak attack damage is *also* considered to be Cold or Acid damage.) These aren't horrible options for a Rogue to pick up with Minor Magic, especially if they have a Feint build.

Grand Lodge 4/5 **

Kurt S wrote:

Aqueous Orb has been great. Lots of scenarios take place on ships. Place BBEG is Orb and launch over the side of the ship (holding him there so you can get his stuff), kill his pals, kill him and fish him out. The Pit spells are also quite effective. They are quite hard to get out of.

We have a cleric in our group who constantly readies silence spells for nasty spellcasters (casting it at their feet; no save and ruining the spell they were getting ready to cast).

At their feet? No cast it on the fighter's weapon and have them ready action to move with the caster.

Grand Lodge 4/5

I don't think you can ready a silence spell since it takes a round to cast.

Grand Lodge 4/5 **

Baronjett wrote:
I don't think you can ready a silence spell since it takes a round to cast.

You don't ready the silence spell. You cast it on the fighter's weapon where he allows it. Then the FIGHTER ready the action to move with the caster...thereby not allowing the caster to just walk away with an AoO and cast a spell anyways.

The Exchange 5/5

Cold Napalm wrote:
Baronjett wrote:
I don't think you can ready a silence spell since it takes a round to cast.
You don't ready the silence spell. You cast it on the fighter's weapon where he allows it. Then the FIGHTER ready the action to move with the caster...thereby not allowing the caster to just walk away with an AoO and cast a spell anyways.

cast it on a flying familiar (extra points if the wizard makes it invisible too) and have it "ready an action to move with the enemy caster - and hover 10 to 15 feet over his head"

Shadow Lodge 5/5

true ressurection is always useful for PFS.

Shadow Lodge

insaneogeddon wrote:
Silence is an Illusion (glammer) and follows the rules for such. Saves are applicable as some people can be deluded when others aren't (case in point). Its not transmutation, evocation or even quasi real!

Incorrect, and I'll spend the time to break down the explanation.

But I'll spoiler it, because it's long and off-topic:
First, let's look at the PRD for the illusion (glamer) subschool:
Glamer wrote:
Glamer: A glamer spell changes a subject's sensory qualities, making it look, feel, taste, smell, or sound like something else, or even seem to disappear.

You'll note that this not only does not define any special rules for saving throws, but it also does NOT state that glamer spells are mind-affecting, meaning the illusion is, in fact, NOT in the subject's head, which in turns means glamer spells do NOT necessarily target the people they're trying to fool.

Second, let's take a look at the silence spell itself, starting with the saving throw line in it's header:

Silence wrote:
Saving Throw: Will negates; see text or none (object)

Note that in this instance, the "or" breaks that into two entries: "Will negates; see text", and "none (object)". To determine which of the two entries apply, you need to consult the actual text, so let's take a look at the only parts that mention saving throws (and spell resistance).

Silence wrote:
An unwilling creature can attempt a Will save to negate the spell and can use spell resistance, if any. Items in a creature's possession or magic items that emit sound receive the benefits of saves and spell resistance, but unattended objects and points in space do not.

So let's break this into a list:

1. Targets an unwilling creature: Will save and spell resistance applies.
2. Object's in a creatures possession: Will save and spell resistance applies.
3. Magic items: Will save and spell resistance applies, but ONLY if the item emits sound (no, banging it on a wall doesn't count).
4. Unattended objects, or points in space: No save, no spell resistance.

"But wait!", you say, "my sorcerer is CLEARLY an unwilling creature, so he TOTES gets a save, even when you cast it on that willing fighter over there!"

True, he is a "creature", and we DID just define him as "unwilling". If only the silence spell had a "target" line to clear up what that applies to.

No, really, it'd be nice. On the other hand, there ARE the two sentences immediately prior to that last quote:

Silence wrote:
The spell can be cast on a point in space, but the effect is stationary unless cast on a mobile object. The spell can be centered on a creature, and the effect then radiates from the creature and moves as it moves.

The "casts on" language would clearly imply that it's defining a target, which is backed up by being immediately followed by the saving throw break-down.

When you have a targeted spell, ONLY the targets get saves; everyone else who might somehow be affected does NOT, unless specifically called for. In the example that you (me) stated (sock-puppeted), the fighter is the target. As he is not an "unwilling creature", an "object in a creature's possession", or a "magic item", he gets no Will save, and spell resistance does NOT apply. As your sorcerer is not the target, he "totes" does not get a save.

The final thing I'll point out, in order to address the "some people will be deluded, but some won't" idea is probably one of the most misunderstood rules in all of Pathfinder.

When you actually get a freaking save against an illusion due to disbelief.

Illusion wrote:

Saving Throws and Illusions (Disbelief): Creatures encountering an illusion usually do not receive saving throws to recognize it as illusory until they study it carefully or interact with it in some fashion.

A successful saving throw against an illusion reveals it to be false, but a figment or phantasm remains as a translucent outline.

A failed saving throw indicates that a character fails to notice something is amiss. A character faced with proof that an illusion isn't real needs no saving throw. If any viewer successfully disbelieves an illusion and communicates this fact to others, each such viewer gains a saving throw with a +4 bonus.

In order to get a save, you have to interact with the illusion.

Let's say, for example, we have a pit, covered up with a silent image spell. Our fighter walks within five feet of the pit trap, and simply stands there. Does he get a Will save?

No, because he hasn't interacted with it, nor has he studied it carefully.

Now, if he were to search the area for traps, I would think that would count as "studying" it, and he would thus get a save. If he pokes it with a stick, he gets a save, because he's "interacting" with it. If he steps on it... he automatically knows it's an illusion, because he's confronted by proof that it's fake (namely, plummeting through it).

To put this another way, let's say I use minor image, make a Bluff check, and convince the enemies that I've just "summoned" 36 lantern archons (sorry, Brett). Do any of those demons get saves as soon as those "archons" are "summoned"?

HECK NO. Unless they identify it as an illusion somehow, such as using Spellcraft as it's being cast to identify the spell, or using detect magic to determine the school of magic, they start off believing that those are REAL archons, and must act as such (like, say, wasting four rounds attacking them because the GM just can't make a save).

Now how do we apply that to silence?

Quite frankly, you don't. Why not?

Because the save line doesn't say "Will (disbelief)", they way spells like ghost sound or silent image (and, by extension, minor image and major image) do. In order for the disbelief rule to apply, the spell has to actually invoke it; silence does not, and thus creatures do not get a save when "interacting" or "studying" the lack of auditory input.

So, the only thing that gets a save against silence is the thing it's being centered on, because that's literally the ONLY thing that's ever defined as GETTING a save against it.

Frankly, I think while silence fits in nicely in the illusion school, thematically (both for the spell AND for the school), mechanically, putting it there raises too much potential confusion; personally, I think it'd be better if the spell was an abjuration or evocation.

Grand Lodge 4/5

pH unbalanced wrote:
kinevon wrote:
Ray of Frost/Acid Splash - not a lot of damage, but touch attack, and infinitely repeatable. Plink, plink, plink. Less useful at higher levels, but even then, forcing a Concentration check, however minor, might be useful.

Believe it or not, I have been in more than one combat where the *only* thing we had that could do damage to our opponent was my caster's Acid Splash. (Because they had high DR but no energy resistance.) Always try to have one of these unless you've already got plenty of blasting options.

Also worth mentioning -- these are ranged touch attacks, so Sneak Attack damage can apply, if applicable. (And the sneak attack damage is *also* considered to be Cold or Acid damage.) These aren't horrible options for a Rogue to pick up with Minor Magic, especially if they have a Feint build.

I know my Wizard (Admixture) keeps Ray of Frost memorized. I know on at least 2 occasions where the GM went 'they are immune to cold' and I've smiled and pointed out that for up to 13 times a day it's NOT a frost beam but any elemental effect I want (thank you Tiefling racial trait).

Add in the fact that I do +5 with evocation spells and it's easy to see me doing more damage with the ray of frost than I can do with grampa's femor or my crossbow.

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