alignment incentive, please critique

[Ethandrul]

So we are about to start reign of winter. I want to incent players to play within their alignment and gently nudge them toward certain alignments. So, i came up with a chart that gives certain trait style abilities to the 9 alignments.

LAWFUL: +1 to saves vs. mind control. increases every 4 levels
NEUTRAL( law/chaos axis): +1 Language
CHAOTIC: Earn 1 gold/level for each day spent free within a community
also starts with an extra 50 gp

GOOD: +1 skill point/level
TRUE NEUTRAL ONLY: reroll 1 diplomacy check/day
EVIL:+1 to save vs. poison +1/4 levels
NEUTRAL GOOD:Healing spells heal +1 hp/die. this increases by 1 evey 4 levels
NEUTRAL EVIL: Precision damage counts 1s as 2s on all dice rolled.

My thinking on these is that good characters would naturaly be sharing tricks and helping each other out, so they are learning new things every day.

Evil characters are apt to trust each other, this was +1 hp, but i want to nudge away from evil.

Chaotic characters are gaining money by any means thet can. gambling, getting other people to buy their meals, theft, applying skills ect.
While this one is a cool mechanic- its pretty weak.

Lawful characters have a rigd sense of duty, so are a bit less inclined to have their wills bent.

With Neutral good and evil, I wanted to emphasize their connection to positive and negative energy. again, I am nudging away from evil.

True Neutral is an abritrator

[Wyrmholez]

I like this idea. I'm not a huge fan of some of the perks emulating class features. I think I'd just handcuff trait like effects to the alignment components!

[The Golux]

As someone who likes being neutral good and having lots of skill points and languages, I have no problem with this.

That said there's no "Official" link between good and evil and positive and negative energy. Though there's a heck of a correlation.

[OutsiderSubtype]

Seems like Chaotic Good really gets the shaft in this system. Which is okay if you want to provide a disincentive for that alignment, but if played properly Chaotic Good is a perfectly fine choice for a heroic adventurer.

Edit: Why not give LG a bonus against Charm (duty) and CG a bonus against Compulsion (freedom).

[Flintas]

I like the idea, but certain things could be abused. For example, Good gaining +1 skill point per level. What if they change alignment to Neutral later on. They still benefit from the skill points they've already gained. I think all the abilities should be some sort of bonus based on level like your Lawful ability.

[Tintros]

I'd change NE and NG to something less class-specific-benefitting...

[Ethandrul]

good feedback, thanks! throw me some more ideas please!

[Dragonamedrake]

LAWFUL: +1 to saves vs. Charm. increases every 4 levels
NEUTRAL: +1 to saves vs. Issusion. increases every 4 levels
CHAOTIC: +1 to saves vs. Compulsion. increases every 4 levels

GOOD: +1 to save vs. disease +1/4 levels
NEUTRAL: +1 to save vs. curse +1/4 levels
EVIL: +1 to save vs. poison +1/4 levels

I think thats pretty balanced.

[Ethandrul]

yeah, i agree it is balanced. but some of them lack a good "hook". why would neutrality get a save vs. curses? granted, i think that one is cool- but part of my plan was to set thm firmly with a valid reason. I would think a ave vs disease would fit more with lawful because cleanliness is a habit of the regimental mind, though as good i suppose it could be good clean living- avoiding whores and villainy would lessen exposure to infections- so i guess that ne works for either.

[Dragonamedrake]

Neutrality tends to limit the classic hook of most curses. Most curses are caused by being a Hero (Good), or as punishment for being evil. I have never heard of the neutral gaining a curse for being ... balanced.

I agree Good = clean living = bonus vs disease.

I mean you could go all crazy with it.

Good: 1 Hero Point per day +1/4 Hero point per level per day
Neutral: 1 reroll per day +1/4 Hero point per level per day
Evil: Auto hit or Max damage once per day +1/4 Hero point per level per day

[Ascalaphus]

dot

[OutsiderSubtype]

It sounds like your real desire is to provide an incentive to play characters with Good alignments. With that in mind, I would go with:

LG: +1 versus Charm (focus on duty)
NG: +1 versus Phantasms(unerring focus on good)
CG: +1 versus Compulsion (focus on freedom)

I would give a smaller bonus to all neutral characters. +1 versus Curses is okay. I would give no bonus to evil characters.

+1 versus all illusions for NG is too good. It's an entire spell school as opposed to subschools for LG and CG.

Or just make it known that Hero Points will only be awarded for Heroic Acts in keeping with the Good alignments.

[Ethandrul]

hmmmm. i've never actually used hero points. I would like to see the party stay away from chaotic alignments. good or evil will not be much of an issue- I expect mostly neutral with a touch of evil and good mixed in. I mostly want to avoid "chaotic evil = chaotic neutral"

[Malachite Ice]

Ethandrul wrote:

So we are about to start reign of winter. I want to incent players to play within their alignment and gently nudge them toward certain alignments. So, i came up with a chart that gives certain trait style abilities to the 9 alignments.

I don't see why this would incent players to play within a character's alignment, which I thought was the purpose (unless the intent to penalize violations by removing the benefit).

Cheers,
MI

[strayshift]

My view on lawful is that such people are organised, methodical and co-operative within structures. Some kind of contextual benefit around this (e.g. being a member of a merchants/mages guild) would be consistant.

Chaotic people would be highly individualistic, spontaneous and possibly non-conformist. Some kind of contextual benefit around this(e.g. being a member of an underground movement) would be consistant.

Good people would be motivated to strive in the general interests of their general community (as they see them). A good deal of 'social goodwill' may be offered to such characters from within their own community.

Evil people would be motivated by personal advancement and privelage. Perhaps they enjoy the benefits of paying less attention to 'ethics' but are ultimately feared/disliked by the wider community because of this.

Neutral people would enjoy sufficient 'behavioural flexibility' in order to operate across these codes and so get to choose according to axis (Law/Chaos, Good/Evil) the benefits they wish to recieve.

It is of note that these benefits are largely social and so the role-playing dimension would be where players ultimately benefitted, not the meta-gaming one.
G

[Malachite Ice]

strayshift wrote:

My view on ...

G

Well, I don't disagree (although I might phrase it differently), and I do see the connection between the benefits and that outlook. What I do not see is why these benefits incent a player with them to play within that alignment.

Or perhaps we're talking past each other, and we mean different things by 'incent'? I'm looking at this as something that would prod or convince the player to act in an alignment-appropriate way (incent), not as a benefit for doing so (reward).

Cheers,
MI

[Rynjin]

I like the concept, don't really like the execution.

Evil especially gets the shaft over Good. "+1/4 saves vs poison per level" is in no way comparable to +1 skill point per level.

[Umbranus]

I think the idea that specific alignments give specific bonuses is nice. But they should be a kind of bonuses that are equally beneficial for different kind of PCs. Others already said it. Why would a true neutral pc who doesn't want to be a face get nothing?
And the CG bonus doesn't mix well with the profession skill because there already IS a mechanic for gaining money by spending time.

An you have something mixed up, I guess. Because you state what a good person gets, what a neutral (chaos/law)person gets and something different for a neutral good person. Or should they get all three benefits? A skillpoint, a language and better healing spells?

[Ascalaphus]

I might go for a system where being lawful gives you an advantage and minor disadvantage; chaotic gives you an advantage and minor disadvantage; neutral gives no advantage nor disadvantage. Being neutral is about not having the disadvantages of alignment, not an advantage in itself. More freedom to act left or right, but not the benefits of commitment.

For example: Lawful has +2 against Charm but -1 against Compulsion, and Chaotic has the reverse. Neutral is equally good or bad against both.

I wouldn't do this on the good-evil axis though. I like the idea of Neutral being resistant to curses, but I'm less convinced about the good/evil rewards. I do like the idea that good is rewarded more than evil, but skill points are maybe a bit too much, and awkward if alignment changes. Do have to give the skillpoints back? But disease resistance vs. poison resistance: I think the poison resistance is more valuable for adventurers. OTOH, disease resistance for evil people strikes me as appropriate because of the "trains running on time" thing.