To clarify, are you talking about in Golarion, or more generally? This varies massively from setting to setting.
I believe in Golarion true neutral souls stay in the Boneyard, which is where all souls go first before they are sent to their respective planes.
It depends on the deity you worship and your relationship with them, however the major planes that represents the alignments are:
True Neutral - The Boneyard
Chaotic Neutral - The Maelstrom
Lawful Neutral - Axis
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Sometimes it depends on who they worship. CN souls can wind up in freaking Elysium if they worshipped Calistria or Gorum.
The general locations by alignment are the Maelstrom(CN), the Boneyard(N), and the plane-city of Axis(LN). There are a lot of other realms within and around them keyed to specific deities as well.
Sometimes it depends on who they worship. CN souls can wind up in freaking Elysium if they worshipped Calistria or Gorum.
The general locations by alignment are the Maelstrom(CN), the Boneyard(N), and the plane-city of Axis(LN). There are a lot of other realms within and around them keyed to specific deities as well.
That's a good point for "average" people too. A farmer who never really distinguishes himself as a force for good and law could end up in Heaven simply as a devout follower of Erastil.
Inner Sea World Guide also mentioned the Neutral dead being transformed into Aeons to serve Pharasma (I think the psychopomps are also an option for the Neutral dead). I do remember somewhere it mentioning that atheists were condemned to be buried in the necropolis of the Boneyard and have no reward. I forget where I saw that.
I think firefly though has it right about even the true neutral farmer who worships mainly Erastil would end up with Erastil in Heaven.
Neutral (IMHO) gets short shrift in Pathfinder products. True Neutral souls, if they are not faithful worshippers of a diety of another alignment, can become Psychopomps or Aeons. However neither of these options really seem like they should "fit" most neutral souls. Aeons seem to take neutrality as a position in life, and would be only appropriate for people really really concerned with balance. Psychopomps seem most appropriate for either Pharasma worshippers, people really devoted to the care of souls, or those with a morbid bent. But I can imagine a lot of souls not fitting in either category, and it seems like hanging out in a giant graveyard for all eternity is kind of a boring fate for someone who wasn't evil in life
But I can imagine a lot of souls not fitting in either category, and it seems like hanging out in a giant graveyard for all eternity is kind of a boring fate for someone who wasn't evil in life
If you do not worship a god you are stuck in the boneyard, regardless of alignment. This is explored significantly in the Pathfinder Tales novel "Death's Heretic." However, it also appears to be strongly implied that evil souls are sent to Hell/Abyss, I guess it could be that their actions caused their soul to become the property of Demons/Devils or maybe they "worshiped" through their actions and not their activity (or lack there of) with the specific religion.
A neutral soul will go to the god they worshiped, and there are several neutral gods. Also there is no alignment restriction for regular worshipers, just clerics. So conceivably a LE person could worship and end up with a CG deity, although their "action worship" may significantly outweigh their "religiosity worship."
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If you do not worship a god you are stuck in the boneyard, regardless of alignment.
If you don't worship a god, you go to the plane of your alignment.
Being stuck in the Boneyard for Groetus to eat is a very specific and honestly rare circumstance that has less to do with not worshiping a god or even denying the divinity of the gods, and more to do with denying the existence of your own soul in the face of all evidence to the contrary.
I think most these unexceptional souls become neutral petitioners (Bestiary 2). If the Boneyard doesn't fit your view of N afterlife you could add something like the outlands or spiritworld outside of Pharasma's and Groetus' influence.
I'm inclined to think that the Boneyard has a section set aside for petitioners underground and that it looks a lot like Irkalla (Sheol, Hades). People, colorless in appearance and personality, go around doing pretty much what they did in life for all eternity. Maybe they get rewards or punishment for success or failure at inoffensive temporal goals like having a career or bearing children.
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What makes a man turn neutral?
Lust for gold?
Power?
Or were you just born with a heart full of neutrality?
GV has the right of it. If you're just a neutral that wasn't strongly connected to a diety, and wasn't into the whole death or balance thing, you go on living your life basically as it was, until you decide that it is time to return to mortality.
I see as two things. One, you were truly happy with the life you had and didn't strongly desire anything else, so you continue in that existence more or less. Two, you haven't made a decision yet, so cycle through again until you know where you want to be. If you don't really want to be anywhere, see one.
To quote Zap Brannagin "..." aw crap Ninja-ed
I believe that in the Golarian setting, Pharasma decides where you will spend eternity based on her visions. Even Neutral souls end up somewhere depending on their deity or acts in life. One important note is that atheists are sent to the Outer Gods (or Elder Gods, whichever Pathfinder uses).
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I'd keep putting th souls through different lives(possibly as Samsaran) until they pick a dang alignment that let's them go somewhere besides the Boneyard. What use are souls if they just sit around doing nothing?
Neutrality might be "easier" than good, but it's probably harder than evil.
We can't all be heroes because somebody has to sit on the curb and clap as they go by.
I think if you exist long enough, everything will become boring. Even demons and angels have to eventually get exhausted with the drudgery of everlasting sentience....neutral souls just go somewhere boring.
This represents a completely mortal view.
Being immortal, it seems to me, probably involves something of a paradigm shift such that seeing cyclical events such as history tends to involve likely doesn't bother so much.
As mortals "new" and "different" are what we run on.
As immortals... that's probably nice, but you've likely seen it before. Ergo, it's likely in how it's done rather than what is done. In many ways, look at our fiction: "there's nothing new under the sun" - original stories are vanishingly rare and not always good (ala Twilight) but "cliche" stories can be amazing, if done correctly (the traditional fantasy archetypes found in D&D and thus Pathfinder).
Completely Original stories? Can be great... but aren't necessarily, and are often done terribly... the first time. Later refinements of the concept can be much better.
In much the same way, immortals have probably "seen it all" and thus instead of being bored with "Oh, this plot again..." (although occasionally that's got to come up), it's more a matter of "Hm, I wonder how good this one will be..." and it's probably on purpose on their part - they choose to look at it that way.
snipAll perfectly valid points. I suppose I've read too many immortality-related stories (The Last Answer, the Jaunt, I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream) to think of endless existence as anything but the worst punishment possible.
On a brighter note, I actually see the eternity of neutral souls as being the most peaceful, contemplative, and pleasant of all afterlife options in the PF campaign setting. The dearly departed have "...the time and ability to pursue all they enjoyed or were never able to partake of during their mortal existence." That's not boring in the least - it's a calm paradise. There are no hordes of demons to fight, no souls to steal, no vast multiplanar conspiracies to engage in. It's not exactly thrilling, but that's perhaps the best part.
I can see that. For my part, I'm of the opinion that if something is literally good incarnate, they wouldn't reward a creature with eternal life if that was a punishment.
Immortality would be especially hard with a mortal mindset... which one gets by being raised surrounded by mortals... which is more or less what makes immortality so horrible in most of those cases... and is exactly where the Folorn elves come from, in Golarion (more or less - they're effectively 'immortal' while other races grow up, old, and die around them). The other "immortality is the worst thing" stories tend to revolve around unending torture of some sort. And the thing is? Those stories are great. They have good points. But the boredom mostly comes directly from the very mortal "I must have unique experiences to determine my life's worth" idea. (There are "do not want" immortality stories in Golarion-and-beyond too, though. Dominion of the Black, for instance.)
One other thing that would ease the burden of immortality for outsiders that have mortal friends (comparatively rare as that might be) is that even though their mortal friends die... they know said creatures have souls... that will go on... and eventually become outsiders.
True, said new outsiders likely won't recall their former lives (petitioners, amirite?!), but that doesn't negate the comradery* the outsider felt. In fact, it could lead to interesting social situations where some elder outsider watches over and guards the soul-stuff (either as a whole, or fragmented as they're want by alignment/plane) of a former friend and colleague. It doesn't always work out that they become friends again, of course, but, again, most outsiders are probably used to this being a potential outcome and be more interested in seeing where this event goes (and thus determine if it was a good one or a bad one). Could be the basis for an interesting story, actually. Following an angel as he attempts to guide and shepherd the factional remains of a once-mortal-comrade's spirit (maybe even of a different alignment, like an archon or azata with a neutral good angel) into "higher forms" so that he can engage with them/him as semi-equals again - I could just see a NG astral deva trying to shepherd the young newly-formed lantern archons out of a mortal paladin's (perhaps even a former lover's?) newly-judge soul. (Interestingly, this could also apply to fiends just as much as others - while devils, for example, are evil, they're not emotionless and can be seduced, form friendships, and the like - in this instance, it's likely that they'd 'acquire' their old friends' soul-bits to lord over, having interesting conversations with the mindless lemures; demons similarly, though more chaotic, and their dretches could actually talk back.)
Anyway, it's an interesting - to me - take on the whole thing and rife with story potential.
* The dictionary likes this, even if spell-check doesn't.
EDIT: added a link - lover links to aasimar, because they could have (theoretically) had children together, thus forming an interesting family line...
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I think if you exist long enough, everything will become boring. Even demons and angels have to eventually get exhausted with the drudgery of everlasting sentience.
I can think of a few things that wouldn't get old. I'll keep it "family friendly," but imagine eating and never getting overfull, drinking without getting getting sick, dancing without getting tired... it all sounds pretty good to me.
Even so, I'd imagine that the deceased would experience the passage of time differently than the living do. I imagine it would be more like a vivid dream (or nightmare) than day-to-day mortal existence.
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I see your point and raise you a minorly-interesting debate: Tabris' fall wasn't due to "doing his job", it was due to "uttering heresy" (and refusing to stop when they said, "okay, enough, stop, we get the picture"). There are "cruelties" (if you could call it that) in Heaven, but they're not "hidden" so much as plainly noted as "hey, that's evil, stop doing that or get cast out"... which is exactly what happened.
The sublimation phase, in earlier editions of D&D, at least, was that of unification with the plane in question itself (so literally becoming a part of heaven, for example) or, in the case of Celestia, ascending "beyond" to the "next phase".
Engaging purely in hedonism, again, is something that is purely a mortal spin. Similarly, going from the pleasures of the flesh to the pleasures of the mind: that's how we'd tend to think of it as mortals.
But I'm going back to TV-Tropes as an example: taking a really brief look at it... there are precious few ways to spin a completely new story. Scale that up to true immortality, and there suddenly become precious few things that can be new at all.
But when I find an interesting story, it may or may not be "new"... that's kind of irrelevant.
As a further example of this: one of the most common and popular movements in Hollywood and Videogames are the concept of "retro" and "nostalgia" - bringing back the things from our childhood. Sometimes this sucks badly (the new Ninja Turtles movie) and sometimes this is incredibly awesome (the new Ninja Turtles cartoons).
We're not immortal... but already, as individuals and as a culture there's a longing for "that thing I used to like", and a tendency to recreate it, cyclically, within ourselves and without, either taking new spins on it, or dusting off the old VHS and/or shiny new DVDs, and watching it (or playing it or whatever) and experiencing that again.
I can easily see this extrapolated into immortality.
That's not to say that immortality is nothing but nostalgia... but the idea that just because something is "old" or "we've seen it before" is boring doesn't necessarily hold water.
Further, consider: the immortals of Pathfinder are finite - even their memories are finite (as indicated by the fact that they're not all experts in knowledge (history) based entirely on their age). If you ask me what the political scene was like during the 80s in the U.S. I can give you a vague answer. 90s and 00s are same way. But if you want real information, I'd have to look it up.
If you ask me exactly what happened in "that episode of Ninja Turtles" (meaning, of course, the '80s cartoon), I'd... not really be able to answer you, outside of a few of 'em. I loved that show, but I spend my time thinking about other things now.
Thus, given enough time, it'd be like experiencing it all for the first time again.
Also, so what if you've seen something a million times. We have professional people who follow a sport... let's say... football. They eat, sleep, breath, live football every day of their lives. And they may not always be interested in every game... but they can still be surprised. Despite all they know, their expertise, there's always the element that we define as "chance" - something beyond their ability to know for certainty. This makes each game (potentially) "new" (presupposing something else isn't happening in their life).
To build off of your contemplative idea: that, too, is mortal thinking in action. Because we can't conceive of being satisfied with physical delights for long (because we, being mortals, know how bored we tend to get with things), we tend to think that the "next stage" should logically be "something else". This leads us, within our limited context, to presume mental/thinking/contemplative stuff. Which is great! But not necessarily what the next phase is... it's just about the only thing (aside from full/true sublimation) that we can come up with.
That said, your idea isn't a bad one, and has some good merit to it. I'm just pointing out an alternate take and look. :)