As has been established, a Magus can cast Frostbite, and from then on until the spell's uses time out, every melee attack carries the spell.
What about for non-magi?
Let's say a witch casts it; can she make one melee touch attack per round? If she starts whacking with a weapon, or if she breaks out the Prehensile claws, is each hit going to carry a burst of the Frostbite?
Basically unsure if the only reason it works for a Magus is the Spellstrike ability.
Let's say a witch casts it; can she make one melee touch attack per round?
Yes, per JJ, making a touch attack is a standard action.
If she starts whacking with a weapon, or if she breaks out the Prehensile claws, is each hit going to carry a burst of the Frostbite?
With a manufactured weapon no, that doesn't ever work without Spellstrike.
Claws are a different matter.
RAW, since frostbite is a touch spell, you can hold the charge, and while doing so, you can deliver the spell with an unarmed strike or natural weapon. So, since you have not fully discharged the frostbite, you hold the charge, and you'll keep delivering it until it runs out of touches. If you have two touches left, and you make two claw attacks, you'll deliver it twice if you hit. That's only after you hold the charge, you can't use the claws with the free attack granted as part of casting the spell.
RAI, per JJ's interpretation of those kinds of spells, is that you don't hold the charge. After the first delivery, it ceases to function as a touch spell, and then works like a regular touch attack. Since you're not holding the charge, you can't use an unarmed strike or natural attack. The upside is that it doesn't dissipate if you cast another spell, so you can keep the effects of frostbite and chill touch running for days/weeks/years until used, and stack it up with other touch effects like elemental touch and shocking grasp.
There's a FAQ Request post here, if you're interested in an official clarification.
Wow- RAW and RAI both provide for some extremely interesting ideas and builds.
Thanks for your help, Grick- as always, you're a ridiculously knowledgeable and useful sage.
No, No, no. The witch or any other caster can attempt up to one touch per level (assuming they can reach that many targets) during the round of casting. After that the spell is expended and unused touches are lost. This is pretty clear from the PRD.
PRD: "Touch Spells and Holding the Charge: In most cases, if you don't discharge a touch spell on the round you cast it, you can hold the charge (postpone the discharge of the spell) indefinitely. You can make touch attacks round after round until the spell is discharged. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates.
Some touch spells allow you to touch multiple targets as part of the spell. You can't hold the charge of such a spell; you must touch all targets of the spell in the same round that you finish casting the spell."
You must touch all targets of the spell in the same round that you finish casting the spell. Pretty succinct.
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Arkadwyn, you should check out this FAQ, as it contradicts your assertion.
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No, No, no. The witch or any other caster can attempt up to one touch per level (assuming they can reach that many targets) during the round of casting. After that the spell is expended and unused touches are lost. This is pretty clear from the PRD.
PRD: "Touch Spells and Holding the Charge: In most cases, if you don't discharge a touch spell on the round you cast it, you can hold the charge (postpone the discharge of the spell) indefinitely. You can make touch attacks round after round until the spell is discharged. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates.
Some touch spells allow you to touch multiple targets as part of the spell. You can't hold the charge of such a spell; you must touch all targets of the spell in the same round that you finish casting the spell."
You must touch all targets of the spell in the same round that you finish casting the spell. Pretty succinct.
You are misreading this: "Some touch spells allow you to touch multiple targets as part of the spell."
A spell that allow you to touch multiple targets as part of the spell is a spell like Water breathing, with a line of "Target living creatures touched". Notice the plural.
Spell text: "The transmuted creatures can breathe water freely. Divide the duration evenly among all the creatures you touch. The spell does not make creatures unable to breathe air.
Frostbite say:
Targets creature touched (no plural here)Duration instantaneous
and
Your melee touch attack deals 1d6 points of nonlethal cold damage + 1 point per level, and the target is fatigued. The fatigued condition ends when the target recovers from the nonlethal damage. This spell cannot make a creature exhausted even if it is already fatigued. You can use this melee touch attack up to one time per level.
You can't touch multiple creatures in the round in which you have cast the spell. You can touch a single creature.
Then you have extra touches up to your level that you can use during the next rounds.
You have missed this part of the rules too:
Actions In Combat table
Use a touch spell on up to six friends Yes
There is no way (AFAIK) to touch more than a opponent during the round in which you cast a spell, so unless you want to sue frostbite against up to 6 friends you can't touch more than a creature while casting it.
check this piece of the magic section too:
Touch: You must touch a creature or object to affect it. A touch spell that deals damage can score a critical hit just as a weapon can. A touch spell threatens a critical hit on a natural roll of 20 and deals double damage on a successful critical hit. Some touch spells allow you to touch multiple targets. You can touch up to 6 willing targets as part of the casting, but all targets of the spell must be touched in the same round that you finish casting the spell. If the spell allows you to touch targets over multiple rounds, touching 6 creatures is a full-round action.
You must touch all targets of the spell in the same round that you finish casting the spell. Pretty succinct.
Generally, I believe that applies to buff touch spells, and you can touch up to six people in one turn assuming they are all next to you.
As for offensive spells, you can hold it and it goes off round after round up to your level. If you miss your attack, it also goes off.
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No, No, no. The witch or any other caster can attempt up to one touch per level (assuming they can reach that many targets) during the round of casting. After that the spell is expended and unused touches are lost. This is pretty clear from the PRD.
PRD: "Touch Spells and Holding the Charge: In most cases, if you don't discharge a touch spell on the round you cast it, you can hold the charge (postpone the discharge of the spell) indefinitely. You can make touch attacks round after round until the spell is discharged. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates.
Some touch spells allow you to touch multiple targets as part of the spell. You can't hold the charge of such a spell; you must touch all targets of the spell in the same round that you finish casting the spell."
You must touch all targets of the spell in the same round that you finish casting the spell. Pretty succinct.
You are misreading this: "Some touch spells allow you to touch multiple targets as part of the spell."
A spell that allow you to touch multiple targets as part of the spell is a spell like Water breathing, with a line of "Target living creatures touched". Notice the plural.
Spell text: "The transmuted creatures can breathe water freely. Divide the duration evenly among all the creatures you touch. The spell does not make creatures unable to breathe air.
Frostbite say:
Targets creature touched (no plural here)
Duration instantaneous
and
Your melee touch attack deals 1d6 points of nonlethal cold damage + 1 point per level, and the target is fatigued. The fatigued condition ends when the target recovers from the nonlethal damage. This spell cannot make a creature exhausted even if it is already fatigued. You can use this melee touch attack up to one time per level.
You can't touch multiple creatures in the round in which you have cast the spell. You can touch a single creature.
Then you have extra touches up to your level that you can use during the next rounds.You have missed this part of the rules too:
Actions In Combat table
Use a touch spell on up to six friends YesThere is no way (AFAIK) to touch more than a opponent during the round in which you cast a spell, so unless you want to sue frostbite against up to 6 friends you can't touch more than a creature while casting it.
check this piece of the magic section too:
Touch: You must touch a creature or object to affect it. A touch spell that deals damage can score a critical hit just as a weapon can. A touch spell threatens a critical hit on a natural roll of 20 and deals double damage on a successful critical hit. Some touch spells allow you to touch multiple targets. You can touch up to 6 willing targets as part of the casting, but all targets of the spell must be touched in the same round that you finish casting the spell. If the spell allows you to touch targets over multiple rounds, touching 6 creatures is a full-round action.
This is an incorrect interpretation. The FAQ was made in response to a very specific question regarding frostbite and chill touch as found HERE. It's hard to tell from the FAQ itself, but it is in reference to Chill Touch, Frostbite, and other such spells.
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This is an incorrect interpretation. The FAQ was made in response to a very specific question regarding frostbite and chill touch as found HERE. It's hard to tell from the FAQ itself, but it is in reference to Chill Touch, Frostbite, and other such spells.
Pray tell, what is the incorrect interpretation?
Nothing in the FAQ you linked invalidates my citations.|
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To be clear, the FAQ linked is in response to everything that was mentioned above in that link. If you read the thread, the main points of confusion were about frostbite and chill touch. The name of the thread even implies this, hence why the developers decided to post their response in that thread.
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To be clear, the FAQ linked is in response to everything that was mentioned above in that link. If you read the thread, the main points of confusion were about frostbite and chill touch. The name of the thread even implies this, hence why the developers decided to post their response in that thread.
I repeat the question that you have avoided.
What incorrect interpretation?My impression is that you have only skimmed my post, made some incorrect assumption on what I am saying and then you have decided to berate me on the basis your incorrect reading of what I posted.
I'm not sure what is being said to be incorrect. However, you definitely do, by RAW, hold the charge until all touches are expended, you definitely do get one free action touch attack the round you cast it, and you definitely can make as many touches over multiple rounds as you have touches to make.
Someone above asserted you have to make all the attacks in one round, but this is incorrect.
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I'm not sure what is being said to be incorrect. However, you definitely do, by RAW, hold the charge until all touches are expended, you definitely do get one free action touch attack the round you cast it, and you definitely can make as many touches over multiple rounds as you have touches to make.
Yes
Someone above asserted you have to make all the attacks in one round, but this is incorrect.
Exactly what I was confuting with my citations.
Probably I should have written better this part of my post, adding hostile to it:
You can't touch multiple hostile creatures in the round in which you have cast the spell. You can touch a single hostile creature.
but this phrase, a few rows below it made it clear:
There is no way (AFAIK) to touch more than a opponent during the round in which you cast a spell, so unless you want to use frostbite against up to 6 friends you can't touch more than a creature while casting it.
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Yeah... shoot me, the one important sentence was right below the frostbite quote, which I skipped, thinking it was part of the frostbite quote...
Sorry about that.
As for how to touch more than one opponent in the same round you cast Frostbite... Quickened frostbite will get you two touch attacks (You can take a standard action to touch), and a high BaB will net you more.
Then the magus can get alot of touches in as well.