| 3 people marked this as FAQ candidate. |
I'm putting the finishing touches on my Cavalier 1/Oracle X for PFS (she's at level 5 from GM credit, and I haven't played her yet), and just discovered this line I'd previously overlooked:
The mount is always considered combat trained and begins play with Light Armor Proficiency as a bonus feat. A cavalier's mount does not gain the share spells special ability.
This puts a huge dent in my build, since I was planning on making extensive use of Divine Favor and Inheritor's Smite (which are both personal), while my mount did all the fighting. But then I had a thought: Could I circumvent this by taking a level of oracle first (with the bonded mount reveleation) to get Share Spells, then take my level of cavalier later? Would I retroactively lose the Share Spells ability? Would the levels simply not stack because they are incompatible?
Design Manager
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
If you are choosing an Oracle build that gets its own Animal Companion, then the companion will gain Share Spells from the Oracle levels. If you aren't gaining AC levels via the oracle, than you're choosing a build that doesn't get Share Spells.
Your Oracle levels and Cavalier levels stack. You probably should take your Oracle level first, but other than that you should be good to go.
The bonded mount revelation gives me a mount that progresses as a druid's animal companion, just like the cavalier does. So if I took my first level in that, I would already have Share Spells when I take a level of cavalier.
Yeah, the wording sounds like it would work, but it seems like a super-cheesy exploit.
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
|
Yeah, the wording sounds like it would work, but it seems like a super-cheesy exploit.
How is it "cheesey"? All other caster classes can cast their spells on thier companions... if you're willing to dip a level in Oracle to pick up a curse and slow your BAB progression, you deserve to be able to cast spells on it.
In fact, I would say you would GAIN share spells when you took that Oracle level, even if you've had Cavalier before. You've taken a level in a spellcasting class that DOES grant share spells, so why wouldn't you have it?
Hmm... Take some levels in Paladin and take a Divine Mount, then levels in Cavalier if you wanted to. Maybe Rangers as well, though I haven't played one recently so don't quote me on that.
A sorcerer doesn't share spells if he gets a companion
Arguably, the Animal Ally feat gives you this, but you'll be paying a significant feat tax (Nature Soul feat as a prereq). Animal Domain would also give you the ability after 4+ Cleric levels (7+ for a Sacred Servant Paladin). You can also take the Eldritch Heritage feat, and hope your DM will be nice and let you get the Sylvan Bloodline for it. This also has a feat tax, but I've found Skill Foci tend to be more useful than the two skill feats. That's pretty much everything that comes to mind that wasn't mentioned already...
It does not matter what order you choose the classes. If a class has an ability then you gain that ability when you reach the appropriate level.
In short, take the Cavalier first or the Oracle first, it does not matter. When your oracle side gains share spells you will have share spells.
You can only ever have one mount and you must have it match all restrictions from the multiple classes you may have a mount.
So I think you lose Share Spells if you gain it via Oracle also.
Um, actually...
Also, Share Spells isn't a restriction, it's a bonus. A restriction is like saying your mount needs to be something big enough for you to ride, or be on a certain list of available options. A bonus is like saying your mount gets light armor proficiency for free - it doesn't suddenly lose said proficiency simply because you're stacking animal companion levels that don't offer the same thing.
Let's say for a moment you're playing a Fighter 4/Sorcerer 6 and you decide to multiclass into Eldritch Knight. Eldritch Knight will progress your spellcaster level but not your bloodline powers or bonus feats. You don't suddenly lose access to the powers and bonus feats you already got simply because you started taking levels in Eldritch Knight (even if it progresses your spellcasting ability).
In this particular case (Oracle 1/Cavalier X), the Mount would get Share Spells. You could make the case that for only the Share Spells ability the Mount would count as only a 1st level animal companion (with hit dice and everything else being the Mount's full combined level). However, the Share Spells ability doesn't really change as you level, so the point would be moot. (Conversely but similiarly, if it was Cavalier 1/Oracle X, you could make the case that the Mount's bonus Light Armor Proficiency doesn't scale with the added Oracle levels... But Light Armor Proficiency doesn't scale with levels, so it would be irrelevant.)
James Risner, that is like saying that because you lost Uncanny Dodge via a Rogue archetype you cannot gain it as a Barbarian. There is no rule that states that. If you get Share Spells from one class but not another then you have Share Spells.
|
James Risner, that is like saying that because you lost Uncanny Dodge via a Rogue archetype you cannot gain it as a Barbarian. There is no rule that states that. If you get Share Spells from one class but not another then you have Share Spells.
I don't see that the oracle's mount "gains" share spells. It just doesn't lose it like the cavalier's does. I don't see anything that says it still wouldn't lose share spells when you start being a cavalier.
To me it looks like you're saying that a druid/cavalier with a wolf "mount" would still have share spells, is this what you're saying?
Nice Necro. :)
Yes, a Druid/Cavalier with a wolf for a mount combined animal companion/mount levels. The combined AC would have Share Spells because that is granted from the Druid side.
This would be a side effect of the FAQ stating that two classes that both have compatible animal companion features (such as a Wolf AC and a Wolf Mount) stack for purposes of determining abilities.
Note: I never stated that an Oracle with an animal companion gains share spells. I stated "when" it does.
I did not check to see if it does or not but if it is worded the same as any other 'gives an animal companion as per a druid' then yes, it does get share spells because that is part of the animal companion features. It is not part of the druid features.
Ie. All animal companions get Share Spells unless stated otherwise. This is because it is a feature of the Animal Companions, not of druids.
Why wouldn't you? The Cavalier grants you those abilities.
I am really not sure what the issue you are trying to point out is (could be because I am tired).
If you are a multiclass Druid/Cavalier you and your Animal Companion (if you stack the classes for your AC rather than getting two separate animals) get the best of both worlds.
Due to being a Druid Animal Companion your Animal Companion/Mount gets Share Spells.
Due to being a Cavalier Mount your Mount/Animal Companion gets free Light Armor Proficiency and "Always Combat Trained".
You get both. This is basically covered by the FAQ when it states that Druid and Cavalier levels stack to determine the animal's abilities.
|
As the OP quoted, a cavalier's mount is a modified Animal Companion; it gains a bonus feat instead of Share Spells. (Not to mention, in the case of a horse, free promotion of hooves to primary attacks) Classes that grant animal companions don't come with that bonus feat but instead get share spells.
So, I'm not convinced you can take a level in cavalier and then advance the mount by taking levels in something else that grants an AC. Or vice versa. I'm especially dubious when the critter in question is something other than a horse or camel. (or riding dog, for the wee munchkin cavaliers)
However, there's nothing stopping you from having two separate critters: one each from your cavalier and other classes.
|
|
Why wouldn't you? The Cavalier grants you those abilities.
Because the very same thing that is taking away Share Spells is also granting Armor Proficiency/combat training. I can understand you saying that you can keep Share Spells, but I can't understand you saying that then you would also get to keep the other benefits of being a cavalier mount.
So, I'm not convinced you can take a level in cavalier and then advance the mount by taking levels in something else that grants an AC. Or vice versa. I'm especially dubious when the critter in question is something other than a horse or camel. (or riding dog, for the wee munchkin cavaliers)
I think the rest of us are ;)
Cavalier: Do animal companion levels from the druid class stack with cavalier mount levels?
If the animal is on the cavalier mount list and on the list of animal companions for your other class, your cavalier and druid levels stack to determine the animal's abilities. If the animal is not on the cavalier mount list, the druid levels do not stack and you must have different animals (one an animal companion, one a cavalier mount).
For example, if you are Medium druid and you choose a horse companion, levels in cavalier stack to determine the horse's abilities. If you are a Medium druid and you choose a bird companion, levels in cavalier do not stack to determine the bird's abilities, and you must choose a second creature to be your mount (or abandon the bird and select an animal companion you can use as a mount).
This same answer applies to multiclassed cavalier/rangers.
(Note that the design team discourages players from having more than one companion creature at a time, as those creatures tend to be much weaker than a single creature affected by these stacking rules, and add to the bookkeeping for playing that character.)
If you're worrying about Oracle vs Cavalier Mount overlaps, I'd suggest just taking Standard Bearer Cavalier; you get Banner at lv1 instead of Mount at lv1.
thats a point - what are you actually gaining from Cavalier that is important to your character?
Prepare for necro:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/improved-share-spells
Someone was asking how to do it without a dip - here's how: be really really high level... wow.