Paladin Question:


Pathfinder Society

1/5

First, I know James Jacobs has weighed in on this in the negative. However, he used several leaps of faith to get here.

Second, I know this in answered in ISWG, but ISWG is not in the core assumptions.

Question:

Yes or no:

Paladins of Calistria and/or Desna, are they PFS legal?

Scarab Sages 5/5

No. You can only worship a deity that is one step away from LG.

The reasoning is because the beliefs of the deities are just to far from the lawful goodness that a paly should be striving to maintain.

1/5

Source? I find that under cleric, but it is nowhere in the Paladin listing.

Sovereign Court 4/5

Check the Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play, page 10.

Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play, p. 10:
Characters can elect to worship any deity listed in a table of gods in the Core Rulebook, The Inner Sea World Guide, Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Gods and Magic, or any other source listed as an official Additional Resource. Characters may elect to worship an evil god, but must always be within one alignment step of their chosen deity.

Emphasis mine. Although it's paired with a sentence about evil deities, it applies to all deities because of 'always'.

5/5 *

As an addendum to Deussu's post, until very recently Paladins were in a gray area because, like you said, they are not required in the CRB to straight worship a deity. This was changed in version 4.3 of the guide, requiring Paladins to also select a deity. This is a PFS specific ruling.

Due to that, plus Deussu's rule from above, Paladins must worship a LG, NG or LN deity as they must be LG themselves.

3/5

but if you like paladins of calistria, you can legally be a paladin of dranngvit from gods and magic pg 47, which is (kind of) the dwarven version of her.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

First of all Arizhel,

While I don’t really listen much to James Jacobs on rules issues (he himself has said many times he’s not a rules guy), when it comes to roleplay and creative issues, I listen to him very much so. He’s the roleplay/lore guy.

It is not a leap of faith to say that a player trying to play a Paladin as a worshiper of a deity with an alignment two removed from LG, is not roleplaying LG correctly. That’s what James Jacobs said. The only reason to disagree with this, is because you want to do something that doesn’t fit within that statement.

Basically, to be a worshiper of a deity, you want to follow their tenets as closely as possible. And their tenets and dogma are going to be colored by the deity’s alignment. Also, different deities have aspects of their faith that a LG person just couldn’t adhere to. Some LN deities would be ok with unjustified death, as long as the law is being followed. And that is one step away from LG. That would be something a Paladin might have to get an atonement for.

But, the reason the rule was put into place for Pathfinder Society Organized Play, that a Paladin couldn’t be a generic Paladin of “Goodness”, is because it gave people the ability to claim they were a Paladin of a deity like Pharasma, Nethys, Callistria, et. al. By saying something like, “Well I don’t worship them, I just revere them.” Thus putting them in a weird gray area, where, “Do they get feats, traits, spells of their deity?” The easy answer for the player is to say no. But then how is a GM to have his NPCs react to said Paladin when the circumstances dictate a particular reaction (there are a few scenarios where bonuses and/or penalties would be incurred on a social interaction roll based on the deity of the character).

TL;DR: But to answer your question more succinctly, as has been mentioned above, the Guide to Organized Play quite explicitly lays it out. A Paladin needs to worship a specific deity, and it must be within one step of LG (LG, LN, or NG).

Dark Archive 4/5

HOW DO YOU RUN A BROTHEL WHEN YOUR A PALADIN?

Liberty's Edge 5/5

Arshea could be an interesting choice.

Dark Archive 4/5 5/5 ****

Makes me think that it would be an interesting role-playing experiment to play a Chelish Paladin. After all, their society is definitely lawful, just not all that good.

With the right choice of dieties (after all Iomedae is Chelish), it could be interesting. He'd be tending towards the lawful more than good, but would be in conflict with society over the devils, but not about order.

Just a thought experiment for now...


Mazlith wrote:
HOW DO YOU RUN A BROTHEL WHEN YOUR A PALADIN?

In our Jade Regent campaign a paladin of Iomedae was sent into a brothel in Magnimar and came into conflict with a priestess of Calistria. Also a Hellknight was involved as a looming threat and then an ally. If anyone is interested here is the link to the campaign journal:

http://gutwrenchingrpg.org/jr/narrative/jade-regent-book-i/

The relevant chapters are the Interlude: Magnimar section.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Florida—Melbourne

Mazlith wrote:
HOW DO YOU RUN A BROTHEL WHEN YOUR A PALADIN?

Well it helps if you take the Remove Disease virtue.

Grand Lodge 2/5

Silbeg wrote:

Makes me think that it would be an interesting role-playing experiment to play a Chelish Paladin. After all, their society is definitely lawful, just not all that good.

With the right choice of dieties (after all Iomedae is Chelish), it could be interesting. He'd be tending towards the lawful more than good, but would be in conflict with society over the devils, but not about order.

Just a thought experiment for now...

I can totally see a Chelish Paladin, it's called a Hellknight.

Lawful Good, but devoted to Abadar. "Human nature has shown many times that men cannot be trusted. Some must be sacrificed, so that more will follow the ways of righteousness." It's the eternally conflicted character.

Shadow Lodge 5/5

Chelish paladins are a difficult breed .....especiallly in eyes of the ten ...I emphasize this one because I'm currently running the arc for one ....and it gets TOUGH at times ....cheliax faction missions are flat punishing for paladins ..TBH that's one combo I would never do .....ever

Grand Lodge 4/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.

How about a Taldan Paladin of Sarenrae? Or is that a combo that requires an Atonement at the beginning of every scenario?

Silver Crusade 4/5

kinevon wrote:
How about a Taldan Paladin of Sarenrae? Or is that a combo that requires an Atonement at the beginning of every scenario?

I've seen pregen Kyra in the Taldor faction before.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Fromper wrote:
kinevon wrote:
How about a Taldan Paladin of Sarenrae? Or is that a combo that requires an Atonement at the beginning of every scenario?
I've seen pregen Kyra in the Taldor faction before.

At the opera in Oppara, or trying to get some of her Dawnflowers out of danger?

That is an unwise choice, surely, but not one that is in direct conflict with being a Lawful Paladin...

Or do Taldane Paladins who are Sarenrites get a blanket gimme on being illegal but lawful?

Spoiler:
How would you handle a Paladin of any sort playing in You Only Die Twice?

Wouldn't drinking from the chalice in order to play Undead be a deceit or lie?

Liberty's Edge 5/5

I've really enjoyed running Among the Living for the Kyra pregen. Telling a new player that they worship a forbidden deity in the country they are adventuring in pulls them into the story. I often describe a paladin of Iomadae making eye contact with her, following a channel. It's fun to include the added tension of a blown cover to the game.

1/5

kinevon wrote:
Fromper wrote:
kinevon wrote:
How about a Taldan Paladin of Sarenrae? Or is that a combo that requires an Atonement at the beginning of every scenario?
I've seen pregen Kyra in the Taldor faction before.

At the opera in Oppara, or trying to get some of her Dawnflowers out of danger?

That is an unwise choice, surely, but not one that is in direct conflict with being a Lawful Paladin...

Or do Taldane Paladins who are Sarenrites get a blanket gimme on being illegal but lawful?

** spoiler omitted **

I believe there is a campaign ruling that evil done in the name of faction missions (specifically for them, mind) had no reprecussions on Paladin's alignments.

I think its a dreadful ruling and would never run one of my own characters like that, but there it is...

Dark Archive 4/5

While evil done in the name of a faction mission has no bearing on alignment, if you break your paladin's code, you still require an atonement or you are now a fallen paladin.

The paladin's code is more stringent than a cleric's alignment restriction.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

Adam Mogyorodi wrote:
The paladin's code is more stringent than a cleric's alignment restriction.

I don't remember seeing that in the rules. There is such a thing as a ex-cleric as well, and they pay the same increased cost for atonement spells as paladins when they fall. (I'm looking at you, Lawful-Neutral cleric of Asmodeus. You've been acting awful Chaotic lately...)

Dark Archive 4/5

Mystic Lemur wrote:
Adam Mogyorodi wrote:
The paladin's code is more stringent than a cleric's alignment restriction.
I don't remember seeing that in the rules. There is such a thing as a ex-cleric as well, and they pay the same increased cost for atonement spells as paladins when they fall. (I'm looking at you, Lawful-Neutral cleric of Asmodeus. You've been acting awful Chaotic lately...)

Players are not responsible for alignment infractions as a result of faction missions. However, breaking the code as a paladin is not always a matter of alignment infraction. Lying, for example, is a fall. So is any evil act. It's not going to affect the paladin's alignment, and he's still Lawful Good. He's just an ex-paladin.

5/5 5/55/55/5

Mystic Lemur wrote:
Adam Mogyorodi wrote:
The paladin's code is more stringent than a cleric's alignment restriction.
I don't remember seeing that in the rules. There is such a thing as a ex-cleric as well, and they pay the same increased cost for atonement spells as paladins when they fall. (I'm looking at you, Lawful-Neutral cleric of Asmodeus. You've been acting awful Chaotic lately...)

The faction mission pass on your alignment does not apply to paladins

Linky

(poster) Does this karmic shift extend to the requirement that paladins who use poison (or lie, or otherwise break their oaths) need to atone to recover their divine powers?

(Mike Brock)Nope. Paladins are bound by a higher authority than a faction mission. They will still need to decide whether completing the faction mission is worth an atonement.

Community / Forums / Organized Play / Pathfinder Society / Paladin Question: All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.