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Well they did not even SHOW what it looks like. Plus Sony did not answer big questions alot of people have about the system.
1. Will it play used games?
2. Will it be online only?
3. Will Sony now start charging to play games online on PSN like Microsoft does with Xbox?
Sony been hyping up this presentation for 3 weeks, and they did not have the info most people wanted.
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My guess would be...
1. No
2. Yes
3. Yes
...considering the dumb as **** business practices that have gotten popular lately.
1.) Yes. That's been kicked around for years and was rumored to be something in the works for the current generation of consoles before they were released. It was unfeasible then and remains so now.
2.) Yes and no. It's already confirmed some GAMES will be, but Sony is likely leery of cutting out a good chunk of potential console buyers. DRM increases profits for PC games by eliminating piracy to an extent. Doesn't really do the same for consoles.
3.) That's the one I think is up in the air. I'm not certain WHY they didn't make the PS3 paid online, and their business practices haven't changed significantly since that release to my knowledge, so maybe not. Coupled with the fact that if they are a paid service and get hacked again that will BE THEIR ASS right there, makes me lean towards no but still with a solid possibility of yes.
My thoughts on the matter there.
The playing of used games has not been officially confirmed, though it should be noted that the European court has already ruled it is illegal to prevent people from selling their digitally-purchased games. So Sony will have to take that into account (or not sell the console in Europe and lose tens of millions of sales).
According to rumour, it will play used games, but Sony will take charge of the process. You have to sell your licence through Sony's system to another player. Apparently you may not have to even send the disc off, as the other player can then download the game and your disc becomes useless.
As for online only, no. The tech specs confirm it will ship with a Blu-Ray player. You will be able to play PS1/2/3 games via a cloud gaming service (which used to be Gaikai, and will apparently now be called PlayStation World), but Sony have not confirmed if you will have to repurchase all of your existing PS1/2/3 games via this service (PS3 games you have already registered through PSN, presumably not, but with older games you'll presumably have no choice). There is some talk of making it subscription-based.
As for PSN, yes, you will have to pay for it. Sony are not idiotic enough to miss out on a revenue stream like that, not when they are in the financial straits that they are.
Overall, there is some good stuff about the machine (the memory in particular is a huge improvement) but it's pretty underwhelming. The graphics technology is older (though not as old as some thought it would be) and will become outdated very quickly. The sharing/media stuff is nice, but it's optional fluff at best and Sony based almost their entire presentation around it, which shows potentially a misunderstanding of their market. The integration with Vita is nice, but again it's trying to prop up a failed product and will likely be unsuccessful.
The most important thing for gamers is the games, and these were comprehensively underwhelming. A new KILLZONE? Not a top-tier franchise to excite people. DRIVECLUB? Dull. A Myst-clone? A bit behind the times. WATCH DOGS looks like it'll be decent, but it's not a newly-announced game. DIABLO 3 PS? Great, but it's been out on PC for ages and it's hard to get excited over a port, especially one with as mixed a reception as that game.
What the announcement was crying out for was some heavy-hitters. FINAL FANTASY XV was announced, but nothing was shown from it. We know Bethesda are working on FALLOUT 4 and it'll be next gen (as it will launch some time after the PS4 and presumably next X-Box launch), so announcing that might have been a good idea, but it's probably to early to show anything. Rockstar showing a PS4 version of GTA5 would have been great, but no dice.
Not showing the console itself was also moronic. Microsoft are probably taking notes on all of this (one of their guys even Tweeted that not showing the design was silly) and holding back so when they do announce the next X-Box, it will be a lot more impressive.
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Update: PS4 will NOT require an always-on internet connection. The Sony rep says, rather hilariously, that he recognises some PS gamers are 'anti-social'.
http://kotaku.com/5985874/ps4-will-not-require-an-always+online-connection
Even more of a relief (especially for retailers like GameStop in the US and Game in the UK) is the news that preowned games can still be sold
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-02-21-sony-tells-eurogamer-playstati on-4-will-not-block-used-games
I can see Microsoft running back and ripping out the preowned-blocking systems on their new X-Box otherwise, combined with PS4 coming out earlier, this could seriously dent their own prospects.
I have to give Sony some credit, everyone I spoke to thought that they were going to FOLLOW the next X-box by a least a YEAR. This will blind-side Microsoft which could cause some hastily decisions and possible mistakes. To make matters worse for Microsoft, others might come to the same conclusions with their history of the Red Ring of Death, and make customers wherry buying their systems.
Even if they end up releasing after X-box, this could cause quite the scramble granting them a hefty lean to a WIN in the councils wars that they needed after the poor kick-off of the PS3.
That's actually cool they won't require always on connection. And that they're not going to discourage used sales/rentals. Given that, more than piracy, is often the real reason for DRM (because these things aren't illegal but do cut dramatically into sales), it's rather forward thinking. (Or backward thinking, depending on your POV.)
I have to give Sony some credit, everyone I spoke to thought that they were going to FOLLOW the next X-box by a least a YEAR. This will blind-side Microsoft which could cause some hastily decisions and possible mistakes. To make matters worse for Microsoft, others might come to the same conclusions with their history of the Red Ring of Death, and make customers wherry buying their systems.
Even if they end up releasing after X-box, this could cause quite the scramble granting them a hefty lean to a WIN in the councils wars that they needed after the poor kick-off of the PS3.
How are those rose-colored glasses?
You're pretty much theorizing that Microsoft will drop the ball entirely while Sony releasing an announcement -- again, they didn't show it -- puts them beyond Microsoft's reach.
Honestly, I don't think the PS4 or the Xbox 720 is going to shake up the gaming universe all that much, at least from a console perspective. It'll be like upgrading a PC -- you get the new bells and whistles, but you needed those to stay competitive. We're not seeing a tablet-style revolution here.
I have both the XBOX 360 & the PS3. The only 2 things I care about from a PS3 perspective are the exclusive games (Uncharted, Infamous, Killzone are the only ones I care about) and the blu-ray player. That's it. Even accounting for the fact that I have to shell out for XBOX Live while I can play online with PS3 for free, the XBOX provides a better experience with respect to:
1. Controllers - totally subjective but I like the Xbox controllers better
2. Better/smoother Online play - yeah, it sucks to pay for it, but it has a far better play:issue ratio than PS3 has had for me.
3. Interface - even with Microsoft stupidly changing the UI annually and cluttering it up with crap I don't care about, it's STILL more intuitive/faster than the PS3.
4. User admin - I can create, modify, delete & change user account permissions at whim on the Xbox. My kids have gotten old enough that I want to relax some parental controls on the PS3 and every time I attempt it, I get some "Can't do that at this time" (or somesuch) message. If you're wasting my time, you're not earning loyalty.
Best case, Sony & Microsoft will continue to counter the worst elements of each other. If the PS4 can play used games and that forces Microsoft's hand, all well and good. If the PS4 gets a better UI and clears up all of the negatives listed above, I'll look at it.
However, at the end of the day, as has been said upthread, it's all about the games. I'm loyal to IPs and game series, not the freaking system it runs on.
YMMV.
I doubt those are rose-colored glasses.
My experience with the PS3 and X360:
1. Controller - totally subjective, but I like the DualShock controller better.
2) Online play - never had problems with PS3 online that would make Live worth paying for (I used both for a while), and it's free (or rather, MS is the only one that makes you pay for something that's free everywhere else). Live has no benefit other than party chat.
3. Interface - the PS3's XMB is faster, easier, more intuitive, and blows everything Xbox has out of the water, from the blades through 'avatars' to today's trainwreck (confusing, slow, constantly changing, inappropriately riddled with ads, etc). All systems should aspire to the XMB.
:D
But yeah, in the end it's about the games! We'll all agree on that, I'm sure. (I also agree that neither the PS4 or X720 are going to shake up anything - well, the 720 might crash and burn if they have anything like restrictions to used game sales or a gimpy-sized HDD.)
I did forget to give the PS3 props for avoiding the XBox's RROD syndrome in its early years!
I am disappointed by this development.
It means I will have to upgrade my PC soon. I was so happy with consoles keeping all the requirements down. :(
Backwards compatibility will come through the Gaikai streaming service. The REALLY big question is how much do we have to pay for the games we already own.
I'm super excited for the PS4. I think they had a very strong showing in this announcement.
Price will be a tricky thing. They CAN'T afford to take a huge loss on each unit again. They made the right decision to go with an x86 architecture to bring down R&D costs and factory costs the Cell had associated with it.
I will be very interested in Microsoft's announcements. I had a 360 for a while (and still have my ps3) but I couldn't justify paying for Live when there was only 1 or 2 games that I personally played online there.
I have to give Sony some credit, everyone I spoke to thought that they were going to FOLLOW the next X-box by a least a YEAR. This will blind-side Microsoft which could cause some hastily decisions and possible mistakes.
Call me crazy, but I imagine that Microsoft is anything but blind-sided by this announcement. There just weren't that many surprises.
How are those rose-colored glasses?
Ummm, I own a X-box 360 and no PS3. I am speaking from designer perspective. Maybe I have been out of the loop, but it is my opinion that most believed that the PS4 would be released after the next X-Box. So I assumed, perhaps incorrectly, that this is what Microsoft thought as well.
-Hexen
Confirmed no backwards compatibility = me not planning to purchase a PS4. I guess that takes me down to just owning a WiiU for the 8th generation consoles.
Seriously? How could they **** that up?!
Then again, friend of mine told me that Sony has a long history of inferior hardware. Apparently the Playstation was better for movies than it was for games despite the fact that many awesome games were released on it as well as on the Playstation 2 back in the golden age of gaming...
Backwards compatibility is going the way of the dodo (or so it has been predicted by many in the industry - IGN and other sites have had articles on it). So it's not a surprise.
With that said, it's disappointing (if nothing else for convenience purposes). I would have thought, though, that Sony would have attempted to make everything on the PSN would be playable on the PS4. There's value in keeping a single service and its products across multiple consoles.
The next Xbox won't have backwards compatibility (even the 360 didn't, really, except for a very small number of games which each required a mini-software download). So questioning Sony's decision is... strange.
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Backwards compatibility is going the way of the dodo (or so it has been predicted by many in the industry - IGN and other sites have had articles on it). So it's not a surprise.
With that said, it's disappointing (if nothing else for convenience purposes). I would have thought, though, that Sony would have attempted to make everything on the PSN would be playable on the PS4. There's value in keeping a single service and its products across multiple consoles.
The next Xbox won't have backwards compatibility (even the 360 didn't, really, except for a very small number of games which each required a mini-software download). So questioning Sony's decision is... strange.
No backwards compatibility seriously hurt the 360s early sales. It drasticly reduces people willing to buy one because there is no access to the existing library. For instance, I don't have a PS3 but there are games on it that I would like to play. I might be convinced to buy a PS4 if I know it will give me access to all of the PS3 games and the next generation. But I would still be on the fence about that purchase. Without it, the PS4 holds no interest for me other than now I will need to upgrade my PC because games are designed with the console specks in mind for cross-system releases.
Seriously? How could they **** that up?!
The PS3 and PS4 are designed around completely different chipsets which work in completely different ways. Part of the reason the very first PS3 model - the one that was backwards-compatible with the PS2 - was so expensive was because it had to have a dedicated processor to handle PS2 games. Sony removed it because it meant they could drop the cost of the machine, which was more important for them.
This solution makes more sense to Sony. They remove a cost issue from the PS4 and also have an alternate solution with the PlayStation World/Gaikai streaming service.
It should be noted as well that so far only American users seem to be really complaining about the streaming idea, due to their antiquated internet speeds. I live in the UK, hardly the cutting-edge of internet connectivity, and can use services like OnLive and Gaikai with no problem whatsoever, and that's only with a 30MB connection (and no DL cap). Japan and Korea are far more advanced still. The US providers really need to sort this issue out ASAP.
If it keeps the cost down, I'll be more than happy to throw any games I want to play in my PS3.
If you purchased any PS1/PS2/PS3 games in the PSN then I am sure you will be able to redownload them at no extra cost and play them in an emulated environment.
Can you link to that? The most recent I'd seen was day one that would not be functionality but was planned for the future. If they have officially stated that there is no plan to have the PS1/PS2/PS3 games on the PSN for PS4 I would very much like to read that.
The Gaikai service would likely be hosting that emulated environment...I don't see how it makes sense to not have that functionality when the Gaikai guy mentioned it on stage.
The redownload part is speculation on my end as there has been no official announcement on PSN.
Thanks, I just went back and checked over one of the IGN articles I had looked at regarding this: here
It does not support the titles natively, but there is indeed possibility through Gaikai that they will be able to emulate the environment.
That's a catching point for me. If there is absolutely no way to play my digitally bought stuff AND the cost is high...well...that's a harder sell to me.
If the cost is USD $299, and absolutely no way to play my digitally bought stuff...well...that's a hard sell but not a deal breaker.
If the cost is USD $299 and there are plans to allow backwards compatibility through emulation/Gaikai...then I'm IN!
Why? I just heard a news story that mentioned console sales being low and the future of consoles being in question. Is this a last desperate attempt to rescue consoles or bury them permanently? I am guessing the former since microsoft is banking everything on consoles and tablets.
I ask why because there seems little need to upgrade consoles yet. They have plenty of capacity to handle what developers are asking of them. So the upgrade isn't going to make games better... it's just going to force you to rebuy a whole new catalog of games.
Why? I just heard a news story that mentioned console sales being low and the future of consoles being in question. Is this a last desperate attempt to rescue consoles or bury them permanently? I am guessing the former since microsoft is banking everything on consoles and tablets.
I ask why because there seems little need to upgrade consoles yet. They have plenty of capacity to handle what developers are asking of them. So the upgrade isn't going to make games better... it's just going to force you to rebuy a whole new catalog of games.
Because game designers are complaining that the consoles can't keep up. They simultaneously have to design for the 7 year old consoles and new PCs that blow them away. Many publishers wont back games that they can't port to consols, so the PC market is stagnating. The next generation of games is waiting on the next consoles that can keep up. The engines that are now being designed will not work on the current hardware.
Why? I just heard a news story that mentioned console sales being low
Console sales are low(er) because we are approaching the 8th year of this current console generation. Nearly everyone who will end up with a current-gen console already has one. That said, the Xbox continues to post sales in the millions of consoles every holiday season, so sales are still astonishingly high for the tail end of a console life-cycle.
and the future of consoles being in question.
The success of the future of consoles is not even a little in question. Consoles are doing great.
Is this a last desperate attempt to rescue consoles or bury them permanently? I am guessing the former since microsoft is banking everything on consoles and tablets.
There is nothing (and I really mean nothing) to indicate that consoles are in any need of being rescued.
I ask why because there seems little need to upgrade consoles yet. They have plenty of capacity to handle what developers are asking of them.
No, they don't. Developers are being forced to create new games for hardware that is literally eight or nine years old.
So the upgrade isn't going to make games better... it's just going to force you to rebuy a whole new catalog of games.
Again, this isn't true. Why do you believe that it is?
Again, this isn't true. Why do you believe that it is?
I have seen demos of what my PS3 is capable of and those demos are light years more advanced than the games being made for the console. So clearly the console is capable of much much more than the software people are demanding of it. If they want more power why not use more of the power that is already there? If we are both telling the truth and we both are as far as I know, then the software people are being disingenuous for some unknown reason...
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Again, this isn't true. Why do you believe that it is?I have seen demos of what my PS3 is capable of and those demos are light years more advanced than the games being made for the console.
I'm going to hazard a wild guess that you don't work in software development.
The ability to run a tightly-controlled demo is very different from the ability to handle a full-fledged title using the same technologies.
Lest anyone forget, the PlayStation 3 boasts a grand total of 256 megs of system memory, and 256 megs of graphical memory. All of these consoles are fast approaching dinosaur status.
I have to agree that even with Sony's promised "10 year console lifetime" of the PS3, I'm glad that it is time for a new one.
A tech demo doesn't need to worry about a whole lot, it just needs to worry about what it is doing in its very small world. When you add in the various parts of a full product (networking, the bigger world, more items/characters/art/etc) then it quickly becomes apparent that the current gen of hardware can't support what we gamers have come to expect.
They probably will still "support" the PS3 until year 10. But they are going to focus heavily on this new hardware. With the more standardized x86 architecture, 8gb of gDDR5, AMD GPU, they are setting themselves up for a little more future-proofability than the PS3 was with its hard to develop for custom architecture and low (nowadays) memory size
No I don't work in software development.
But I was trained in computer engineering. Why should a demo that can produce stunning results with that 256 megs be impossible to replicate in a game? It makes no sense.
It can, possibly, if you go back to ye olde early PS2 era of 5 minute load screens on any game more complicated than a turn based RPG.
But to get a smooth, fast load or to make an entire open world area that loads/renders DURING play (and runs all sorts of character routines and such in the background) you need exponentially more memory.
The tech demo is just that, it pushes the limits of the tech to extremes in order to impress the crowd. That's fine because hey, it's only a small area and it'll only be run for a short time, it's good yeah?
But pushing the tech to its limits across every tiny space of the world for extended periods leads to imminent breakdown in it.
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I was sorta "meh" on the whole announcement. None of the titles that are confirmed or rumored so far generate any excitement for me. Killzone is an ok series but I don't know if it'll push systems. I'd have rather seen a new Twisted Metal make an appearance, some sort of offering shown by Namco (be it Soul Calibur or Tekken), and a non-Squaresoft RPG. Oh, and when I saw the news that the had a deal with Blizzard I got excited until I saw it was Diablo 3...yippee a game that's at least a year old or more, and one that is in some regards failing.
I do like that used games and online only is a no-go though, good for them. No backwards compatibility however, so I'll be waiting awhile as I'd prefer to be able to trade my ps3 in to help defray the costs. At this point I may just hold out n play on my ps3 for awhile longer, especially if the new CoD is available on it as well.
Ah, and on the issue of DRM and piracy. I'm not convinced that piracy is that big an issue for the PS3. I know I used to have a modified Wii in Thailand but the truth is I like being able to go online with my Ps3 too much to get it modded. As long as consoles have some really good online offerings people will be much less likely to bootleg.
Oh, and for God's sake, no more Playstation All Stars games. Sorry Sony you ain't Nintendo and we don't give enough of a damn about Sony characters to fill a fighting game roster with.
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Speak for yourself buddy, I know I'd play a new Jak and Daxter game before the latest Mario any day of the week.
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I have to give Sony some credit, everyone I spoke to thought that they were going to FOLLOW the next X-box by a least a YEAR. This will blind-side Microsoft which could cause some hastily decisions and possible mistakes.Call me crazy, but I imagine that Microsoft is anything but blind-sided by this announcement. There just weren't that many surprises.
Yeah Sony sorta goofed releasing so much later than the Xbox in a way, for them not to compete in the same launch year this time would have been foolish. I'm sure Microsoft saw this coming.
I will say though, I was surprised when I started looking at market share for previous systems. Sony did an amazing job trouncing the competition with their previous two systems, and this time just sorta hung in there with everyone. I'd imagine that it's considered somewhat of a failure by many Sony folks.
Actually, I don't own a PS3.
That lack of a new Jak and Daxter mang. ;)
More seriously, I bought a 360 because all my high school friends had one and I needed to play Halo with them, and then I never really saved up teh dosh to buy a PS3.
Though there's a surprising amount of people saying All-Stars is a pretty fun game so I'm not sure where the hate is coming from.
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Ah went Xbox? Yeah I had one myself but ended up going Ps3 later. Honestly they're way too similar I suppose. I think Sony has a slight edge on the first party front, but it ain't by much. Truth be told the only thing I really miss from Xbox is Halo.
All-Stars was pretty poorly received. Also, the damage mechanic was sorta whacky. They should have just copied Smash Bros. with Sony characters. Even then sorta meh in my opinion.
Maybe I'll fire up Jak and Daxter, I think I got the HD collection when they were all half off while back =)
Ah went Xbox? Yeah I had one myself but ended up going Ps3 later. Honestly they're way too similar I suppose. I think Sony has a slight edge on the first party front, but it ain't by much. Truth be told the only thing I really miss from Xbox is Halo.
All-Stars was pretty poorly received. Also, the damage mechanic was sorta whacky. They should have just copied Smash Bros. with Sony characters. Even then sorta meh in my opinion.
Maybe I'll fire up Jak and Daxter, I think I got the HD collection when they were all half off while back =)
I actually do like All-Stars quite a bit. It has its issues. A lot of them. But I'd be interested to see where the new dev crew takes it.
The whole "Disconnected from Server" issue, well, the networking code in general, is kinda poor. I mean, you developed a game where the main draw is online play, yet 3 out of 4 matches get disconnected when on a WIRED connection. Don't even get me started on the Vita version (which I still love to play).
Smash Bros. is a system seller for me...so until Wii U gets that out of the gate then the system isn't sellin' for me :)
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Oh, and a side comment but I'm just putting it out there. I don't see Nintendo making a new home console after the Wii U. I think they'll go the way of Sega and just make software for others. They may keep the handheld stuff we'll see.Can I ask why you say that? I haven't seen anything to indicate Nintendo's getting out of the console business.
Wii came out of the gate with a gimmick that helped sell, the new wii doesn't offer anything new to bring to the table. I can easily see sales drying up next holiday season. Nintendo home consoles haven't had anything close to market dominance since the snes. I just got a feeling that if wii u doesn't work out that's it for them. Wii u reminds me too much of the dreamcast
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Wii moved about 100 million units, while the PS and XBox moved 75 million. Hardly domination, especially with how Nintendo was during the 8-bit and 16-bit days. This new system isn't looking to have any momentum like the Wii did. I think Nintendo is going to have to lean on handheld sales more, and even that market is coming under attack from iOS and Android phones/tablets.
Now given, the PS division has posted some losses which aren't necessarily helping Sony out. Perhaps Nintendo hangs in there just to see if Sony calls it on the whole console business.
I personally would be okay with that, as the only consoles I've purchased/been given recently have been Nintendo Handhelds - a GBA a few years back, a DS this past XMas, and probably a 3DS this coming birthday.
Sony hasn't interested me since the earliest days of the PS2, and even then only got my attention because it had backwards compatibility with PSX games. And I've never owned an XBox of any stripe.
Wii moved about 100 million units, while the PS and XBox moved 75 million.
Now shall we factor in handheld console sales?
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Yeah the controller has piqued my interest a bit, but it just looks cumbersome too. I haven't had the chance to play around on it though to be honest. I guess my issue with the Wii U is it didn't make a huge splash, and with the new Xbox n PS3 coming I think it'll be another Nintendo system that is very underpowered and thus much more difficult to get great 3rd party software for.
Don't get me wrong, I love Nintendo as a software developer and that's pretty much the only reason I'd buy a Nintendo system at this point, and I do wonder how much software they'd move if they just threw in the towel and produced for the other two guys.
I can easily see Sony going down in flames and being bought out by Samsung, who would then take over the PlayStation brand (which is still a valuable brand name, despite Sony's troubles).
As for Nintendo, the Wii U hasn't excited people like the Wii did. The biggest problem is this perception that it's only moderately more powerful than the PS3 and 360, relying on years-old technology. Combined with the fact that the controller gimmick is not hugely compelling (certainly not compared to the massive performance increases from PS4 and the next X-Box) this time around, I can see the console fading after a bit. Not a total diaster like the Dreamcast, but more of a damp squib like the GameCube (although, unless Wii U's sales pick up dramatically this year, it'll struggle to match even the GameCube's 21 million).
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I own a PS3 and X-Box 360. That said, the PS4 will be a day one purchase for me, which is normal for me.
The new X-Box.... no. I only bought an X-Box 360 for Gears and Halo, specifically Gears of War 1-3, Halo Reach, and Halo 4. I've started them here and there but never more than an hour or two. The games didn't grab my attention and any games that come out for both systems wind up as PS purchases due to my controller preference. Personally, the PS exclusives are more my taste anyway (like Uncharted and Ratchet and Clank).
I got a Wii on a whim one day, bought Zelda and Metroid Prime Trilogy (my Nintendo staples), hated the Nunchuk controller and let it collect dust for months before getting obliterated by Gamestop's crappy trade-in values. The Wii U doesn't interest me in the slightest. Nintendo's last great console was the Gamecube. The game support alone made the Cube an excellent investment, Resident Evil, Metroid Prime,Eternal Darkness, Beyond Good and Evil, etc.
Wii titles were weak in general with the exception of the Mario franchise, and the Wii U doesn't look to be any better.