I've run into some confusion when mixing Natural Attacks when a player made a Catfolk Savage Warrior Fighter and feel I need some confirmation of things.
Firstly, Does the Player get full STR bonus on his natural attacks if they were a primary attack originally? As I understand it, when weilding a weapon and making natural attacks, while they mix, you take -5 as they're secondaries and by extention they're treated as Secondary for damage too. Is that correct?
Secondly, is there anyway to give a Natural Attaker iterative attacks? Or at least give them full Str on their "secondary" natural attacks? My player really likes the flavor of attacking with his attacks in this way, but I almost feel like he's gimping himself.
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No.
All Natural Attacks become Secondary when combined with Manufactured Weapons. They take a -5 to-hit penalty, and only get 1/2 Str bonus to damage.
There is no way to get iterative attacks with Natural Attacks (unless you only have one and pick up Multiattack) or full Strength on Secondary Natural Attacks.
One other way to get iterative attacks with natural weapons: a monk using flurry of blows with feral combat training.
Actually, on the subject of Feral Combat Training, that gives my player another crazy idea. Since Unarmed Strikes are "treated as both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapons" for various effects, could he just treat them as natural attacks?
For the purposes of Claws being "his thing", Can he ake his claw attacks as Primary attacks at full power, then make his Unarmed Strikes as his Secondary attacks? Imposing -5 & 1/2 STR on those attack chains? I mean, it sorta gimps him even more, but at least he's getting all of his attacks...
Edited for Clarity.
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No.
All Natural Attacks become Secondary when combined with Manufactured Weapons. They take a -5 to-hit penalty, and only get 1/2 Str bonus to damage.
There is no way to get iterative attacks with Natural Attacks (unless you only have one and pick up Multiattack) or full Strength on Secondary Natural Attacks.
The multiattack thing you are talking about is an Animal Companion exclusive feature.
Actually, on the subject of Feral Combat Training, that gives my player another crazy idea. Since Unarmed Strikes are "treated as both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapons" for various effects, could he just treat them as natural attacks?
For the purposes of Claws being "his thing", Can he ake his claw attacks as Primary attacks at full power, then make his Unarmed Strikes as his Secondary attacks? Imposing -5 & 1/2 STR on those attack chains? I mean, it sorta gimps him even more, but at least he's getting all of his attacks...
Edited for Clarity.
No, feral combat training basically makes the natural weapon it is taken with a 'monk' weapon so you can sub it into the flurry routine.
You specifically cannot do both the flurry routine and add the natural attack routine on it unlike a typical full attack action then tagging on the natural attacks.
No, feral combat training basically makes the natural weapon it is taken with a 'monk' weapon so you can sub it into the flurry routine.
You specifically cannot do both the flurry routine and add the natural attack routine on it unlike a typical full attack action then tagging on the natural attacks.
It is worth noting he's not flurrying. I believe he dipped MoMS and other wise went to Savage Warrior. He took Feral Combat Training so he could pick up Tiger Style and use it with his cat claws. As far as I can tell, that part of it's raw legal, since the monk part's only in the special header of the feat.
It is worth noting he's not flurrying. I believe he dipped MoMS and other wise went to Savage Warrior. He took Feral Combat Training so he could pick up Tiger Style and use it with his cat claws. As far as I can tell, that part of it's raw legal, since the monk part's only in the special header of the feat.No, feral combat training basically makes the natural weapon it is taken with a 'monk' weapon so you can sub it into the flurry routine.
You specifically cannot do both the flurry routine and add the natural attack routine on it unlike a typical full attack action then tagging on the natural attacks.
You still wouldn't be able to juggle the natural attacks and unarmed strikes in the way you proposed. The rules for natural attacks state they are either used at full BAB during a natural weapon full attack routine or as secondary attacks after the full attack action with manufactured weapons.
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If he is not flurrying than the unarmed strike would be his "manufactured" attack routine and the natural attacks would be secondary. A monk for example with a claw/claw/bite natural attack could make iteratives with his unarmed strike (but not flurry) and then make secondary attacks with claw/claw/bite assuming he did not use his arms for his unarmed attacks.
His unarmed attacks are still not 'natural attacks' and cannot be used as such. They would be unable to do a natural attack routine and tag on IUS after, which is what they were asking in the post.