Now I have to reverse-engineer the troop subtype to see how it was applied to the Russian Soldier stat block...
Troops of high-level simulacrums have all kinds of entertaining potential...
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This adventure is seven different kinds of awesome, and honestly, I need some time to let this all settle in calmly in my head before I write a product review.
One thing I noticed which seemed weird to me thought is how the grenade tossing worked for the gun squads.
I mean, when a troop of what must be over a dozen soldiers are tossing grenades, I expect them to disperse them over a larger area than just a 10ft by 10ft square... just like when they shot it comes out in several directions I expect grenades to have a similar mechanic.
Any way this could be changed without breaking it's power level?
The nasty parts are that the troops have (a) infinite ammo, and (b) offensive actions as swift, move and standard actions! ^______^
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This adventure is seven different kinds of awesome, and honestly, I need some time to let this all settle in calmly in my head before I write a product review.
One thing I noticed which seemed weird to me thought is how the grenade tossing worked for the gun squads.
I mean, when a troop of what must be over a dozen soldiers are tossing grenades, I expect them to disperse them over a larger area than just a 10ft by 10ft square... just like when they shot it comes out in several directions I expect grenades to have a similar mechanic.
Any way this could be changed without breaking it's power level?
I'd like the option to cover a large area, if desired, especially, if they're faced with invisible enemies, or ones hiding in a long trench.
If they all did throw their grenades at a small area, I'd expect it to increase the DC of any resulting Reflex saves. Harder to shield oneself from simultaneous explosions from multiple sources, after all.
This adventure is seven different kinds of awesome, and honestly, I need some time to let this all settle in calmly in my head before I write a product review.
One thing I noticed which seemed weird to me thought is how the grenade tossing worked for the gun squads.
I mean, when a troop of what must be over a dozen soldiers are tossing grenades, I expect them to disperse them over a larger area than just a 10ft by 10ft square... just like when they shot it comes out in several directions I expect grenades to have a similar mechanic.
Any way this could be changed without breaking it's power level?
I'd like the option to cover a large area, if desired, especially, if they're faced with invisible enemies, or ones hiding in a long trench.
If they all did throw their grenades at a small area, I'd expect it to increase the DC of any resulting Reflex saves. Harder to shield oneself from simultaneous explosions from multiple sources, after all.
The increased DC is already reflected by the much-higher-than-15 DC in the attack...
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Is it weird that my favorite part of this module is that it references Tesla and melding magic and tech?Not at all. :)
What the floating squid said.
I mean, when a troop of what must be over a dozen soldiers are tossing grenades, I expect them to disperse them over a larger area than just a 10ft by 10ft square...
I had to go back and check when I saw this, and I'm not sure where you're getting the "10ft by 10ft square" bit. The Grenade Volley special attack deals "12d6 points of piercing and slashing damage in a 30-foot-radius burst." That's a 60-foot diameter blast radius and the heightened Reflex DC is meant to emulate the overlapping explosions of multiple grenades, and is pretty significant.
Does that help?
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I mean, when a troop of what must be over a dozen soldiers are tossing grenades, I expect them to disperse them over a larger area than just a 10ft by 10ft square...I had to go back and check when I saw this, and I'm not sure where you're getting the "10ft by 10ft square" bit. The Grenade Volley special attack deals "12d6 points of piercing and slashing damage in a 30-foot-radius burst." That's a 60-foot diameter blast radius and the heightened Reflex DC is meant to emulate the overlapping explosions of multiple grenades, and is pretty significant.
Does that help?
Well I assumed the 30-foot radius was a burst centered around a much smaller area, where the grenades landed - was that not the intention? Even in case the 30-foot-radius burst IS there to convey a large area where grenades are tossed to, I'd still like to see the unit able to throw grenades in several different directions, to make it feel more like a modern battlefield - explosions and mayhem everywhere as grenades detonate, shots are fired, flamethrowers erupt and machine guns cut down all in their path. Somehow forcing the entire unit to focus a single location with it's grenades does not connect well in my mind with the desired effect described above. More so when a mechanic for attacking multiple directions is already present with the rifle attacks.
Even as things are, though, those troop look to be a mean challenge, which is why I'm hesitant to make them even stronger...
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Good points, all. Keep in mind what we're attempting to emulate though. The intent of the grenade volley isn't to simulate every single soldier in the troop pulling grenades from their belts and all tossing them in unison at the same target. Rather, this is meant to emulate *some* soldiers in a troop performing that action. This is why the grenade volley is a move action, and not a standard action--you've basically got volleys and lines of gunfire rattling out while *boom* there's suddenly an explosion from tossed-out grenades.
Your descriptions of this chaos should go a long way to creating the kind of "what the F*#K???" moment from your PCs I was looking for when I designed this. As a GM, your work has been done for you--you just have a single creature (or two) with pretty easy special abilities to work with, while your PCs are going to think you're rolling dozens of dice behind the screen and probably cheating. =-) So focus on those descriptions of modern warfare!
If you wanted to, you could split the attack into 2 bursts (6d6 damage each) or 3 bursts (4d6 damage each) if the 60-foot burst doesn't let you squeeze all your targets in, and I don't see that it would necessarily hurt anything.
Now I have to reverse-engineer the troop subtype to see how it was applied to the Russian Soldier stat block...
Troops of high-level simulacrums have all kinds of entertaining potential...
Yeah, I'd love to see how low-level orc troops with bows would end up. This whole concept kind of reminds me of the squads from Star Wars Saga edition and I hope Brandon ( or even Paizo ) can publish actual rules soon. :)
Good points, all. Keep in mind what we're attempting to emulate though. The intent of the grenade volley isn't to simulate every single soldier in the troop stopping, pulling grenades from their belts, and all tossing them in unison at the same target. Rather, this is meant to emulate *some* soldiers in a troop performing that action. This is why the grenade volley is a move action, and not a standard action--you've basically got volleys and lines of gunfire rattling out while *boom* there's suddenly an explosion from tossed-out grenades.
Your descriptions of this chaos should go a long way to creating the kind of "what the F*#K???" moment from your PCs I was looking for when I designed this. As a GM, your work has been done for you--you just have a single creature (or two) with pretty easy special abilities to work with, while your PCs are going to think you're rolling dozens of dice behind the screen and probably cheating. =-) So focus on those descriptions of modern warfare!
If you wanted to, you could split the attack into 2 bursts (6d6 damage each) or 3 bursts (4d6 damage each) if the 60-foot burst doesn't let you squeeze all your targets in, and I don't see that it would necessarily hurt anything.
To heck with that - gibletization is in order. Let them eat fragments! ^_____^
Is it weird that my favorite part of this module is that it referrences Tesla and melding magic and tech?
I think it's weird to have a favorite part, but I dig it too.
No offense, I'm weird too.
I say "Ah-koov-SKY-uh." It's not a real Russian word, but that should be pretty close to a proper Russian pronunciation.Thanks, Rob.
I have another question. How much should I tell my players about the new "Troop" type. I need to tell them that although I'm using a bunch of models (hooray for being an Imperial Guard 40k player) it will be treated as a single monster with one pool of HP. But what about it's auto-hit melee attack? Or how a fusillade works?
What about the vulnerability to blasts? Should I be upfront about it or make them do a spellcraft check to know it's done more damage? What about the inability to use spells that define certain types of targets?
"You see a swarm of soldiers."
Soldier ants maybe ... but not soldiers.
The hint on the tactical map is when the footprint (space) reconfigures into different shapes (a line, or a 4x4 square with a pair of "bars" coming off of either side, etc) and so on. Having the troop represented by identical miniatures that maneuver as described is a big fat hint.
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I feel i must buy this just to read....
Question to all you GMs out there - How do you handle the language barrier when your PCs come to Earth's Russia? After all, there shouldn't be any logical way that your PCs should be able to communicate with the Russians (barring a Tongues spell) which can be mighty inconvenient. On Golarion there's always "Common" to fall back on, but "Common" doesn't really exist with the Russian forces, except for a few of the major characters that interact with both worlds.
For some reason, I can't picture Hallit as being related to the Russian language, especially as it's described (at least on the wiki) as a "coarse language with no written form". And that's assuming your PCs are familiar with Irrisen, anyhow.
Lack of communication is one of those things that can make a campaign feel real, but also really make it difficult to adjudicate and make interesting rather than frustrating. I haven't started the campaign with my players yet, but I'm already seeing it as something that could cause issues.
I'm hoping for some viable idea other than "just ignore it if it gets in the way", since I think it's part of what makes using Earth interesting. It's supposed to be completely different from Golarion.
My 2 yen,
Akiosama
There are sidebars in the other modules addressing these failings with linguistic and sense motive checks. You basically get the point and grunt idea of what people are doing.
Hrm. Which modules? Or can you elaborate on how to handle it? I've only read through Rise of the Runelords (Anniversary Edition) and the late modules of Shattered Star and Reign of Winter. I'm new to Pathfinder as a setting.
Thanks for any help you can provide,
Akiosama
Edit: Saw your edited response. My bigger concern is how to allow the PCs to interact with important NPCs in Russia. There are sidebars on how to Interrogate Russians, and most of the NPCs on both sides ("bad" and "good") don't speak any Golarian languages, so, I'm concerned that the inability to communicate could stall the adventure out, as the PCs will be much harder pressed to get detailed information to move on, unlike on Golarion.
Edit #2: There was? I must have missed that. Thanks. :p
He means the other Modules of Reign of Winter. Particularly the fourth, where you're planet hopping on Triaxus.
By this level, and having spent three modules in faraway places, its pretty likely someone has tongues by this point. Also, someone in the party can take a point in linguistics when they level up to learn Russian.
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By this level, and having spent three modules in faraway places, its pretty likely someone has tongues by this point. Also, someone in the party can take a point in linguistics when they level up to learn Russian.
Some of Baba Yaga's servants in the Dancing Hut also know Russian, and can either teach the PCs the language well before coming to Earth or tag along to translate. Another interesting possible solution presents itself way back in Snows of Summer. One consequence of the Black Rider's mantle is that it bestows a +2 inherent bonus to any one ability score per PC. Should one of the PCs apply that to their Intelligence, they would be entitled to another language known (Pathfinder's weird like that; they'd also be entitled to the skill points they would have had if they'd had that INT from level 1). Have that language be Russian.
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Personally I don't like removing choices from players - so I wouldn't suggest forcing any player to take the Mantle bonus to INT or force them to take a language they don't even (yet) know about at that point in the AP.
The concept of the mantle itself is predicated on removing choices from players, cloaked in the excuse of punishing players for choices of which an NPC might not approve. That said, I wasn't suggesting that anybody force their players to take the bonus to INT, I suggested that if they made that choice it would make thematic sense for them to learn Russian via the magic of the mantle...and not to tell them about it until they come across some NPC speaking it (Zorka, for instance).
I like Zimmerwald's idea about learning from or bringing along an NPC, assuming that the PCs realize that the servants know Russian. (While it says that on the NPC template, it's not something that would be obvious unless one of those NPCs were to tag along with the group.)
As for learning Russian through gaining skill points, I'm not sure how to handle it as far as the exposure necessary to learn. I'm not sure I'd let the PCs just 'learn' it because the Mantle gave them extra languages until they'd come to Earth, since even the concept of needing Russian isn't introduced until then, unless I'm forgetting examples of Russian inside the Hut, or something like that.
It's one of those things that I'd limit, much like Triaxian Common, unless the PCs came across a source that could TEACH it, since it's nearly non-existant on Golarion. If it were even regionally available on Golarion, I'd say that a PC could take it, but it's clearly not. Only the Baba Yaga and her progeny would have access to it on Golarion, and they wouldn't teach it, IMO.
It's the accessibility of the language that concerns me. That and my players tend to look at effectiveness of skills and from a statistical side rather than an RP side. I'm going to have to remember to play up Knowledge, Diplomacy and Linguistics for this one, since they often get pushed to the side since they're "RP" rather than "action".
Thanks for the additional ideas.
My 2 yen,
Akiosama
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As for learning Russian through gaining skill points, I'm not sure how to handle it as far as the exposure necessary to learn. I'm not sure I'd let the PCs just 'learn' it because the Mantle gave them extra languages until they'd come to Earth, since even the concept of needing Russian isn't introduced until then, unless I'm forgetting examples of Russian inside the Hut, or something like that.
The Shackled Hut makes it clear that Baba Yaga keeps an extensive library in the Dancing Hut. Doubtless a fair number of these books are written in Russian. Doubtless an even greater number of these books are written in obscure languages the PCs will never, ever encounter on the adventure - perhaps they are spoken in settings that don't even appear in the Paizo canon or anywhere else - but let's keep the discussion focused on Russian. The Dancing Hut is somewhat sentient; it could overpopulate the first library the PCs come across with books written in Russian, in the hopes that they'll get curious. Or you could have Zorka retrieve such a book for the PCs, thinking they'll enjoy it.
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The Shackled Hut makes it clear that Baba Yaga keeps an extensive library in the Dancing Hut. Doubtless a fair number of these books are written in Russian. Doubtless an even greater number of these books are written in obscure languages the PCs will never, ever encounter on the adventure - perhaps they are spoken in settings that don't even appear in the Paizo canon or anywhere else - but let's keep the discussion focused on Russian. The Dancing Hut is somewhat sentient; it could overpopulate the first library the PCs come across with books written in Russian, in the hopes that they'll get curious. Or you could have Zorka retrieve such a book for the PCs, thinking they'll enjoy it.
First, I think Baba's library would be populated with books in languages matching the current destination. This makes thematic sense.
I do like the idea of Zorka teaching a PC Russian; however, teaching it too soon would ruin some of the Mystery of the AP. Having the PC fumbling with 'where' are we now, seems to be part of the Mystique of it.
How many attacks results in that much damage?
Because there is probably some presumption of protection from arrows and/or stoneskin being in use by PCs of this level. If, for the sake of discussion, all those dice are from 13 attacks, then the point is largely moot as the protection spells above will absorb the damage completely or close enough to completely.
Not to mention that - at this level - it is very, very likely that the PCs could bypass many of the super-nasties with a simple teleport to a place that they can see (such as the ruined church) or the like.
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So what you're doing is equating the attacks from four different sources to be the CR of one of them.
Mind you, at this point the PCs could be in control of the Hut. Thus they might move the hut... into the minefield without realizing it. Hey, if you're in a foreign world and in the last couple of encounters you immediately encountered a swarm of giants and a dragonrider... wouldn't you want to use the Hut to approach an encounter? ;)
If the PCs are not savvy enough at this point to use their resources to their fullest advantage... then they deserve to get bloodied.
Mind you, I'm wondering if the Troops should get a penalty to damage flying foes - it's not easy hitting an airplane, even a biplane, let alone four or so small flying objects. ;)
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How many attacks results in that much damage?
Because there is probably some presumption of protection from arrows and/or stoneskin being in use by PCs of this level. If, for the sake of discussion, all those dice are from 13 attacks, then the point is largely moot as the protection spells above will absorb the damage completely or close enough to completely.
Not to mention that - at this level - it is very, very likely that the PCs could bypass many of the super-nasties with a simple teleport to a place that they can see (such as the ruined church) or the like.
Wasn't it you, Turin, that cackled in glee over the PCs "doing the Maxim mambo" after investing too much confidence in their abjurations? :P
Flying objects / creatures that aren't aircraft just don't move all that fast from the standpoint of peppering them with small arms fire.
Altitude/range is the bigger issue in game terms (Perception penalties being ridiculous & range increment penalties).
The Russian Lebed Type XII reconnaissance aircraft clocks in at 84 mph.
By comparison, with a game speed of 30 feet = 3 mph, the Lebed XII has a fly speed of (84/3 = 28 x10 =) 280 feet. The Martinsyde F.4 Buzzard biplane fighter aircraft rates 145 mph = game fly speed of 480 feet.
The fastest game creature that I know of are Gargantuan and Colossal dragons, with a fly speed of 250 feet - a bit slower than the Lebed XII.
Yeah. The skeptic in me is currently grabbing my head and pounding it against the monitor. It's one thing for a troop to auto-hit another troop. It's a large mass. But one or two people who are hundreds of feet away initially? I might require a perception check to get the PCs, especially given the conditions. The Hut appears at night. There's nothing that suggests the hut is lit at all, and the area the soldiers are in is all smokey.
Depending on how long it takes the PCs to leave the Hut... assuming they do (ie, assuming they don't use it to approach the village)... it would be proper to provide penalties to the troops to even see the PCs until they either trigger the minefield or get close enough. And if the PCs bypass the minefield using Fly? You're talking what may be a night sky with small objects that probably aren't using light sources if they're at all smart.
So really, the encounter depends on several variables. I could easily see this as a battle between the Hut with the PCs on the porch and the soldiers and tank. And flying PCs having an advantage over the Troops as well.
Careless characters approaching entrenched positions like these should be chopped into hamburger. They've had ample lessons in being cautious upon disembarking the Hut in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th chapters.
If they haven't learned caution by this point, the only way that they will is by way of taking a trip down Dirt Nap Lane.
The primary trigger of the defenders is some idiot setting off a landmine. The secondary trigger of the defenders is as normal: getting close enough to be picked up by Perception.
If one is so brazen as to waltz into the minefield with the Hut, the Hut will get shut down in short order by the (literal) artillery hammering it just after it steps on one or more landmines.
The plot assumes that the mini-onions are indeed prepared, the BBEG picking up on the "Bad Vibes" or whatever of the Hut's impending arrival. Mini-onions are ordered to prepare defenses, letting the aggressors (PCs) come to them.
Luckily for the PCs, the BBEG and his toadies / hangers-on are ill prepared for the capabilities that are posed by Murder Hobos from Golarion.
Well, at least not for reasonably cautious murder hobos...
Not to mention that A) Rasputin knows you're here and B) they have searchlights of see invisibility, and C) undead snipers.
True on the latter two, but Rasputin does speak with them when they appear at the village.
Not to mention that A) Rasputin knows you're here and B) they have searchlights of see invisibility, and C) undead snipers.Though not in the initial village, IIRC.
Still it seems a little odd to say that if the PCs follow the course of action the module seems to expect, they're unreasonably careless and "should be chopped into hamburger."
You step out of the Hut earlier on in the AP and get pounded into toe jam by giants if one is not careful, as one example. The whole point of the preceding chapters is that nothing is as it seems.
The Hut is a super-tough pill box ... but it won't last long against the firepower in question, a few rounds at best.
The Hut is more likely to step on a landmine than a PC. Earlier chapters emphasize a "get dead kicking in the doors" mantra, i.e. - don't.
I don't see a problem with the scripted setup. If anything, the setup is very kind to the more typical high-level "alpha strike" tactics many of us see, at least as I see it.
The mooks only know someone bad is coming. They don't know who or what is coming...
I don't have the AP yet (I'm waiting until all installments have been published), but I'm getting serious "Outpost" vibes from this part. (The 2007 movie.)
The secondary trigger of the defenders is as normal: getting close enough to be picked up by Perception.No, the script assumes that as long as the PCs are visible, the defenders are aware about them leaving the hut. Its a breach of rules, but the explanation is probably that these enemies have been told someone will emerge from the hut and have optical instruments zeroed on the hut.
The hut would be practically invulnerable, since nearly all attacks are dc23/21 half and the hut has evasion and ref 21. Against some machine gun fire targeting touch AC the DR 15 will help a long time vs 2d8+10.
The Hut is a super-tough pill box ... but it won't last long against the firepower in question, a few rounds at best.
:) I don't have the Hut's stats in my head - so, as with Chapter 4, the Hut is the ticket to trampling the troops beneath their feet with little worry of taking much more than a few scratches.
Rather a shame.
Just as the PCs do not know, they face a force capable of dealing 12d10+12+38d6 dc23/21 half vs every party member and 3 +9 2d8+10 touch line attacks on a full round action.
The mooks only know someone bad is coming. They don't know who or what is coming...
As previously demonstrated, the Hut literally makes them practically invulnerable to what gets thrown at them. The troops' CR and damage output is of little concern.
I checked the huts stats, because without evasion i would have expected the hut to lose. With evasion its wasy for the hut.
And the hut is as far as i read unwilling to help after this first combat, but then the PCs are aware about the DPS troops can unleash, so should be able to handle it.
But that the story assumes they get out of the hut and walk to the village is strange, as it is very deadly.
It will be interesting to see the obituaries for this chapter, methinks. ;)