The "Wall" in Slow Fall


Rules Questions


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Quote:
At 4th level or higher, a monk within arm's reach of a wall can use it to slow his descent. When first gaining this ability, he takes damage as if the fall were 20 feet shorter than it actually is. The monk's ability to slow his fall (that is, to reduce the effective distance of the fall when next to a wall) improves with his monk level until at 20th level he can use a nearby wall to slow his descent and fall any distance without harm.

So, level 4 Monk can treat falls as 20' less when next to a "wall".

What constitutes a "wall"?

If I climb a 30' tree and then fail a climb check by 5, falling 30', can I use the tree to slow my fall?

Cliff face? Ship mast? Storm Giant? Fireman's pole?

Also, can Acrobatics be used to increase the damageless distance by 10'. Effectively "jumping down" from the top of that 30' tree for no damage?

Quote:
Falling: When you deliberately fall any distance, even as a result of a missed jump, a DC 15 Acrobatics skill check allows you to ignore the first 10 feet fallen, although you still end up prone if you take damage from a fall. See Falling Damage for more details.)

Shadow Lodge

Considering balance, this should really be as close to Feather Fall as much as possible.

For me, any of the above would constitute a wall. I'd want to go so far as to say you could use the wind as a wall, assuming there are no actual walls nearby that could be an alternative.


Personally I would say, anything a person could reasonably climb up with non-magical equipment (not necessarily your character, but someone with decent climb modifier).
Perhaps not counting rope (with no additional surfaces available), but I'd let you try to grab a rope to stop your fall entirely, safe fall or no.


Feather Fall is a level 1 spell and a 2000 gp magic item, and works over ANY distance.

The "wall" for Slow Fall could be any phsyical objext or set of objects as far as I'm concerned.

Tree, ship mast, silk freaking curtain (side note: how badass is that? :D ), a column of equally spaced out winged turtles (super mario style!)....whatever. I don't care. It's a "wall," knock yourself out.

Silver Crusade

I would say any non moveable object that could support the weight of the monk. Paper wall =no, rope = yes, stage curtain = yes, house curtain = no.

I work with drapery installers, you can pull a curtain off a wall with almost no effort, but those stage drapes arent coming down for nothin.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Hopea wrote:

Personally I would say, anything a person could reasonably climb up with non-magical equipment (not necessarily your character, but someone with decent climb modifier).

Perhaps not counting rope (with no additional surfaces available), but I'd let you try to grab a rope to stop your fall entirely, safe fall or no.
TimrehIX wrote:

I would say any non moveable object that could support the weight of the monk. Paper wall =no, rope = yes, stage curtain = yes, house curtain = no.

I work with drapery installers, you can pull a curtain off a wall with almost no effort, but those stage drapes arent coming down for nothin.

I think herein lies a great pair of standards to use.

The material must be strong enough to tolerate a light push off (I'd argue a wall of light wood or even semi-thick cardboard would work, but a wall of paper or 'wind' for example wouldn't), though I could see some lenient GM's not caring about the paper and they wouldn't necessarily be wrong.

If it's not a 100% wall (tree trunk, giants back), I think Hopea's definition works pretty wall. A ladder would work. A flowing waterfall wouldn't.

In terms of using a giant (or other creature), I think it should be allowable assuming the creature is relatively motionless (IE not flinging about in combat, not actively hostile to you and knows you're there) and can follow the same rules as a wall (solid enough to take a light push off without moving)
Ever had a cat use you to jump down from something? If you see the cat, when it jumps you move and it usually makes the situation into one very pissed off ball of fur that's mad you messed up it's beautifully timed exit from it's current perch.
If however... and God help you, there WILL be scratches... the cat can catch you unaware, so by the time you notice it and move like the hairless monkey the cat knows you are the cat has generally completed what it needed you for, the cat will have landed quite safely and will give you a look explaining it is great and you are not, but it still appreciates your limited use in making it's life comfortable.
So I'd say creatures would be on a case by case basis, but like the wall would need to be solid enough to support a good kick off from you (so breastplated back of a Huge giant or side of Huge dragon, yes, another human being looking the other way, no), and would need to be voluntarily or inadvertently holding relatively still and solid.

Avatar-1 wrote:

Considering balance, this should really be as close to Feather Fall as much as possible.

For me, any of the above would constitute a wall. I'd want to go so far as to say you could use the wind as a wall, assuming there are no actual walls nearby that could be an alternative.

Now maybe I'm showing the grey in my beard here, but it should not act like Feather Fall for 'balance reasons', 'wind'/air by RAW would not work.

If the designers had wanted that at all, they would have just written it as working like Feather Fall and saved themselves some writing. It is balanced, by not being identical to Feather Fall.
(And to people that say "Feather Fall is only a Level 1 spell", well, so's Charm Person. It doesn't mean classes with big bluff and diplomacy bonuses get that instead.)


I like that (has to be able to support your weight). Maybe you could relax that restriction when he hits epic levels or something (e.g. when you're doing the crouching tiger stuff where you run across the surface of the water and balance on a tree branch and stuff with your dc 60 balance checks, then i would let you slowfall down the waterfall.)

I'd say you could do it on the giant even if he's hostile, but he gets an AoO since you're moving around nearby him. (It's kind of like legolas running around on the troll or sliding down the oliphant's trunk or whatever. I think that's fair for high-level fantasy game stuff.)

But in your case with the cat, you wouldn't get the AoO because you were flat footed.

(I guess you could say if the AoO hits then you should make some kind of check (climb or balance or something) but i think that's getting too detailed.)


jerrys wrote:


...I'd say you could do it on the giant even if he's hostile, but he gets an AoO since you're moving around nearby him. (It's kind of like legolas running around on the troll or sliding down the oliphant's trunk or whatever. I think that's fair for high-level fantasy game stuff.) ...

I think that too would be a fair way to adjudicate that, I like it since I like things that force players into choices with variable risk/reward (risk the AoO? or take the fall damage?)

If a GM wanted to make this a little more realistic but also more complicated to adjudicate, they could consider it partially dependent on the size, intelligence, and build of the creature. I think a giant or troll for example, aware of you, might be able to make it impossible (because they can just 'give' to your attempt to kick off, and are only a size level larger in some cases), but low (animal-near animal-many undead) intelligence creatures aren't that smart, and would just get the AoO, the same with really large blocky creatures like the Tarrasque(sp), an elephant, or a dragon, which couldn't make themselves 'give' to your puny weight if they tried.
I do think no matter what the creature must always be either braced (a str check?), or be at least a size[weight] catagory above you, if a creature is to be used as a wall that won't give.


Why must it support the monk's weight? All the monk has to do is slow down his descent, and nothing in the ability requires that the "wall" survive intact your monk's weight being slowed down by it.


Technically, if you want to prevent an object from accelerating, the wall would have to put a force on the object equal and opposite to his weight - i.e. his weight is exactly right.

If you just want to slow him down (e.g. halve his acceleration) then it'd have to be able to apply a force of half his weight.

Basically though i think it's a good rule of thumb that it should be approximately capable of supporting his weight (or half or a third, or whatever. But not like a sheet of paper where it could support 1/100th of his weight.)


StreamOfTheSky wrote:
Why must it support the monk's weight? All the monk has to do is slow down his descent, and nothing in the ability requires that the "wall" survive intact your monk's weight being slowed down by it.

Because we know it is not Feather Fall.

The monk must be within arms reach of the wall.

If the mere act of touching the wall makes it not a wall (IE air and thin paper), then the wall isn't there to be interacted with and doesn't exist within arms reach... the mere act of trying to interact with it destroyed it.

However if the wall has any substance to it... I for example would allow light wood, thick cardboard like material, thin tree trunks, even a taunt rope... we don't need to assume the monk has to apply any real pressure, but he must at least be able to contact the surface while falling without destroying the surface (or changing it to where it's not a 'wall', for example I wouldn't let a monk Slow Fall off a loose hanging rope).

I'm not sure I could justify saying "It has to support X amount of the monks weight", but I do think it has to be justified as a relatively flat/stable surface [i.e., a wall] and able to be interacted with without the mere interaction with it causing it to not be flat/stable (i.e. a frozen waterfall could work, despite being slippery it would technically meet the RAW description, but a flowing waterfall wouldn't)


I prefer to interpret it as written.

Castle Wall? No problem. Wall of Force? Sure. Wall of Fire? You bet. Tree? No way. The best thing for your monk to do is make a necklace out of a small wall purloined from, say, a doll house or a bird house. Wall within arms' reach at all times.

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