since most of the goal behind becoming a lich is immortality, I guess seeking immortality?
I'm betting there could be a way to become a half-dragon, which should dramatically expand your lifespan...
Taking the Star stone test (and living, of course... Have fun with that.)
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Good characters get to go to heaven.
That should supposedly be the ultimate goodie.
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Dying and going to Heaven?
Immortality without becoming undead is available to anyone with money though:
- Get a ring that'll cast Magic Jar once a day. Better yet: get two.
- Have a Simulacrum made of whatever body you'd like.
- Have the Binding (Minimus Containment) spell cast on you.
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Good spellcasters go to Heaven and live happily ever after.
Evil spellcasters become Liches to avoid going to Hell and burning for all eternity.
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The satisfaction of a job well-done and the peace of mind of knowing you did the right thing...
...ppffffttt BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA! BWAHHAHA! HAHA! Heh! Heh...whew...
Lich4lyfe
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I always figured the fact that there wasn't a proper good equivalent of a Lich was kind of the entire point of a Lich's existence. If there was a reliable way to gain enormous arcane power and immortality without sacrificing your soul and empathy to do it, there'd be a lot fewer liches.
I'm of the mindset that evil should be the easy, "quick way to make a buck" path, because otherwise the conscious decision to be good kind of loses its meaning. Evil is supposed to be tempting, because if there were no benefits to being evil that can't be basically matched by being Good, why would anyone be? It's the same reason the only way a Paladin can more or less retain their powers and not be Lawful Good is to fall so completely that they become the antithesis of what they originally stood for (An Antipaladin): Good should not be easy.
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Perhaps good is for cowards and the unmotivated?
Good is for anti-capitalists.
Evil is for those who are self starters and driven to always improve themselves.
Dying and going to Heaven?
Immortality without becoming undead is available to anyone with money though:
Your real body will be inside a bottle and does not require any food or air, nor does it age. You can Magic Jar into your Simulacrum for hours on end, since the spell doesn't require any Line of Effect and the creature cannot disobey an order never to resist.
- Get a ring that'll cast Magic Jar once a day. Better yet: get two.
- Have a Simulacrum made of whatever body you'd like.
- Have the Binding (Minimus Containment) spell cast on you.
Neat. I've never heard of that before, but it's kind of like a non-evil way to create a phylactery(only instead of storing your soul, it stores your body).
There is the drawback of only having half your hitpoints, though.
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Pathfinder #66.
Dying and going to Heaven?
Immortality without becoming undead is available to anyone with money though:
Your real body will be inside a bottle and does not require any food or air, nor does it age. You can Magic Jar into your Simulacrum for hours on end, since the spell doesn't require any Line of Effect and the creature cannot disobey an order never to resist.
- Get a ring that'll cast Magic Jar once a day. Better yet: get two.
- Have a Simulacrum made of whatever body you'd like.
- Have the Binding (Minimus Containment) spell cast on you.
Neat. I've never heard of that before, but it's kind of like a non-evil way to create a phylactery(only instead of storing your soul, it stores your body).
There is the drawback of only having half your hitpoints, though.
i suppose, but then you've got an endless supply of backups if you've built right.
Well, any wizard who reaches 20th level can take the immortality discovery .
But otherwise, yeah, I'd agree with the "good is hard (but you go to heaven)" line of thought above.
Doug M.
iirc doesnt that paladin AT that you slowly turn into a celestial give immortality at 20th?
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16
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Gandalf was sent back to finish someone else's bidness. Pathfinder petitioners might start the long process of service as a lantern archon --> deva --> solar (however it works for them). Simply retiring and letting the fight slip to the next generation of god guys might be sufficient. Heaven is under-rated.
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Well, that's actually rather simple, but it's not obvious.
Anybody with an evil reputation will find that nobody will do business with you. Think about it, would YOU deal with someone who has a rep for killing babies, swiping anything not nailed down, etc?
In fact, evil characters rapidly find that they are hunted down by entire kingdoms. Heroes are sent after you, just as if you were an evil dragon or horde of orcs.
Meanwhile, good characters find they are the medieval equivalent of rock stars. They get people welcoming them wherever they go, they get bargains, they get whatever the GM can come up with. Plus, they get to go to Heaven when they die, and if their naturally allotted timespan isn't up, they will find lots of people willing to cough up the moolah to have them resurrected.
All of that is without game mechanics special for good aligned spellcasters. But if you really want that sort of thing, there's a 3.5 book called Book of Exalted Deeds.
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Perhaps good is for cowards and the unmotivated?
Good is for anti-capitalists.
Evil is for those who are self starters and driven to always improve themselves.
You describe the lich's point-of-view remarkably well.
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Well, any wizard who reaches 20th level can take the immortality discovery .
But otherwise, yeah, I'd agree with the "good is hard (but you go to heaven)" line of thought above.
Doug M.
But that's at level 20. Lichdom can be done much earlier. As usual, evil has the 'shortcut'.
Dying and going to Heaven?
Immortality without becoming undead is available to anyone with money though:
Your real body will be inside a bottle and does not require any food or air, nor does it age. You can Magic Jar into your Simulacrum for hours on end, since the spell doesn't require any Line of Effect and the creature cannot disobey an order never to resist.
- Get a ring that'll cast Magic Jar once a day. Better yet: get two.
- Have a Simulacrum made of whatever body you'd like.
- Have the Binding (Minimus Containment) spell cast on you.
Immortality is no longer the point, heck thats an arcane discovery now. I don't want to go down the old school path of "heh im epic now, lets go topple a lesser god and take his domains". Even if that was an option (much easier then than now) its lame and frankly not a good act. I kind of thought about settling into an elminster type role but my character will still be early 20s by the time he's epic (started at age 14).
Surely there has to be a better endgame role to settle to. My character's party is most of the way into saving his prime from slow destruction albiet it very few know. He's also a chosen of his god (of magic) so he's not just an arcanist but truly hungry for more magical knowledge and power. A lich would be the natural fit for that "I want to live forever and be superpowerful" theme, however they're evil (he's CG).
Even if he did become incredibly powerful it would be purely to be a defender against future issues and to open an academy for others to enjoy. However I like the idea of coming back as an angelic outsider, even if in some other form.
im reminded of jace belerin (spelling?) form MTG's lore for some reason.
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If you're looking at things from a flavor, not mechanical, perspective, there's still plenty of options available to a good spellcaster. A handful that fit a bunch of settings I'm thinking of just off-hand include:
-Swearing yourself to a kingdom and serving as their champion and protecting against external threats/extraplanar shenanigans.
-Press onward into The Darkness; no more waiting for the forces of evil to attack, it's time to bring the fight to them.
-Open a school of magic to teach new, fledgling wizards how to wizard. Or just take on an apprentice; essentially, assure your art does not die with you.
-Similar to the above, go all Final Fantasy 8 and start training a force for the express purpose of killing you should you ever decide to not be such a cool guy anymore.
-Found a magical paradise, possibly on the grounds of some evil place your conquered, possibly in some pocket dimension you created just because.
-Or, if evil spellcasters' evil-specific endgame is to become liches, a good spellcaster could devote themselves to making them think twice before making that decision and regret it if they do.
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Sun orchid elixir, anybody?
Ruyan.
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Magaambyan Arcanist, Wizard Immortality, Arch-Lichery, etc.
There are also three seperate ways to become immortal as an Oracle, one way as a wizard, and one way as a Monk.
-Press onward into The Darkness; no more waiting for the forces of evil to attack, it's time to bring the fight to them.
I can't see Lawful Good types doing this, it falls under the whole pre-emptive strike rule. You can't punish someone for evil they haven't committed, blah, blah....
Neutral Good or Chaotic Good, heck yeah
or those LG knight-templar style characters (usually divine casters) who exterminate demons/devils on sight because they are quite literally CE/LE given physical form, and are wearing away at both the souls of the good and pure as well as the physical landscape (such as the worldwound).
I know and have played quite a few paladins who would take immortality in a heartbeat to serve as a permanent bastion of good against the forces of evil.
Sun orchid elixir, anybody?
Ruyan.
Yeah that one offers quite a lot of roleplaying possibilities. Only it´s so rare and expensive^^ Not sure PC´s can afford this.
Just be a wizard and take the immortality discovery from the Ultimate Magic book. As sorcerer you can't do that though.
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If you Good and die you get to hang around hot babes like the Azata and the Archon trumpet( Or the Astral deva for the ladies) in the afterlife. If you are evil you end up as a Lemure in the afterlife. Think evils have much higher motivation to avoid their reward then Good guys.
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Good Caster gets to party in Elysium, or possibly catch a ride on Aspu's dragonbud party boat wandering the planes until the end of days. What's wrong with that?
If you can get your hands on enough djezet, there's one very fun and potent transhuman possibility in Pathfinder #66.
Got a page number? I missed it.
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If you Good and die you get to hang around hot babes like the Azata and the Archon trumpet( Or the Astral deva for the ladies) in the afterlife. If you are evil you end up as a Lemure in the afterlife. Think evils have much higher motivation to avoid their reward then Good guys.
Hey. Don't assume we're all straight. I think brijidines are hot!
Dying and going to Heaven?
Immortality without becoming undead is available to anyone with money though:
Your real body will be inside a bottle and does not require any food or air, nor does it age. You can Magic Jar into your Simulacrum for hours on end, since the spell doesn't require any Line of Effect and the creature cannot disobey an order never to resist.
- Get a ring that'll cast Magic Jar once a day. Better yet: get two.
- Have a Simulacrum made of whatever body you'd like.
- Have the Binding (Minimus Containment) spell cast on you.
Hey that's one of mine!
You could at least have given credit where credit's due. ;P
EDIT: (Or did you reinvent it in a "great minds think alike" moment?)
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Immortality on the cheap: Reincarnation. When you die, get reincarnated into a new(random) Young Adult Body. That's pretty alignment Neutral imo.
And on that point, I would mention Reincarnation Druids would live forever too. At the low, low price of playing a lvl 5 Druid.
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Important point: lichdom is the only one of the methods for gaining immortality that can be done in a hurry. If you're a level 14 wizard and suddenly decide you don't want to die, how do you go hunt down 6 levels in a hurry to stave off death? Heck, you're likely to die while trying to gain that experience.
If you discover that you're dying, or suddenly decide you no longer like feeling that your life is one lucky swing of a sword by some brainless barbarian away, how are you to free yourself from such concerns quickly and (kinda) safely?
Lichdom!
Also, while I'm sure there are many evil wizards that seek out lichdom, because they're evil, I like to think that there are plenty of people who AREN'T evil, but who get twisted while by the process of attempting to stave off death.
Perhaps good is for cowards and the unmotivated?
Good is for anti-capitalists.
Evil is for those who are self starters and driven to always improve themselves.
Yes, because "Good is dumb."
A demiplane with no time flow.
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Important point: lichdom is the only one of the methods for gaining immortality that can be done in a hurry. If you're a level 14 wizard and suddenly decide you don't want to die, how do you go hunt down 6 levels in a hurry to stave off death? Heck, you're likely to die while trying to gain that experience.
If you discover that you're dying, or suddenly decide you no longer like feeling that your life is one lucky swing of a sword by some brainless barbarian away, how are you to free yourself from such concerns quickly and (kinda) safely?
Lichdom!
Also, while I'm sure there are many evil wizards that seek out lichdom, because they're evil, I like to think that there are plenty of people who AREN'T evil, but who get twisted while by the process of attempting to stave off death.
Hey, my Barbarian has a very good brain. In fact its in mint condition , never been used.
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What about storing your body in a secure pocket plane under a gentle repose spell and traveling the planes via astral projection?
Alternately, consider a mini campaign as a petitioner who was favored enough to have been granted their memories of their past life. This may allow you to undergo trials which could determine what kind of outsider you may become. Your DM may even allow you to retain your class levels and personality the entire way through, in exchange for racial HD.
Then, not only would you become immortal, but you would get some pretty kick-butt abilities to boot, and if you wanted to continue helping out in the material plane all you would need to do is place yourself on the "I welcome being summoned" registry. & remember, even if you "die" as a summoned creature, you'll still be safe in the comfort of your own plane.