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The Diviner "Forewarned" ability says "You can always act in the surprise round even if you fail to make a Perception roll to notice a foe."
1) Do you go last in the surprise round if you fail to notice a foe, or do you roll initiative?
2) If you roll initiative, what happens if you beat your opponent and act before they do, but you aren't aware of the opponent? Does the GM say something like "you sense there's about to be trouble, but you don't see it yet - take a standard action"?
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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The Diviner "Forewarned" ability says "You can always act in the surprise round even if you fail to make a Perception roll to notice a foe."
1) Do you go last in the surprise round if you fail to notice a foe, or do you roll initiative?
Per the Core Rulebook, everyone rolls initiative before the surprise round even happens. Anyone acting in the surprise round will do so on their initiative count.
2) If you roll initiative, what happens if you beat your opponent and act before they do, but you aren't aware of the opponent? Does the GM say something like "you sense there's about to be trouble, but you don't see it yet - take a standard action"?
Pretty much, yeah. If you're a diviner, it pays to have a standard operating procedure for moments like that (especially if you ramp up your initiative score). For instance, I have an Eldritch Knight who's a diviner, and has +13 or so initiative. So I keep a wand of shield in a spring-loaded wrist sheath. If I feel myself roll initiative but don't know what the threat is, I pop it out as a swift action and activate it as a standard action.
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Per the Core Rulebook, everyone rolls initiative before the surprise round even happens. Anyone acting in the surprise round will do so on their initiative count.
Was not aware of that, my group usually has the surprised parties roll after the surprise round.
Pretty much, yeah. If you're a diviner, it pays to have a standard operating procedure for moments like that (especially if you ramp up your initiative score). For instance, I have an Eldritch Knight who's a diviner, and has +13 or so initiative. So I keep a wand of shield in a spring-loaded wrist sheath. If I feel myself roll initiative but don't know what the threat is, I pop it out as a swift action and activate it as a standard action.
Sounds like a good plan.
Thanks for the help.
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Per the Core Rulebook, everyone rolls initiative before the surprise round even happens. Anyone acting in the surprise round will do so on their initiative count.Was not aware of that, my group usually has the surprised parties roll after the surprise round.
Lots of people do that, probably because if you have everyone roll initiative, it's easy to forget that only certain PCs are acting and accidentally turn it into a regular round. :/
Lots of people do that, probably because if you have everyone roll initiative, it's easy to forget that only certain PCs are acting and accidentally turn it into a regular round. :/Per the Core Rulebook, everyone rolls initiative before the surprise round even happens. Anyone acting in the surprise round will do so on their initiative count.Was not aware of that, my group usually has the surprised parties roll after the surprise round.
Also, in the normal case of group a surprising roup B, it is easier to just have the group with the surprise round act how they want to avoid having to do all the math for held actions and such.
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Sorry for the thread necromancy, but this is becoming relevant once more due to Ultimate Intrigue's states of awareness.
Basically, I have run into so some people in the past saying that if there's no surprise round, this ability is useless.
I would tend to say this goes against the RAI for this ability, as a diviner gets a slight edge on what's coming. He's a diviner. It's not like this ability is like the foresight spell, where you *know* what's about to happen. I think it's a neat ability and the flavor is perfect if essentially, you get a surprise round to do something before you're aware of the combatants.
(i.e. I think Weirdo and Jiggy have the right of it)
If there isn't a surprise round, this ability does nothing - it does not create a surprise round.
Is it a surprise round? yes/no
if yes you get to act even if you would otherwise be unable to.
if no ... well, it seems to be missing a load of text, because there is nothing here - it does nothing.
what do you expect it to do? because the ability is pretty specific. I really can't see any room for ambiguity.