I found a way to defeat the Tarrasque.


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

151 to 200 of 220 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | next > last >>

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Beat on it until it can't move, then feed it to me.


Krome wrote:
should be obvious... you kill a Tarrasque with kindness. Shower it with love until its rage subsides and it realizes how naughty it has been and then it can metamorphosis into a new, gentle creature to protect the world.

Damn hippy dwarves.


Rictras Shard wrote:

For the sake of argument, though, let's assume everything worked out for you. That means you've traveled...

The thing has 4 legs. Not 2 legs and 2 arms. Therefore ALL its digits are fingers AND toes. Logic is your friend.

Humans are highly fallible, and this is a fictional concept. Therefore, it is very likely they will act as a human would think. Get used to the concept that reality is not perfect, and neither are you.

Actually, I have had extensive experience with housecats, and even saw a few psych studies on them. They really ARE slow witted and easily to distract. Cute fuzzballs though.

Fine, how about I invisibly fly up and wiz in the thing's face? It's just a bloody distraction man, any way it can be accomplished is FINE. Heck, we probably don't even need one, since the monster is busy wiping out the local population centers, some twit invisibly sneaking up and slipping a ring on its toe shouldn't be too much of a bother, OKAY?

Okay, why does it wake up and periodically eat massive numbers of people then? Just for the taste? Look out everybody, the Tarrasque gourmet is coming!!!

Simply use summoned monsters to lead it elsewhere. Or heck, DON'T lead it anywhere, and just wait for the ring to kick in. It will wipe out that civilization, but it will STILL die. It can't remove the ring, anyway. Never heard of an animal or really stupid creature that was willing to chomp off its own arm just for kicks, unless it was trapped in ONE spot. All the creature has to do is keep eating, and that is what it was already doing. Lucky for us, it's duller than a fence post.

Seriously man, it's not that hard to pull off, and it's a brilliant idea. Simply finding a ring like that would be hard enough as it is, and that would mean a quest.

The Exchange

It's a great plan. Filled with flaws and fallacies, but hey.

Again, don't put real life restrictions on the fantasy setting. Real animals don't regenerate 1/5 of their health every 6 seconds. Of course it would bite off the distracting object. Because the toe it was on would just grow back again. And it knows it.

Rings have 10 hp and a hardness 5, the thing could just break as the Tarrasque was fighting.

It wakes up periodically to destroy everything in sight, since its a spawn of Rovagug, the god of destruction. The description in the book doesn't even say it eats, only that it destroys. I believe the eating thing was added in by folks in this thread and we've just run with it, which is fair enough, easy mistake to make. It may not even need to eat. After all, this is a creature that just pops back into life three rounds after it dies. There's plenty of things in the bestiaries that don't need to subsist on anything as far as I can tell, particularly the angelic and demon/ devil things. As in the god creations.

Any way, I'm going to leave you to convince your DM, rather than us. It doesn't really matter what we think, only what your DM thinks.

For interests sake, can you tell me the source of the ring? I can't find it in the books I've got, but then I don't have all the books. It sounds like something fun to play with in a campaign I've got coming up.

Cheers


Wrath, you're being slightly more reasonable than Piccolo, however your posit that it would bite off a foreign object "just because" is flawed: the Tarrasque isn't an animal, it's sentient. I've collared creatures before (and seen others collared) and they don't always notice or care about things they get 'tagged' with (usually it's only when it specifically annoys them for some reason).

Further, biting it off wouldn't do any good, once it's activated... it would still show up and return regardless and the effects would continue even if the ring was temporarily unavailable.

And really, the only thing you need to get the Tarrasque to put on the ring is a decent bluff and diplomacy check in Aklo (a decent fly speed and shouting should be enough for this), as it doesn't exactly have a high sense motive check, and it seems like a legitimate Ring of Sustenance.

What I'm saying is you're fighting the wrong battle.

Getting it on would be a trick, I admit. I agree it's not easily able to be distracted as a) it says so in its description, and b) it has a low intelligence, not a low wisdom.

The ultimate flaw in that plan isn't that it's difficult to get the ring on. That's relatively easy. It can be talked to, it can be reasoned with, and in worst-case-scenarios it can be put on by having a large number of summoned monsters bum rush the creature (all working at getting that ring on that thing).

The main flaw is simply this: Big T wouldn't really suffer from having that ring on. Though called a ring of "cannibalism", it's really a ring of "force you to eat sentient creatures" which Big T likely does anyway.

(Related Note: that Piccolo is presuming the Ring of Cannibalism is the big kicker here, while I'm pretty sure theDavid was presuming a regular old cursed item with the opposite of inteded effect instead.)

But really, a solid question that comes up here is "Why is the Tarrasque neutral?" It slaughters indiscriminately, rampages across the country side, destroys all who stand in its way, and seeks to harm those who seek to prevent it from doing so. Nothing about those actions are "neutral" and, being sentient, it's subject to having other alignments and making moral decisions. It's noted as having "rages", but their purpose and what they are, even, is somewhat vague.

Of course, then there's the mythical tarasque of St. Martha fame (which was a kind of short turtle-like six-legged dragon).

Or the dinosaur named after it.

I could see those being neutral.

Then again, as wikipedia tells us,

wikipedia article wrote:
In the Spelljammer series, the accessory Practical Planetology suggests the tarrasques originate from the planet Falx. Several hundred tarrasques live there in a docile state, where they are silicavores (rock eaters); upon removal from their homeworld their temperament changes to the violent, rapacious one better known elsewhere in the Dungeons & Dragons universe.

(Then again, then again, that article contradicts itself by noting that "Various explanations of the tarrasque's origins exist: some claim it is a curse from the gods, while others say it was created by evil wizards. Neither TSR nor Wizards of the Coast has ever provided a definitive answer." when it also states that "In the 4th edition version of the game, the tarrasque is listed as an "abomination" and classed as a "Gargantuan elemental magical beast"—a living engine of death and destruction created by a primordial race for use as a weapon against the gods.", so take what it says with a grain of salt.)

Here's the cannibal ring. It comes from the Advanced Player's Guide, if I recall correctly. It's pretty awful in every way.

Feeding Big T (in bite-sized chunks) to a Bag of Devouring is a surprisingly viable solution, actually, if Big T can be cut into enough pieces rapidly enough (which you should be able to do with a decent fabricate effect, likely brought on by a wish, due to the normal time requirements being prohibitive) and/or you had enough bags.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Tacticslion wrote:
eeding Big T (in bite-sized chunks) to a Bag of Devouring is a surprisingly viable solution, actually, if Big T can be cut into enough pieces rapidly enough

Nah, forget pieces. Big T is one creature. When he's helpless, stick his toe in me, and there's a 60% chance I suck him down, consume him in one round, and he's gone. If not, stick a different toe in me next round.

Yeah, it might seem silly that I can consume one creature without any statement about size, when I've got a limited capacity for objects. But, really, I'm that good with living prey. And I like my interpretations like I like my food - RAW!


That's... actually true. And if they keep beating him hard enough long enough, it should be enough. Huh. Interesting, and kind of surprising!


Piccolo wrote:


The thing has 4 legs. Not 2 legs and 2 arms. Therefore ALL its digits are fingers AND toes. Logic is your friend.

Well, let's look at its picture, shall we? There it is, on page 262 of the Bestiary, standing on its hind legs, as it is in every picture I've ever seen of it. The top limbs look fairly much like standard humanoid arms, complete with functional fingers.

Looking at the lower limbs, we can see forward-bending knees. On a four-legged creature, these would be bent backwards and wouldn't actually be knees. The knees would usually be around the waist.

Therefore, by all indications, this is a bipedal creature.

Piccolo wrote:
Humans are highly fallible, and this is a fictional concept. Therefore, it is very likely they will act as a human would think. Get used to the concept that reality is not perfect, and neither are you.

Actually, it would act as a human would think it would act, which is not like a human.

Piccolo wrote:
Actually, I have had extensive experience with housecats, and even saw a few psych studies on them. They really ARE slow witted and easily to distract. Cute fuzzballs though.

This is incorrect, but since it isn't important to the topic, I won't argue it any further.

Piccolo wrote:
Fine, how about I invisibly fly up and wiz in the thing's face? It's just a bloody distraction man, any way it can be accomplished is FINE. Heck, we probably don't even need one, since the monster is busy wiping out the local population centers, some twit invisibly sneaking up and slipping a ring on its toe shouldn't be too much of a bother, OKAY?

Try this. Have someone you know stand in front of you and continually wave around their hands. Then try to put a ring on one of their fingers. The most likely outcome is that frustration will make you quit after a few minutes. Then think about how this is just a person, and not a gigantic creature of destruction that is trying to kill you.

Also, you may be invisible, but the tarrasque has scent. Best case scenario for you, it will be aware of you when you are within fifteen feet. At that point, it will start looking for you.

A moving invisible creature gets +20 to stealth checks. The tarrasque has +43 to perception checks.

Piccolo wrote:
Okay, why does it wake up and periodically eat massive numbers of people then? Just for the taste? Look out everybody, the Tarrasque gourmet is coming!!!

Here is the complete two paragraph description from the Bestiary:

Quote:

The legendary tarrasque is among the world's most destructive monsters. Thankfully, it spends most of its time in a deep torpor in an unknown cavern in a remote corner of the world - yet when it wakens, kingdoms die.

Although far from intelligent, the creature is smart enough to understand a few words in Aklo (though it cannot speak). Likewise, it isn't mindless in its rampages, but instead focuses on targets that threaten it, and is difficult to distract with trickery.

Where in there does it state the tarrasque eats massive amounts of people on a regular basis?

Piccolo wrote:
Simply use summoned monsters to lead it elsewhere. Or heck, DON'T lead it anywhere, and just wait for the ring to kick in. It will wipe out that civilization, but it will STILL die. It can't remove the ring, anyway. Never heard of an animal or really stupid creature that was willing to chomp off its own arm just for kicks, unless it was trapped in ONE spot. All the creature has to do is keep eating, and that is what it was already doing. Lucky for us, it's duller than a fence post.

Based on the above description, it focuses its attention on targets that threaten it. Summoned monsters that are running away are not threatening it.

In order to take enough non-lethal damage just to fall unconscious, it will have to fail around 150 checks. This will likely take more than a week. If it feasts at any point in the process, it will recover all non-lethal damage taken to that point, and will again have to fail in excess of one-hundred checks to pass out. What do you think are the odds of it not finding a meal in the space of a week.

And for a creature that can regenerate, choosing to devour part of itself that will grow back is likely a much better choice than dying horribly of starvation.

Piccolo wrote:

Seriously man, it's not that hard to pull off, and it's a brilliant idea. Simply finding a ring like that would be hard enough as it is, and that would mean a quest.

As we have seen in these arguments, until you make revisions for your plan, the chances of pulling it off are not good.


Tacticslion wrote:

Wrath, you're being slightly more reasonable than Piccolo, however your posit that it would bite off a foreign object "just because" is flawed: the Tarrasque isn't an animal, it's sentient. I've collared creatures before (and seen others collared) and they don't always notice or care about things they get 'tagged' with (usually it's only when it specifically annoys them for some reason).

Further, biting it off wouldn't do any good, once it's activated... it would still show up and return regardless and the effects would continue even if the ring was temporarily unavailable.

And really, the only thing you need to get the Tarrasque to put on the ring is a decent bluff and diplomacy check in Aklo (a decent fly speed and shouting should be enough for this), as it doesn't exactly have a high sense motive check, and it seems like a legitimate Ring of Sustenance.

What I'm saying is you're fighting the wrong battle.

Getting it on would be a trick, I admit. I agree it's not easily able to be distracted as a) it says so in its description, and b) it has a low intelligence, not a low wisdom.

The ultimate flaw in that plan isn't that it's difficult to get the ring on. That's relatively easy. It can be talked to, it can be reasoned with, and in worst-case-scenarios it can be put on by having a large number of summoned monsters bum rush the creature (all working at getting that ring on that thing).

The main flaw is simply this: Big T wouldn't really suffer from having that ring on. Though called a ring of "cannibalism", it's really a ring of "force you to eat sentient creatures" which Big T likely does anyway.

(Related Note: that Piccolo is presuming the Ring of Cannibalism is the big kicker here, while I'm pretty sure theDavid was presuming a regular old cursed item with the opposite of inteded effect instead.)

But really, a...

Actually, since the tarrasque has regeneration and probably realizes it, I think it would bite off it's own finger. Much like how a lizard will disconnect it's tail when captured.

Of course, I doubt the tarrasque would be smart enough to piece two and two together about the ring and it's insatiable hunger. Who knows. I've always considered the tarrasque to have nigh-Hulk intelligence.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber
Tacticslion wrote:
That's... actually true. And if they keep beating him hard enough long enough, it should be enough. Huh. Interesting, and kind of surprising!
Quote:
The bag can hold up to 30 cubic feet of matter.

Is that enough space for the tarrasque to fit inside?

The Exchange

What happens once it's inside the bag of devouring? Does it stop the Tarrasque from regenerating and just ripping its way out or are we talking extra dimensional space here? I'm at work, so looking it up may be difficult.

Also, thanks for that Tacticslion, I guess I also couldn't see the forest for the trees a little there.

Cheers


Starvation damage gets around any form of regeneration. Period. And it kills. Look it up.

Shadow Lodge

No.


Piccolo wrote:
Starvation damage gets around any form of regeneration. Period. And it kills. Look it up.

From the description of the cannibal ring:

Quote:
Once the wearer feasts in such a manner, he recovers all nonlethal damage sustained from hunger and thirst

Starving creatures don't begin taking lethal damage until they have taken non-lethal damage equal to their total hit points.

Liberty's Edge

Piccolo wrote:
Starvation damage gets around any form of regeneration. Period. And it kills. Look it up.

No, it does not. Regeneration cannot heal damage from starvation, but damage cannot kill a creature with regeneration. The worst starvation can do is put it into a permanent unconscious state to awaken when someone force-feeds it (or die, if regen is suppressed).

Note that the below text never says that starvation bypasses the "cannot be killed" clause:

Regeneration Rules wrote:

Regeneration (Ex)

A creature with this ability is difficult to kill. Creatures with regeneration heal damage at a fixed rate, as with fast healing, but they cannot die as long as their regeneration is still functioning (although creatures with regeneration still fall unconscious when their hit points are below 0). Certain attack forms, typically fire and acid, cause a creature’s regeneration to stop functioning on the round following the attack. During this round, the creature does not heal any damage and can die normally.

The creature’s descriptive text describes the types of damage that cause the regeneration to cease functioning. Attack forms that don’t deal hit point damage are not healed by regeneration. Regeneration also does not restore hit points lost from starvation, thirst, or suffocation. Regenerating creatures can regrow lost portions of their bodies and can reattach severed limbs or body parts if they are brought together within 1 hour of severing. Severed parts that are not reattached wither and die normally.

A creature must have a Constitution score to have the regeneration ability.

Format: regeneration 5 (fire, acid); Location: hp.


If you think the limit of how much I can hold in my mouth is the same thing as the limit of how big a creature I can consume in a round, no, I can only manage to consume Large creatures (humans are about 3 cubic feet, so doubled in all dimensions is about 24 cubic feet; colossal beasts are way too big).

However, I want to be clear that there is, in fact, nothing actually on the paper there that says when I consume a creature, I'm limited by the amount of matter I could hold in my bag-of-holding-like mouth. So I get to eat the tarrasque RAW!

Though, toss in some onions, too. Almost everything I eat is a bit gamey.

(Remember, when I'm feeding, I can't pun. Line up those herd animals . . .)

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

Looking at the rules for creature sizes, Colossal creatures have a space of 30ft, which is small enough to fit, even without the squeezing rules.

However, nothing on the paper actually says a bag of devouring can permanently kill the tarrasque.

Quote:
Creatures drawn within are consumed in 1 round. The bag destroys the victim's body and prevents any form of raising or resurrection that requires part of the corpse. There is a 50% chance that a wish, miracle, or true resurrection spell can restore a devoured victim to life. Check once for each destroyed creature. If the check fails, the creature cannot be brought back to life by mortal magic.

The tarrasque's regeneration does not require part of the corpse, and is not mortal magic. Therefore the tarrasque will rise from death 3 rounds after being consumed. RAW.


TriOmegaZero wrote:
Tacticslion wrote:
That's... actually true. And if they keep beating him hard enough long enough, it should be enough. Huh. Interesting, and kind of surprising!
Quote:
The bag can hold up to 30 cubic feet of matter.
Is that enough space for the tarrasque to fit inside?

I think the relevant part of the text is the other part, re-reading for context and quoting the entire relevent suite of lines (found here for the curious):

Bag of Devouring wrote:

The bag has a +8 bonus on combat maneuver checks made to grapple. If it pins a creature, it pulls them inside as a free action. The bag has CMD of 18 for those attempting to break free.

The bag can hold up to 30 cubic feet of matter. It acts as a bag of holding type I, but each hour it has a 5% cumulative chance of swallowing the contents and then spitting the stuff out in some nonspace or on some other plane. Creatures drawn within are consumed in 1 round.

So, upon re-reading, it might not be as viable as I thought, and my original idea was closer to being correct (grab a few bags of devouring, fabricate it into pieces, and enjoy the results), but it's up for interpretation.

Given that the bag has a 30 cubic feet of matter, and a colossal sized creature (such as Big T) is 64 feet or more in length, it entirely depends on how much it can be compressed into. It looks to be about as tall as it is long, and even if it can be compressed into a cube, it likely extends beyond the bag's 30ft cube rule (though creatures smaller than Big T are likely okay for munching, because despite how much "area" they take up in a battle, they actually compress pretty well).

However, if that works, there's the Combat Manuever thing. As it turns out, it's not that big a deal. Given that Big T has a CMD of 66, it seems impossible, but since it's helpless the combat manuever check automatically succeeds. Still... that's two full rounds (one for the pin, and one for the devouring). The third round is spent actually consuming the creature, so that would function. It's a tight schedule, but it could work.

The real question is how you interpret the lines of text. The 30 cubic feet seems to apply to anything, however it states definitively that "if it pins a creature, it pulls them in" and "creatures drawn within are consumed in 1 round".

Pulling the Animate Dream trick (or the Allip trick, though that one's more difficult) could net you a pretty useful always-unconscious Big T to experiment with. Heck, depending on your interpretation, once it's unconscious, cut Big T into two pieces while two creatures have Bags of Devouring ready to place the flesh in as soon as you do. There's a 60% chance that Big T is gone, as, if he's not dead (because you read its regeneration that way, which I don't), and we've no particular RAW way of determining which "half" of him is "him", both count as a "creature" so, you know, he'll likely be devoured forever.


TriOmegaZero wrote:

Looking at the rules for creature sizes, Colossal creatures have a space of 30ft, which is small enough to fit, even without the squeezing rules.

However, nothing on the paper actually says a bag of devouring can permanently kill the tarrasque.

Quote:
Creatures drawn within are consumed in 1 round. The bag destroys the victim's body and prevents any form of raising or resurrection that requires part of the corpse. There is a 50% chance that a wish, miracle, or true resurrection spell can restore a devoured victim to life. Check once for each destroyed creature. If the check fails, the creature cannot be brought back to life by mortal magic.
The tarrasque's regeneration does not require part of the corpse, and is not mortal magic. Therefore the tarrasque will rise from death 3 rounds after being consumed. RAW.

But the tarrasque will do so within the bag of devouring. Which will incidentally keep its mouth perpetually full, saving us from its puns. Let us feed it the tarrasque forthwith!


TriOmegaZero wrote:

Looking at the rules for creature sizes, Colossal creatures have a space of 30ft, which is small enough to fit, even without the squeezing rules.

However, nothing on the paper actually says a bag of devouring can permanently kill the tarrasque.

Quote:
Creatures drawn within are consumed in 1 round. The bag destroys the victim's body and prevents any form of raising or resurrection that requires part of the corpse. There is a 50% chance that a wish, miracle, or true resurrection spell can restore a devoured victim to life. Check once for each destroyed creature. If the check fails, the creature cannot be brought back to life by mortal magic.
The tarrasque's regeneration does not require part of the corpse, and is not mortal magic. Therefore the tarrasque will rise from death 3 rounds after being consumed. RAW.

Wait, they do? What was I looking at then?

The question becomes, then, where does it regenerate? In the bag? Because it's not really "there" (or anywhere) anymore.

Shadow Lodge

Where the DM says it does.


...my head hurts...


It is implicit that it regenerates where its body is in the same way that it is implicit that creatures with the dead condition cannot take actions.


...and then both bags of devouring go into a bag of holding. The bag of holding is coated in adamantine and used as a cannonball to sunder the moon.


Its a race against time across the Plane of Shadow to find the Sphere of Annihilation and the lich who's using it as a garbage disposal and offer him the Tarrasque in trade! Or just bash the lich and use the Sphere on the Tarrasque...


StabbittyDoom wrote:
Piccolo wrote:
Starvation damage gets around any form of regeneration. Period. And it kills. Look it up.

No, it does not. Regeneration cannot heal damage from starvation, but damage cannot kill a creature with regeneration. The worst starvation can do is put it into a permanent unconscious state to awaken when someone force-feeds it (or die, if regen is suppressed).

Note that the below text never says that starvation bypasses the "cannot be killed" clause:

Regeneration Rules wrote:

Regeneration (Ex)

Close enough. Nobody in their right mind, or even a deity, would be lunatic enough to force feed this thing. Then all we'd have to do is toss it into the deepest ocean trench. Let it suffocate.


Piccolo wrote:


Close enough. Nobody in their right mind, or even a deity, would be lunatic enough to force feed this thing. Then all we'd have to do is toss it into the deepest ocean trench. Let it suffocate.

Except for deities and the many mortals who want chaos and destruction.


Rictras Shard wrote:
Piccolo wrote:


Close enough. Nobody in their right mind, or even a deity, would be lunatic enough to force feed this thing. Then all we'd have to do is toss it into the deepest ocean trench. Let it suffocate.

Except for deities and the many mortals who want chaos and destruction.

Even deities wouldn't want their worshipers wiped out. The equivalent for humans would be deliberately waking up a volcano just for kicks. Totally suicidal.

Even then, the Cannibal Ring would knock it out soon after, if not kill. As I recall, there was something about the description of regeneration which stated one wasn't immune to starvation.

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber
Piccolo wrote:
Even deities wouldn't want their worshipers wiped out. The equivalent for humans would be deliberately waking up a volcano just for kicks. Totally suicidal.

Rovagug says OM NOM NOM.

Also, Groteus is all about the end of everything.


Those aren't deities. Those are outright demons. Potent demons, but still just demons.

Deities, from what I recall, get their oomph from worshipers in game. Wiping them out would be twinkie level bad.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

"If you stat it, they will kill it"
I think the point of the tarrasque is that it cant be killed. It can be defeated, but it will come back for ever and ever. Its a "God" of nature I would say. It sleeps for 250 years and then wake up, destroy a few kingdom and them burrow back to a lair for an another 250 years. Its a "Natural" phenomena like a Tornado or a Tsunami.
And even if its killed, I'm pretty sure an another one would hatch soon after from the bottom of the earth and then come to earth.
You do not kill the tarrasque. You survive it.


Piccolo wrote:

Those aren't deities. Those are outright demons. Potent demons, but still just demons.

Deities, from what I recall, get their oomph from worshipers in game. Wiping them out would be twinkie level bad.

... aaaaaaactually, according to James Jacobs (the Creative Director of Paizo, and thus the closest to official word as anyone can ever have in Golarion canon) gods don't "need" worship to survive. And they're both gods.

Rovagug is a deity who is (more or less) an ascended qlippoth (in the same way Saranrae is an ascended angel and Asmodeus is an 'ascended' devil).

Groteus isn't even evil - he's chaotic neutral, and also quite ineffable. And may be a moon. And not really into the whole "corruption" thing (unless, of course, someone comes to trod all over him, in which case it's more crazy than corruption). Not very demonic, there, really.

The only goddess that was a demon is Lamashtu, but she is an actual goddess as well as a demon. And she may very well be interested in waking up Big T as well (if for no other reason than trying to mate with it/create interesting spawn out of it).

Zyphus is a neutral evil deity of meaningless death, so he'd be all over this stuff.

Gyrona is a hag deity of spite, and would willingly unleash it/bring it back to cause suffering of her foes.

Calistria is a chaotic neutral goddess of revenge, and dropping a Tarrasque on someone who "wronged" her would be her style.

Nethys is an insane neutral god of magic who wants to heal everything/make it better, but also simultaneously destroy everything (and has substantially potent wrath), and thus may be liable to drop a Tarrasque on a foo' who doesn't learn to recognize.

Heck, Asmodeus (who is, in Golarion, a deity) would definitely use his ability (or, more likely, get one of his clerics to use their ability) to waken Big T as a "bargaining chip" for all sorts of things.

Though necessarily exceedingly rare, a good deity (and/or their followers) might even find the need to reawaken a super-destroyer like Big T to unleash it against a powerful-enough/big-enough/numerous-enough evil (as Big T isn't evil itself, just an agent of destruction).

The point is, the Tarrasque is meant as a challenge. A GM is supposed to make up the way it can be overcome to make it unique to the game (though they would have done better to say that in the description, I think). The thing about rules is that there are several rules that conflict with each other revolving around Big T: regeneration says you can't die, but Big T's uses wording that says it "comes back from the dead" meaning... it has to be able to die. It says that it's immune to ability damage, but not ability drain, meaning that it's constitution can be brought to 0 and it can be killed... unless regeneration bypasses that. Since it's regeneration can't be "shut off", many people argue about what that means. Frankly, I'm of the camp that if you transform Big T into a creature without that special quality or a constitution (i.e. a zombie), than you're good to go, but some argue "it can't be shut off" as meaning "it'll always come back no matter what" or the (much weaker, in my opinion) argument "it says it hasn't been found, yet, which means it hasn't been found" (which, incidentally, means that it can never be found, if that statement is taken at face-value forever). Some (like me) advocate the Animate Dream method for taking it down, while others argue that it'd "totally destroy it" (though I can't personally see that as a valid argument).

Effectively, it seems there are those who want it to never be beatable by a group-think like the internet forums are, and there are those who do want clever ways to defeat it, and there are those that are in between.

Ultimately, it's a challenge that is meant to be beatable, if the GM wants it to be beatable.

Because there are stats and rules (something necessary to be a "challenge" at all, without the GM just saying, "hey: it's a challenge" in an arbitrary way) it's beatable in a large number of ways.

The only argument is whether or not it can "stay dead". I, for my own reasons, say "yes"... others, for their own reasons say "no".


Rubius wrote:
"If you stat it, they will kill it"

Spoony is great. Even when I disagree with him, I love watching his stuff. :)


Piccolo wrote:
The equivalent for humans would be deliberately waking up a volcano just for kicks. Totally suicidal.

There are people like that in the real world. They would be even worse in a fantasy world.


I don't use Golarion, ever. Got a much more detailed setting already, 3.5 Forgotten Realms.

It's still a lunatic idea to wipe out civilizations etc via a uncontrollable beastie.

I think it's utterly ridiculous NOT to allow a clever scheme to defeat a beastie. In fact, if my players come up with such, I reward the heck out of them. Intelligence, as opposed to mindlessly hacking, should always be rewarded over and above the norm.

The Ring would work, period. If only because there's nothing in the game that would prevent it. Then just toss the Tarrasque in the deepest ocean trench anyone knows of, it will drown, and end of T. Guaranteed way to tick off the deity that created it, eh?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber
Piccolo wrote:

I don't use Golarion, ever. Got a much more detailed setting already, 3.5 Forgotten Realms.

It's still a lunatic idea to wipe out civilizations etc via a uncontrollable beastie.

Have you seen some of the villains PC fight?

I mean, we've given you examples of people that really are that crazy, and you still deny the possibility?


Piccolo wrote:

I don't use Golarion, ever. Got a much more detailed setting already, 3.5 Forgotten Realms.

It's still a lunatic idea to wipe out civilizations etc via a uncontrollable beastie.

I think it's utterly ridiculous NOT to allow a clever scheme to defeat a beastie. In fact, if my players come up with such, I reward the heck out of them. Intelligence, as opposed to mindlessly hacking, should always be rewarded over and above the norm.

The Ring would work, period. If only because there's nothing in the game that would prevent it. Then just toss the Tarrasque in the deepest ocean trench anyone knows of, it will drown, and end of T. Guaranteed way to tick off the deity that created it, eh?

I started talking about Golarion gods because, well, we're talking Pathfinder, which specifically supports Golarion as its setting, but doesn't actively support Forgotten Realms (though certainly FR can be used with PF, which I do!), and you made the assertion that two actual gods of Golarion weren't. But, as you don't use Golarion, you can't be presumed to know about that stuff, so it's all cool. :)

There are plenty of gods in Forgotten Realms that would do it:
In Forgotten Realms Talos (or Gruumsh, if you like that 4E revelation) would be all over this, and may well personally interfere if something managed to defeat Big T. Again, Asmodeus (4E only; Gargauth in 3.X world) would hold this as a bargaining chip. Shar would lover herself some Big T (as she wants everything annulled anyway). Cyric would think that not only is Big T a great idea, but should have plenty - plenty! - of simulacrums of it running around for kicks and giggles. That's just off the top of my head.

Other gods (going at a quick look through my Faiths and Pantheons): Lolth (on elves or drow who displease her), Malar (perfect hunter), Beshaba (as a prank), Hoar (on the "unworthy"), Red Knight (to gain a tactical advantage), Sharess (on certain large-scale evils), and Ubtao (he likes dinos like Big T) from the main Pantheon. From the drow pantheon, any of them would use it to gain an advantage (except Eilistraee), Deep Duerra would use it if she could, Shevarash would drop it on any drow city at any time for no provocation, Urdlen would delight in the bloodshed, and of the Mulhorandi Pantheon, Anhur, Sebek, and Set would all use it, when necessary.

While I mention the gods themselves... their followers would generally do the exact same.

Oh, and Selune may be convinced to drop it onto the city of Shade.

Oh, and the Red Wizards would totally (attempt to) use that for their own purposes.

It's not so much a "lunatic idea" as it is an act of desperation or earned divine punishment against a tremendous-enough foe or set of foes (though some of the gods and their followers definitively fall under "lunatic" moniker).

In any event, I'm in wholehearted agreement that cleverness should be rewarded more than mindless hacking. Point in fact, that's one of the reasons I participate in the "here's how to defeat the Tarrasque" threads, because I'm curious what people come up with and think about these things, and like the idea.

The Cannibal Ring, however, is just not that good of an idea, because it specifies that it only requires "sentient meat" to negate the penalties, and if there's one thing Big T eats (in addition to everything else) it's "sentient meat" (see it's Swallow Whole ability). That means the Cannibal Ring just won't work (or, at best, it'll wake him up more often to force him to eat sentient meat from hunger).

A normally-cursed Ring of Sustenance with a "reversed effect" curse (instead of the Cannibal Ring) should suffice, however, to do much of what you want*. The trick there, of course, is in your own post above - you're guaranteed to tick some deity off or another and, unlike in Golarion, the gods rely on their worshipers... and thus are guaranteed to have some, and probably at least one that is high enough to resurrect the Tarrasque.

The point is not to say, "No, you can't do that in your games." (especially if you're GM), because you certainly can choose to (if you're the GM), but it is to say, "As written, this really doesn't work, and here, make sure you patch all these holes (or at least know they're there) because the idea, as it currently stands, has a lot of them."

Your assertion that, "The Ring would work, period." is not true except within the confines of a home game in which the GM permits it to work for all the reasons outlined above. Though, again, if you are the GM, or if your GM says its okay, than, yes, of course it will work.

I'm a huge fan of finding strange ways to defeat Big T. In 3.X, I had a plan to take my high-level elf psion, use the True Mindswitch psionic power on the Tarrasque, use the Mind Seed psionic power on my now-comparatively-tiny elf body (that would be humorously raging with my presumed strength/dexterity/and constitution scores with a number roughly equal to "rubbish") and hold onto it for about a week (probably by swallowing it)**. Once the eaten me had regained lower-level psionic powers, we'd use an epic variant of the Fusion psionic power to make what amounts to an immortal, eternal elf with all of Big T's benefits. Obviously, that doesn't work in PF for a number of reasons (not the least of which is that Big T is immune to mind-effecting effects).

But still, the point is, I'm a big fan of those kinds of things.

That's why I support the undead-drain plan, or the Animate Dream drain plan, or the kill-it-and-zombify-it-quickly plan, because those should all work.

But totally feel free to use the ring in your home campaign (And let us know that you're doing so! There's nothing wrong with that!), but to assert firmly that it "would work" in a non-qualifying way isn't correct, I'm afraid. :/

*

The problem of inhabited deserts and oceans:
Supposing you find the right desert or ocean. Deserts: the Anaroch should work, but you're going to have to deal with all the Shades and nomads around there; the Plains of Purple Dust should work, except there are too many giant purple worms for Big T to eat and a whole lot of storms; the Deserts around Calimshan might work, but it's a lot smaller, and you'd have to contend with angry genie spirits, though that might be your best bet desert-wise. Oceans: the Sea of Fallen Stars is pretty much right out because, well, you've got vengeful Umberlee and a metric ton of evil high-level spellcasters who are devoted to her, not to mention the Krakens and other powerful evil creatures who don't want Tarrasques dropped on top of them (this is a bad combination); the Lake of Steam is simply too shallow to do this effectively; and, while dropping him off the coast of Calimshan might seem preferable (especially if that's the desert you used), it's got its own share of problems, and Umberlee is still there. Not impossible, but these things come with their own issues.

** My original body would have had an "immunity to acid" plus "regeneration" ring that was also a "ring of sustenance" ring. He'd be good.


Y'know, the more I think about it, the more I feel like it would notice the ring being put on it. I know I'd notice someone putting a ring on my finger if I was rampaging. And hell, most animals would try and remove something foreign that was put on them, so I really wouldn't put it past the Tarrasque to simply gnaw his finger off to remove the ring.

Don't get me wrong, I like clever solutions. But unfortunately, Piccolo's solution has a lot of flaws in it that just wouldn't work.


That's pretty much exactly what I meant. Creative solutions are great! The straight-out-of-the-box Cannibal Ring... isn't, as written.

Here's the deal, though: a double or triple-cursed ring that not only has the reverse Sustenance effect, but also has some immediate benefit/penalty (like, say, a cursed "opposite effect" ring of improved jumping, climbing, and swimming or of "ferocious action, that "self identifies" as what it's supposed to be (but, of course, isn't) and imbues the wielder with the "delusion" curse (where the bearer seems to think it is working properly, but, of course, it isn't) and the "possessiveness" curse (Big T has a low will save), you've got a pretty solid reason for Big T (who isn't an animal, and has above-animal intelligence) to keep it on.

If you add the Cannibal Ring curse to the whole mix, then you might have a pretty solid strategy for getting the ring on and it staying on (as Big T would be unable to get rid of it once that curse kicks in), or, alternatively (and preferably) if there was a way of making it "remove curse only to remove", that would be ideal as you want to avoid encouraging it to eat sentient meat (as it stands, it seems extremely vague whether or not you can do so).

You'd probably want to bluff the fact that you're a "big fan" or something, first, though.

However another drawback here is you'd be expending a lot of resources to make a really nifty-looking ring that only the Tarrasque would ever use - you hope - and you've got to do some pretty hard flubbing to make ti that way; and, of course, you're relying on tricking the Tarrasque (which it notes is hard to do) and the possessiveness not being a mind-affecting effect (by RAW, it's not noted as such, so it's probably not, but by RAI, it seems like it would have to be). So... potential failure points along the way.

Still, I can see potential in this.


I personally like wishing his regeneration gone, then wailing on him, then raising him as a zombie. Tarrasque zombie! Which, incidentally, would only be CR 9


But with 30 HD! :D


Ooh.. good call. Can't make him into a Zombie since it's above the HD table. Admittedly, as a GM, I could allow it. In fact, would make an interesting final dungeon boss...


Generally speaking, the Wish spell works perfectly when used within the described guidelines. The moment you start making creative wishes, the moment things can go wrong and you don't get what you bargained for. Using a wish to kill a Tarrasque? As a GM, I'd make sure this wish doesn't do quite what you wanted.

Though, I'm surprised how strongly people link "defeat" with "kill". You cannot kill a Tarrasque, but there's many ways to stop him for several thousand years (weird doom cults not withstanding).


Also, perhaps I missed somebody saying this or perhaps they issued errata, but last I looked the Tarrasque is not immune to ability drain.

Teleport him into an underground chamber filled with Wraiths. It will take a lot of wraiths but they will do it eventually; he can't attack incorporeal creatures after-all. This chamber should be magically built very deep underground and in a secret location known only to the mage who will spring the final trap.

Alternatively, summon the wraiths first to knock him out, THEN commit to the underground chamber. Either way, same destination.

After the Tarrasque is in position, create a permanent Teleport Trap that redirects all teleportation into this chamber into a small cell with an iron cage wall (so not to block the line of effect). On the opposite wall, with a 5-foot gap between, place a magical trap that fires off Antimagic Field (proximity trigger, automatic reset) constantly after detecting. Very few people could escape this trap and hopefully nobody is expecting it. For good measure, maybe throw in a Permanent Symbol of Death just in case somebody manages to take down the Antimagic Field.

For full safety, there would be no exit clause/password for the Teleport Trap. The mage who teleports the Tarrasque in and then casts the Teleport Trap may need to live out the rest of his days down in the chamber. Hopefully you prepare a separate room/home part of the dungeon so at least he doesn't need to live in the same chamber as the Tarrasque and Wraiths.

He's not dead, but how many centuries would go by before something actually happens to free him again? He's essentially perpetually being knocked out, with no actual way to get to him other than digging.

Dark Archive

Here's another one:

"If a portable hole is placed within a bag of holding, it opens a gate to the Astral Plane: the hole, the bag, and any creatures within a 10-foot radius are drawn there, destroying the portable hole and bag of holding in the process."

Yes, you end up in the astral plane. But at least you saved your planet from total destruction. Then again, eliminating the top of the foodchain could have some nasty consequences for the entire ecosystem.
Also, I think I made up a new game! Toss a portable hole in someone else's bag of holding from a distance of 15 feet and win a fabulous prize!

Now if people would check out the original description of the Tarrasque, they would notice that it does indeed come out to forage and that it is in fact an omnivore.
http://mmadnd.chat.ru/MM00281.htm


the David >> The reason I didn't think that sending the Tarrasque to another plane is a good idea is the denizens of the other plane might have something to say about it. It might be back sooner than you think, with an other-worldy army coaxing it on.


Odraude wrote:
Ooh.. good call. Can't make him into a Zombie since it's above the HD table. Admittedly, as a GM, I could allow it. In fact, would make an interesting final dungeon boss...

Checking the zombie listing it's pretty clear (from my reading, anyway, others may have different interpretations) the table is inclusive and descriptive instead of a limiting and prohibitive.

A skeleton is right out, because it limits it by natural hit dice, but zombies are not limited in that way.

(And I was wrong... it'd be 40 HD because it's colossal.)

In any event, the only real limitation I can see is whether or not you could find the onyx necessary to use animate dead on the thing (which would be a 1,000 gold piece onyx for a 40 HD undead).

I'd certainly allow it, anyway. :)

Reference putting bags and holes together... if you could get it inside of a bag or portable hole first, and then put them together, everything inside gets "lost forever". Hm... maybe that translates into the Tarrasque just never knowing where it is? Poor confused little enormous guy...


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Piccolo wrote:


The Ring would work, period. If only because there's nothing in the game that would prevent it.

I have shown you numerous ways it would be prevented, and you haven't given a clear rebuttal for any of them.


GrenMeera wrote:

Also, perhaps I missed somebody saying this or perhaps they issued errata, but last I looked the Tarrasque is not immune to ability drain.

Teleport him into an underground chamber filled with Wraiths. It will take a lot of wraiths but they will do it eventually; he can't attack incorporeal creatures after-all. This chamber should be magically built very deep underground and in a secret location known only to the mage who will spring the final trap.

Alternatively, summon the wraiths first to knock him out, THEN commit to the underground chamber. Either way, same destination.

After the Tarrasque is in position, create a permanent Teleport Trap that redirects all teleportation into this chamber into a small cell with an iron cage wall (so not to block the line of effect). On the opposite wall, with a 5-foot gap between, place a magical trap that fires off Antimagic Field (proximity trigger, automatic reset) constantly after detecting. Very few people could escape this trap and hopefully nobody is expecting it. For good measure, maybe throw in a Permanent Symbol of Death just in case somebody manages to take down the Antimagic Field.

For full safety, there would be no exit clause/password for the Teleport Trap. The mage who teleports the Tarrasque in and then casts the Teleport Trap may need to live out the rest of his days down in the chamber. Hopefully you prepare a separate room/home part of the dungeon so at least he doesn't need to live in the same chamber as the Tarrasque and Wraiths.

He's not dead, but how many centuries would go by before something actually happens to free him again? He's essentially perpetually being knocked out, with no actual way to get to him other than digging.

For incorporeal, someone pointed out that since their natural weapons are considered magic (and epic) for overcoming damage reduction, it could hit incorporeal. Feels like a stretch but it's not really that OP.

The Exchange

1 person marked this as a favorite.

The ring won't work. Period. If for no other reason than there's nothing in the book that supports your assumptions.

There, I can do that too.

151 to 200 of 220 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / General Discussion / I found a way to defeat the Tarrasque. All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.