Lockdown monk?

[Scrynor]

Sicken + sicken == Nausea right?

So does this work? Lvl 8, Maneuver master monk with greater dirty trick. The monk dirty tricks to sicken the enemy and then stunning fists them to sicken in one flurry. Does it upgrade to nauseated? Stunning fist says it can't combine with itself but doesn't mention combining with other things that caused the same effect. And once nauseated the creature lacks the standard action to clear the dirty trick. So did you just lock a guy down for 1d4+X rounds?

Is this super good or are there so many ways to nauseate (or stack sickness into nausea) or hard disable people that it really isn't that big a deal?

[RumpinRufus]

Where are you getting the impression that sickened + sickened = nauseated?

[Rynjin]

Fatigued + fatigued = Exhausted, and that's the only one I know of that does that.

[Scrynor]

From the description of stunning fist.

"These effects do not stack with themselves (a creature sickened by Stunning Fist cannot become nauseated if hit by Stunning Fist again), but additional hits do increase the duration."

That clause made me assume that sicken + sicken == nauseated, but not if both sickens come from stunning fist.

Does it not?

[BackedUp20]

Scrynor wrote:

From the description of stunning fist.

"These effects do not stack with themselves (a creature sickened by Stunning Fist cannot become nauseated if hit by Stunning Fist again), but additional hits do increase the duration."

That clause made me assume that sicken + sicken == nauseated, but not if both sickens come from stunning fist.

Does it not?

I can't say I know for sure. But the rule states for stunning fist that "A creature sickened by Stunning Fist CANNOT become nauseated if hit by Stunning Fist again" but I can't find anywhere else that it says that the Sickened condition DOES normally stack to equal nauseated. That doesn't mean that rule is not there just I didn't find it with the few minutes I spent looking for it.

If you can find somewhere it say's that sickened + sickened = nauseated rather then just inferring it does, then I would allow it at my table.

[Dabbler]

The OP is talking about stacking sickened from stunning fist with sickened from dirty trick. Problem is, nothing says that two sickened's stack to make a nauseated, so the answer is 'no' so far as I can tell.

[Scrynor]

Right. It was the text in stunning fist itself that made me think sicken + sicken == nauseated. I confess I've never really looked elsewhere to see if that fact is true. Why would it say that if it wasn't? Is it a relic of old rules? Like maybe they removed that from sicken but forgot to update the stunning first text?

So 2 hanging questions:
1) Everyone agrees sicken + sicken != nauseate making the whole thing moot?
2) Would it work with fatigue? Does order matter? Say frostbite first and then stunning fist to cause exhaustion?

[Rynjin]

2.) Would work.

[DeltaOneG]

Fatigued is special.

Quote:

Fatigued: A fatigued character can neither run nor charge and takes a –2 penalty to Strength and Dexterity. Doing anything that would normally cause fatigue causes the fatigued character to become exhausted. After 8 hours of complete rest, fatigued characters are no longer fatigued.

link

However

Quote:

These effects do not stack with themselves (a creature sickened by Stunning Fist cannot become nauseated if hit by Stunning Fist again), but additional hits do increase the duration.

Which doesn't make sense because sickened (as far as I can tell) doesn't stack with itself anyway to make nauseated. However, it does mean that stunning fist, by itself, does not follow the rule of fatigued + fatigued = exhausted.

However, if they are fatigued from something else (like frostbite fist) then yes, they would become exhausted.

[Michael Sayre]

I believe that the reference to Sickened and Nauseated is a relic of the previous edition where this was in fact the case. They appear to have removed all other references of Sickened stacking to Nauseated from Pathfinder.

[Dabbler]

Scrynor wrote:

1) Everyone agrees sicken + sicken != nauseate making the whole thing moot?

Looks like it.

Scrynor wrote:

2) Would it work with fatigue? Does order matter? Say frostbite first and then stunning fist to cause exhaustion?

Sure, it should work.

However, this whole series ignores the chances of getting a successful stunning fist on aren't that great.

1) You have to hit the non-touch AC, and monks can have problems hitting in any event. You only get one stunning fist attempt per round.

2) You have to do damage through any DR the target has.

3) They have to fail a save that is not based (in all likelihood) on your best ability score.

I once worked out on one of the many monk threads that against an average CR, with a 'good' fort save, a well made monk (one with Wisdom as his second stat and his best stat as his hitting stat) at 10th level had about a 10% chance of getting a successful stunning fist on any given round.

I once took a monk from first level through to 8th using stunning fist every combat I could before I got my first success (three times in a row, though, which kind of made up for it a little).

I guess I am trying to say, don't expect miracles.