Dedicated Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7
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@N. Edward
Yeah I think I should have just made it an intimidate check. In my notes there were going to be two checks, 1 knowledge (history) with a DC of 10+HD of strongest foe to identify some loose connection between the Champion and the target, which would give them a huge bonus to intimidate. But then I was trying to figure out how that helped the Champion's companions and in the end, sense I wasn't going on, I didn't push it further.
As far as the improved initiative, several of the Champion's boasts rely on the Champion getting to the enemy first, since Dex is like a 3rd priority for Barbs, I felt improved initiative would help them.
And like I said to Jacob, my final draft was going to have language about being shaken all day and it not being removable or avoidable without the use of Limited Wish, Wish or Miracle. Though I was torn on what benefit to give the successful boaster.
Thanks for the feedback, if I ever revise this, though it will definitely help.
Cursed Peddler- i don't really get this one... i don't know who Gyronna is but i don't see much connection with RK here, or between the flavor text and the abilities- what does being on the move have to do with forcing people to use things, or making cursed items? for your class skills, you should only list changes, not the full list. sales pitch is way overpowered- trading a feat for a feat is usually fine (unless one has a bunch of prereqs you get to ignore) but trading one for another plus the ability to force people to drink poison or cover themselves in acid or whatever is not a reasonable trade. plus it doesn't make sense that you could do this to an enemy but not an ally, but doing it to any ally causes action economy issues when you 'trick' someone into drinking a potion as an immediate action (instead of standard). i recognize that your trying to elimante that by specifying "opponent" but again- that doesn't make sense and may just lead to 'well, player x doesn't want to take this potion and drink it but i want him to, so we're opponents until its resolved...' i'm not sure about cursed crafting either- can't you already choose to make a cursed item? and what compulsion effect can you add? the way that's stated doesn't provide any guidance at all. i hope that doesn't come off as too harsh- i think there are some good seeds in here, it just doesn't coalesce for me.
Master Thrower- "Like I told my last wife, I says, 'Honey, I never drive faster than I can see. Besides that it's all in the reflexes.'" ok, so i'm obviously a sucker for the jack burton homage- so i really want to love this, but its not quite there for me. i like shield catch, and i mostly like all in the reflexes (especially the name), but i don't think they play well together. also, for the "At 11th level" section- you need to clarify whether or not your allowing the immediate attack even without a free hand (and the answer should be not). "This is Jack Burton in the Pork Chop Express, and I'm talkin' to whoever's listenin' out there."
Upstart Aesthete- 'the tyranny of the tasteless' i think that's my favorite phrase from any of the archetypes i've read so far- nice writing. on the whole i think this is pretty good, i do think the vermillion needs some tweaking though... your effectively trading bull's strength (or whichever 2nd level buff) and barkskin for blur, faerie fire castable at will, and unlimited free action flares with a much higher DC than normal- and you ditched having a penalty associated with it. i like the idea but the concept needs a little more balancing.
end of page one (YAY!)
Cursed Peddler- i don't really get this one... i don't know who Gyronna is but i don't see much connection with RK here, or between the flavor text and the abilities- what does being on the move have to do with forcing people to use things, or making cursed items? for your class skills, you should only list changes, not the full list. sales pitch is way overpowered- trading a feat for a feat is usually fine (unless one has a bunch of prereqs you get to ignore) but trading one for another plus the ability to force people to drink poison or cover themselves in acid or whatever is not a reasonable trade. plus it doesn't make sense that you could do this to an enemy but not an ally, but doing it to any ally causes action economy issues when you 'trick' someone into drinking a potion as an immediate action (instead of standard). i recognize that your trying to elimante that by specifying "opponent" but again- that doesn't make sense and may just lead to 'well, player x doesn't want to take this potion and drink it but i want him to, so we're opponents until its resolved...' i'm not sure about cursed crafting either- can't you already choose to make a cursed item? and what compulsion effect can you add? the way that's stated doesn't provide any guidance at all. i hope that doesn't come off as too harsh- i think there are some good seeds in here, it just doesn't coalesce for me.
Thanks for the feedback!
Spoilered because it got more longwinded than I meant it too!
Gyronna is a goddess worshipped round the RK, and a standard Gyronna clause is in most contracts (paraphrasing the player's guide) in case something should go wrong with whatever's being sold.
That out of the way, my concept was mainly for a peddler who literally is cursed with making cursed items or items that have some drawback. In the RK contracts are supposed to be like gold almost and a merchant has to live by their word. I wanted to portray a peddler who has to keep moving around BECAUSE his stuff always goes wrong or unexpectedly. When the twist was announced I started adding stuff, but quit revising when the Top 32 were announced.
It's true, I tried to specify opponent, but I also wanted them to be able to do it to allies (if it was a beneficial potion for example haste. You give up a standard and grant the ally a potion of haste which for them is an immediate action.
I had thought about Sales Pitch being overpowered, but you still have to successfully feint and if there is a save (reflex for example) it still applies.
Cursed Crafting was my big swing. I love crafting, and I love cursed items, and I was thinking it was an underdeveloped space. The compulsion effect was a relic of further editing...it's supposed to be the requirement effect of a cursed item (outlined in the magic items section of the Core Rulebook)
Totally not too harsh, I agree that each of these points you bring up are things that I should be thinking about if I want to be a designer.
Thanks again for your time and feedback.
Praise is great, but criticism is useful. These are my thoughts as I read your archetype. In most cases they are gut reactions, and I've spent but a fraction of the time considering your archetype as you spent crafting it (I hope!).
Branthlend Witch (Witch) [443 words]
I can't comment on the RK tie-in, as I haven't heard of any of those things.
Hampered Casting: This isn't as bad as it would be for just about any other non-druid full-caster, due to having that one Hex. It kisses 9th level spells goodbye, and forces the witch to rely on her hexes, retributive hex, and her evolutions to get through the first few levels, all as a half-BAB d6 class. It's certainly ballsy, and since the Witch is all about the powerful all or nothing spells, this will lower their DCs by about 3 for the spells they cast as compared to what's expected at that level, just from getting later access to lower spells. This is still a heavy cost though. Real heavy.
Retributive Hex: When I first read this one, my first thought was that it was giving the Retribution major hex with a weird limit per day. That hex had a close name and would make sense given the flavor. I now see that it's basically a super Quicken Hex. I think if you had said "as an immediate action use a hex on her attacker" it'd be a bit more clear. There's also a very low number of hexes that you could actually be used here, so if you don't select one of those hexes, you have a useless ability. This probably isn't necessary, but if you have something about the hex is still bound by the normal restrictions of the hex, you are anticipating the cheaseweasels trying to abuse this ability.
Dying Wrath: That's pretty niche, but also pretty dang evocative. Kind of a waste of a hex, IMO, but since this witch will be more up in the face of enemies, I can see this actually seeing some use. Especially since they can't wear armor and have d6 hit die.
Vengeance Incarnate: The best for last! Anything that adds evolutions is a red flag for me. My first thought upon reading was that you're trying to do in a few words what the synthesist tried to do in a whole archetype. It's true that most of that archetype is attempting to merge the rules of the eidolon and the PC, which you've side-stepped, but there were some other considerations in there that you missed. The one that's foremost in my head is that you could get Ability Increase to get a higher Int score. This is somewhat mitigated by the delayed casting, but it'll help a lot with your hexes. Especially since you have one shot with those without accursed hex feat. I'm not a huge fan of that aspect of your archetype.
The bonus to hit, damage, and AC needs to be clarified. Is it that per 3 levels with no minimum, so at first level you don't get any bonuses? Or is it minimum +1 hit/damage and +2 AC? Does it start at +1 hit/damage +2 AC and increase to +2 hit/damage +4 AC at 4th level and every 3 levels thereafter?
The evolutions also let you by-pass one of the major issues with a 1/2 BAB martial character. The fact that you don't get a second attack until level 11 really doesn't hurt if you can have 2 claws and a bite at 1st level. That you may or may not get a bonus to hit and damage with. The bonus to-hit won't quite offset the 1/2 BAB as compared to full BAB, but it does make them close to 3/4ths BAB guys. And the flat boosts to damage are nice too.
One issue I have with this is that it adds quite a bit of versatility to the witch. If you know ahead of time what you'll need for that day, you could easily get Skilled in whatever you want to get a +8 (!!!). Or any other evolutions you'd need.
There's also the issue of base-form restricted evolutions. It doesn't say I need to take only Bipedal base-form evolutions. In fact, you don't really even have a base-form in the Eidolon sense, although that's only strictly speaking. So you should add something like "as an eidolon with the bipedal base form". Or get real fancy and have it be the baseform of what the witch normally is. This, of course, could cause corner case issues for some creatures, but they probably won't be witches anyways. So, it's best to just assume normal bipedal PCs.
The limited rounds per day is smart. I'm not a fan of entering a maintained ability as a standard action and not really getting much benefit from it until you've already used up one round per day, but that's more an issue with the general system. Making it a standard action to enter was smart, given the current rules. Due to the standard-action start though, we can expect maybe 2 combats where this is used at first level, although every level after extends this by a bit. By 5th or 6th level we can easily spend 4 combats in this form if we want. And making it so that it can't be pre-buffed is also smart. It forces real choice on the witch, as they have to decide between hulking out or using hexes / spells.
Unfortunately, that's also a problem for the archetype. If we're assuming 4 encounters per day as we generally should, at early levels we don't have enough rounds to do our schtick fairly often. For a bard or barbarian, this isn't such a large issue as you can easily do other things. But with the Witch? Well she can't cast spells. And that just leaves hexes. And that's kind of a problem. What if she chose a party buff hex at first level? Eventually you'll get to the point (quite soon, actually) where you can't use that on your allies anymore. So you're left with not much to do unless you spent your feat on Extra Hex. Enemy targeting hexes will give you more things to do for longer periods of time, but then you're just relegated to doing the same thing over and over and that too is an issue.
Making it a transmutation (polymorph) effect was very smart too, and helps limit abuses. I think you could get away with just saying polymorph-effect, but that's an academic point.
Archetype Compatibility: ...Stupid scarred witch doctor...
In the end, I think this is too precariously balanced. The Hampered Casting really hurts, to the point where I'm not so sure it's really a Witch anymore. The full-casting ability is such an integral part of what it means to be the full-casting classes that monkeying with it and making them start getting spells at the same level a (not-very wise) ranger does is a bit weird. Then adding the evolutions on makes it really strong, and when you have one really hurtful factor and one very strong factor, it's not so easy to make it so they are balanced.
The idea has merit though. I particularly like the idea of a vengeance focused witch. She's making pacts with forces she does not understand to enact revenge on those she has wronged. I think that this would mean that the familiar wouldn't just be a "normal" familiar, but something special, but word limits hit hard. The archetype reminded me of the Hellion, which is SGG's latest class. It's the martial version of the Witch, so I am sure you can see why I was reminded of it :)
Aldori Rascal- i'm no expert on the setting, but isn't aldori separate from the river kingdoms? either way, i also don't know enough to know whether or not this appropriate for aldori duels. the mechanics seem pretty decent. i was very skeptical about getting a 'mockery pool' in exchange for just trapfinding- but its uses are limited enough that it doesn't seem to bad. i'm a little concerned about frustrated, but given how seldom you'd be able to capitalize on the sneak attacks from that flat-footed condition its probably ok (makes a 2nd rogue seem pretty handy though).
Uringen Sentinel- i like paladins but this isn't really working for me... unstuck resolve is interesting but it's the only real change you make and it doesn't fit nicely with the rest of a paladins abilities. plus there are no "rolls against...combat maneuvers" so, as written, it only actually applies to compulsions (which paladins gain immunity to eventually) and the two or three teleport effects that allow a save, and i'm not sure mercy is the right thing to replace anyways. you changed the capstone (which is good- the normal one is terrible, and the primary reason that most high level paladins have a dip in some other class), but i think this went too far... there are other classes with a similar ability but they always have some drawback and/or limitation- this just completely remove death from the equation.
Wyvern Tamer- i like your intro, and this is definitely a bold design. i can see from your class skills that you still mostly play 3.5 (in pathfinder 'perception' is one skill encompassing spot and listen), and i wonder if that influenced how you have wyvern mount working (i don't remember how animal companions worked in 3.5- i played a druid/wizard for a while, but that was years ago). the way you worked this, your wyvern mount would only have 2 hit dice at 8th level... that may be about right to balance it against other mounts at that level, but i doubt your flying, biting, stinging, raking mount that lets your charge in and out of combat is going to last long with only 21 hit points. my biggest issue, really, is that you replace challenge and order which are sort of the two iconic cavalier abilities- to me this seems like maybe more of an alternate class than an archetype.
Uringen Chronologist- i like this. its interesting and seems pretty sound mechanically. lend time is a good power; borrow time is too, though you should clarify whether or not that non-lethal damage can in anyway be mitigated (like by picking up the 3rd level power of the sorcerer's undead bloodline with eldritch heritage). the writing in other-time aspect could be cleaned up (i suspect you were up against the wordcount there). my only complaint really is that i'm not a fan of replacing the feats with these powers. i wonder if maybe you could have done this even better by replacing school specialization with sort of 'time domain' sort of thing that granted these powers instead of normal school abilities and added some spells (like 3fold aspect) to your spell list?
Warmuse of Uringen- wow... another really bold design. with the teamwork performance you should include teamwork feats as options for bonus feats, and i worry that faux flank (and a bonus feat at 1st) might make this a no brainer dip for rogues in low level campaigns- though the save tied to class level (and extra level of 0 BAB) would probably take care of that. the problem is that taking spells away from a bard is, IMO, way past an archetype and into alternate class territory (and even with 7 bonus feats i'm not sure you made up for it... in fact, i don't think you did... being able to pick up fighter only feats would have helped... maybe a little snaek attack damage too?)
that's all i have time for now- i'll try to do a couple more before bed.
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Cheapy, thanks for the awesome review. I really appreciate it. I'm going to spoiler this for length concerns
I think if you had said "as an immediate action use a hex on her attacker" it'd be a bit more clear.
That would be more clear, but my concern was that it would mean the hex would take effect before the results of the attack were determined, which I didn't want. I thought that might be a little too cheasy, since I think you'd almost automatically do evil eye to reduce the foe's attack roll (you still might do that, but I feel like it's less cheesy).
You're also right about the name. I think it was originally vengeful hex but I started thinking "venge" was showing up too much. Maybe another trip to the thesaurus, though. And, yeah, it does limit hexes, but all my experience with witches have them going for evil eye very quickly. That likely influenced that choice (I'd certainly want it so after the first time I was hit my foe either gets a -2 to hit or -2 AC). I think saying it's bound by the normal restriction of the hex would make sense -- I sort of tried to imply that by saying the target must be within range but losing that and being really explicit about it would make good design sense.
Dying Wrath: That's pretty niche, but also pretty dang evocative. Kind of a waste of a hex, IMO, but since this witch will be more up in the face of enemies, I can see this actually seeing some use. Especially since they can't wear armor and have d6 hit die.
Thanks. I also liked this one. Since I think the witch *may* go down a touch more, it seemed like it could be useful. Also just really fit the theme. I hate losing hexes, since that's to me the real point of the witch, but you can get Extra Hex at 7th or 9th level, which would be right before/after this step if you do a straight witch progression, so that made up for it for me a little. (I also thought about making it 10th level, but losing that first major hex would annoy the heck out of me as a player.)
Vengeance Incarnate: The best for last! Anything that adds evolutions is a red flag for me. My first thought upon reading was that you're trying to do in a few words what the synthesist tried to do in a whole archetype. It's true that most of that archetype is attempting to merge the rules of the eidolon and the PC, which you've side-stepped, but there were some other considerations in there that you missed. The one that's foremost in my head is that you could get Ability Increase to get a higher Int score. This is somewhat mitigated by the delayed casting, but it'll help a lot with your hexes. Especially since you have one shot with those without accursed hex feat. I'm not a huge fan of that aspect of your archetype.
I hadn't really thought about this, I'll admit, since I was more thinking she'd use this ability on her physical stats, as she's really MAD. I'm OK with someone choosing 3 evolution points at level 18 to give herself +3 to DC; that doesn't seem like that much.
Thinking about it, however, that could cause some havoc if you decide to cast while transformed: How are bonus spells from the improved Int dealt with? I think it probably needs a line about any spells cast while transformed coming first from bonus spells from improved Int, which is certainly a bit awkward.
The bonus to hit, damage, and AC needs to be clarified. Is it that per 3 levels with no minimum, so at first level you don't get any bonuses? Or is it minimum +1 hit/damage and +2 AC? Does it start at +1 hit/damage +2 AC and increase to +2 hit/damage +4 AC at 4th level and every 3 levels thereafter?
My thought was the latter, with a minimum +1/+2. Based on feedback, it definitely seems like I may need to boost this to scaling up every 4th level instead of 3rd, though I was aiming to make her act as about a 3/4 BAB character.
There's also the issue of base-form restricted evolutions. It doesn't say I need to take only Bipedal base-form evolutions. In fact, you don't really even have a base-form in the Eidolon sense, although that's only strictly speaking. So you should add something like "as an eidolon with the bipedal base form". Or get real fancy and have it be the baseform of what the witch normally is. This, of course, could cause corner case issues for some creatures, but they probably won't be witches anyways. So, it's best to just assume normal bipedal PCs.
Again, agreed. I sort of thought that was a given, but probably does need to state it clearly.
Unfortunately, that's also a problem for the archetype. If we're assuming 4 encounters per day as we generally should, at early levels we don't have enough rounds to do our schtick fairly often. For a bard or barbarian, this isn't such a large issue as you can easily do other things. But with the Witch? Well she can't cast spells. And that just leaves hexes. And that's kind of a problem. What if she chose a party buff hex at first level? Eventually you'll get to the point (quite soon, actually) where you can't use that on your allies anymore. So you're left with not much to do unless you spent your feat on Extra Hex. Enemy targeting hexes will give you more things to do for longer periods of time, but then you're just relegated to doing the same thing over and over and that too is an issue.
Hmm, this may be again due to how I've seen witches be played, which is mostly using evil eye a lot.
The hellion does seem like it's similar, but I like the transforming nature of this witch, which feels very apropos of the theme to me (and again played off the original text I was taking inspiration from). I wish I thought some of the spells worked better for what I wanted (I went through and made lists of all the "aspect," "form," and "shape" spells and just didn't quite think it did it justice) but evolutions seemed like the best mechanic I could find.
Again, thanks for the detailed review. It was fascinating to read it.
Well, you asked for my opinion, so...
And by the way, this goes for most people, I probably won't have time to respond to responses. This takes awhile, yo!
The Thrice Bound (Wizard)
I had to read this one a few times to get it straight. It may have been the subject matter or the writing, but something about it wasn't clicking.
Familiar Item: I don't think this is a fair trade-off at all. You get quite a lot for not giving up much. Familiars can be amazingly useful, and the extra spell per day is just ace. Plus, the second ability you get from the school is often 'worse' than the first one. What's the action cost to change? I assume standard. Is it the familiar's standard action, or your own? I think it'd be better if it were your own standard action. How does adding the enhancement (Sean goes ballistic if people say enchantment when they mean enhancement. Fair warning!) to the familiar work? Just to hit and damage? How does this work with non-weapon bonded items? Also, make it (Su). Swapping between intelligent object and animal is supernatural. :) I can just imagine all the shenanigans possible with this ability. Have your imp start a fire or go bite someone, and then it turns into a ring, vanishing in thin air.
Improved Familiar Item: Smart move to make it so they can't both be in the same type of form. This does assuages my concerns of using two familiars with UMD. How would they switch though? Unless they both ready an action to switch, or if you...somehow use two standard actions to switch...you're going to have both out at the same time one way or the other. Does one switching force the other into the other mode? The special improved familiar item ability just lets you apply metamagic without the increased spell level? Or does it really let you cast a spell you hadn't prepared with metamagic applied to it equal to half your level? We get the ability at 8th level, so this means we can already ignore the +4 of Quicken. At 10th level, can we cast a quickened extended spell for free? Really not a fan of this ability.
Companion Bound: I choose the party fighter. Party fighter dies. Doesn't come back. Am I SOL?
All together, I didn't like this one. They don't have to make a choice of familiar or bonded item, and actually get both at some point. Both of these abilities are pretty powerful if played right. It doesn't replace the strongest ability of most arcane schools, and still gives the best benefit of picking a school: extra spell slot per level! It's quite powerful for these reasons.
I do, however, like something your archetype hinted at. And that's making the bonded item more interesting. I think there's potential in that design space. Someone wisely explored this design space in Wayfinder #1 or #2, but I haven't seen much after that (other than the Hellion I mentioned above). Bring on more of this!
So, time to focus on that "constructive" part of the phrase "constructive criticism". (Also, time to ignore the word count limit!)
What if we got rid of all of the abilities of the school but the first, and forced the choice of the bonded item? What could we do there?
Well, we could have an ability that lets the item be animated for a short while. Or maybe have an item that got special powers based on the type of bonded item it was (weapon, wand, staff, yada ya). This would be pretty cool, but isn't really tied too strongly with leaving just some of the arcane school abilities left.
What about having the bonded item gain abilities based on the school you chose? What if the item had these abilities, but they were also modified by the type of bonded item it was? I think that's pretty cool, and while it would completely sunder the word limit, I think that's less important to focus on right now.
That's going pretty off-track from your original theme, but it's at least tied to it.
Going back to the original themes, closing all the issues I raised would help, although I personally think this is one of those "shouldn't be done" cases, so giving ideas on how to strengthen this is harder for me. I suppose the best advice would look to tighten up the writing, and try to think of more corner cases.
I'll commend you again for closing the "three sets of actions" issue that I was fearful of. That is a far larger corner case than the Third Bond's corner case, so kudos for closing it. In addition, the design space of improving the bonded item was smart.
I didn't actually have a finished archetype for this. Had a half-way built "old man of the woods" wizard, but then found out I didn't hit the top 32. Otherwise I'd definitely be posting one for you guys to tear apart.
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Well, you asked for my opinion, so...
That was really helpful, I've learned from my item and my archetype that things that seem obvious to me as to how they would work are not obvious to others, my writing is too dense and not descriptive enough. I will eventually develope both this and my listening stone extensively.
GM_Solspiral, you hit exactly one of the TOP lessons I've learned throughout this competition.
What is obvious for me, is NOT obvious for anyone else unless you put it down in writing.
Waystrider (Magus)
...
This is a pretty cool. I always wished there was a magus archetype like 4th Edition's teleporting Swordmage. Still, I think a few tweaks would make it better.
Far Step: I would have made this more like Shift from the conjuration/teleportation wizard school, in my opinion. Either that, or state that Far Step could be considered a spell on the magus spelllist for the purposes of Spell Combat. That way, a magus could stab someone and then teleport a couple of spaces away at the cost of a point and the -2 attack penalty. Also, making it a spell-like ability is rather messy.
Bonus Feat: I would have set the description something like "A waystrider adds Dimensional Agility and any feat with Dimensional Agility as a prerequisite to his list of available bonus feats. Far step benefits and functions as a prerequisite for these feats." Much cleaner and reduces the word count.
Following Step: I have mixed feelings about this one. On one hand, this is a pretty awesome and flavorful way to thwart a bad guy's escape. On the other hand, you're giving up a really good class feature that augments Spell Recall in exchange for a highly situational ability. I think a more suitable replacement would augment Far Step, like an ability that lets you use Far Step as a swift action upon confirming a critical hit.
Escaping Step: Pretty cool.
Overall, I thought it had some balancing issues and needed a tweak. However, I liked it more than most of the archetypes that made it in the top 32.
Here's mine (440 words):
Greenreaver (Alchemist)
Greenreavers venerate the Green Faith. Natural philosophers devoted to the Oakstewards of Sevenarches, they rely on intellect where druids rely on intuition. Greenreavers sacrifice bombs and poison use in order to revel in bestial forms. They defend Sevenarches as scouts and skirmishers.
Class Skills: A greenreaver gains Acrobatics, Climb, Intimidate, and Stealth as class skills and does not gain Disable Device, Knowledge arcana, Sleight of Hand, and Use Magic Device as class skills.
Bestial Mojo (Sp): Each level the greenreaver adds 1 spell from the list of druid spells as an extract of the same level to his formula book. The selected spell must be one that can target the greenreaver and be of a level he can cast.
This replaces Brew Potion.
Feral Mutagen (Su): At 1st level, the greenreaver gains the Feral Mutagen discovery.
This replaces Throw Anything.
Rend (Ex): At 1st level, when the greenreaver hits an opponent with two or more natural attacks in the same round, he causes an additional 1d6 points of damage. At 3rd level, and every 2 levels beyond 3rd, this damage increases by 1d6.
This replaces the bomb ability.
Enhance Mutagen (Su): At 2nd level, when preparing a mutagen, the greenreaver may select one extract (with a non-instantaneous duration) he is capable of creating and gain the benefits of that extract for the duration of the mutagen; this expends the extract. Each time he creates a new mutagen, he may enhance it with a different extract.
This replaces poison use.
Swift Alchemy (Ex): At 3rd level, a greenreaver can create alchemical items with astounding speed. It takes him half the normal amount of time to create alchemical items. He can brew a mutagen in 10 minutes.
This alters the standard alchemist’s swift alchemy ability.
Improved Mutagen (Su): At 6th level, a greenreaver can create a mutagen in 1 minute. In addition, he can have a number of active mutagens equal to half his Intelligence modifier (minimum 1). This does not allow him to gain the effects of multiple mutagens—only the most recently imbibed mutagen has any effect.
This replaces swift poisoning.
Instant Alchemy (Ex): At 18th level, a greenreaver can create alchemical items with almost supernatural speed. He can create any alchemical item as a full-round action if he succeeds at the Craft (alchemy) check and has the appropriate resources at hand to fund the creation. He can also create a mutagen as a full-round action.
This alters the instant alchemy ability.
Discoveries: The following discoveries complement the greenreaver archetype: Chameleon, Grand Mutagen, Greater Mutagen, Mummification, Preserve Organs, Spontaneous Healing, Tentacle, Tumor Familiar, Vestigial Arm, and Wings.
Thanks P33J, glad to know I brought the awesome. Too bad I didn't bring the awesome round 1.
Speaking of tearing appart archetypes, Cheapy, Solspiral, HeadKase, Jacob and others would you mind providing criticism for mine?
I had originally planned to since I love Numeria, but it was three or four archetypes down in my queue. But I believe SmiloDan's just jumped to the front of that list... heheheh...
Thanks P33J, glad to know I brought the awesome. Too bad I didn't bring the awesome round 1.
Speaking of tearing appart archetypes, Cheapy, Solspiral, HeadKase, Jacob and others would you mind providing criticism for mine?
Going to work through them as they were posted...I'll get to yours I promise!! (Also gotta get through those items!)
Been hectic at work and home the few days.
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I'll also get to them as I can. I'm working on a surprise party for my girlfriend's 30th so I may be a bit distracted this week, but I'm excited to look at the rest.
I'm actually really looking forward to looking closely at yours, Archomedes, as I did something fairly similar as one of my alternates (though I'm holding onto that one to see if I can't use it somewhere else).
RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9
aka JoelF847
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My archetype I would have submitted - it would certainly been lost in the crowd as both a ranger and a river freedom themed option.
River Freedom Protector (Ranger)
The six River Freedoms define personal rights in the River Kingdoms. River freedom protectors ensure that these rights aren't trampled by tyrants, and take steps to deal with those who abuse them.
Class Skills: A river freedom protector gains Knowledge (local) as a class skill and does not gain Knowledge (dungeoneering) as a class skill.
You Have What You Hold (Ex): A river freedom protector gains a +2 competence bonus on Perception checks to notice Slight of Hand attempts to steal items, and a +2 competence bonus to CMD against the Steal combat maneuver. This ability replaces wild empathy.
Slavery is an Abomination (Ex): At 3rd level, a river freedom protector gains a +4 competence bonus to saving throws against compulsion effects. He applies his highest favored enemy bonus for the remainder of the encounter against enemies using compulsion effects or slave owners. This ability replaces the ranger's 1st favored terrain.
Say What You Will (Su): At 8th level, a river freedom protector is immune to magical silence. He applies his highest favored enemy bonus for the remainder of the encounter against enemies using effects that creates magical silence. This ability replaces the ranger's 2nd favored terrain.
Walk Any Road (Su): At 13th level, a river freedom protector's Woodland Stride ability applies to enchanted or magically manipulated effects. He applies his highest favored enemy bonus for the remainder of the encounter against enemies using effects that create magical undergrowth or barriers. This ability replaces the ranger's 3rd favored terrain.
Oathbreakers Die (Su): At 16th level, a river freedom protector can discern lies as if he was concentrating with the spell, automatically as a free action anytime he hears a creature make and oath, vow or promise. If the creature is lying, the river freedom protector applies his highest favored enemy bonus against the creature, and may denote them as his quarry, as an immediate action. The save DC is equal to 10 + ½ your ranger level + your Wisdom modifier. This ability replaces improved evasion.
Courts Are for Kings (Ex): At 18th level, a river freedom protector applies his highest favored enemy bonus to lawful outsiders. This ability replaces the ranger's 4nd favored terrain.
Here is what I cooked up. It was first tied to some Mythic Adventures Playtest stuff, so I changed a few things as that wouldn't work for the rules.
I tried to spin the Inquisitor class from hunting to finding...
Dredger (Inquisitor)
Some inquisitors forgo their duty to quarry heretics and instead focus on finding those strong in field and faith to further their faith's hold in the River Kingdoms. The dredger’s unswerving efforts for their faith find heroes in the miasmic River Kingdoms. Among the false kings and bandit princes, few shine brightly enough to attract the favor of the divine; so as independent agents of divine will, dredgers seek talent, allying themselves with convenient principalities and keeping up on local goings-on, always ready to meet new adventurers and tackle deadly monsters in the River Kingdoms. Their ultimate calling is to bring a paragon to their faith, be it a found ally or the inquisitor herself. Dredgers gain their namesake for their willingness to test foes in the field, or simply drag them off the slag-heap or barroom floor. Dredgers know heroics.
Class skills: A Dredger adds Knowledge (Local) to her class skills.
Armor Proficiency: Dredgers are only proficient with Light Armor and Light Shields.
Divine Blessing (su)-At 1st level, A Dredger is blessed with permanent resistance.
Fervor (su or -ex?) At 3rd level, Dredgers find themselves in the divine tapestry. They choose a second domain from their patron, and receive access to these domain spells (retroactively) as if they were a cleric using their inquisitor level. This ability replaces Solo Tactics.
Rally (ex) At 5th level, a Dredger calls upon her faith to assist her allies. Once per day, she can grant any ally within 30’ her Wisdom bonus to any d20 roll as a swift action. Rally’s duration is rounds/level equal to the total levels of Inquisitor the Dredger possesses. A dredger can only Rally one ally at a time. She can end a rally as a swift action. This replaces Discern Lies.
Divine Rush (su) At 14th level, faith urges you forward, and a dredger gains the Judgment Surge feat. This replaces Exploit Weakness.
Paragon At 20th level, your faith is paramount. You gain Perfect Self and Timeless Body (ex) as per the monk and druid class, respectively. You also gain DR 10/-.
Outsea Aquanaut- as i'm sure you've seen, there were a lot of heavily water themed archetypes this year... for me, this one probably would have been lost in the crowd. the mechanics seem pretty sound but you're really kind of pigeonholing this alchemist into only being useful in a campaign set mostly in the water by making both of their combat options less useful on land. the hard water tree is interesting but i'm not sure what it accomplishes... you make yourself a fishbowl (full of 'soft water') and move it around the dungeon?
Backwater Builder- i'm always a bit skeptical when classes are built around alcohol or drugs, so your opening sentence sort of started me off with a bad impression. as for mechanics, having the craft skill as a class skill means you can take any craft (you don't need to add craft[brewing] as a separate skill). in jury-rigger, the bonuses to engineering are fine (though boring) but reducing the cost by 20% is way too much; that would allow the builder to make 100g per day in between adventures (by paying 400g for materials to craft a 1,000g item, which he could then sell for 500g...), and actually with the traits hedge wizard and favored son[tavern owner] you'd make 175g per day- so, every time you have 4 days of down time the builder makes enough cash to make himself and almost 2,000g item? good thing he has to wait til 1st level to get that ability... (sorry- the sarcasm may have been a bit too much. i think you see the issue though) crackerjack creator seems more balanced since the price reduction comes with consequences, i don't like the name though (are there crackerjacks in golarion?)
Unknown Knight- i like the idea of the exiled/dishonored knight trying to prove himself; i think you could have done a little more to tie it to the RK though (and the first paragraph obviously need some rewriting). the mechanics seem good for the most part. i'm not as familiar with cavaliers as i am with most classes, so i'm not positive how covered escutcheon balances compared to banner and greater banner but i really like the idea that they can chose to switch (irrevocably) to the original feature by revealing their identity. i think for ford-holder you should specify whether the ability affects how fast/far you can travel through the mud/water (and for balance sake it probably shouldn't).
Mechanist- i'm really torn on this one... i don't like summoners in the first place (i think they're overpowered without any archetypes), and i tend to be skeptical about mixing technology with fantasy... but i am a sucker for some steampunk. compared to the base summoner, i think this seems pretty balanced... its strange to make a spontaneous caster Int based, but i suppose there's a precedent with the sorcerer's sage wild-bloodline. i'm not sure that an archetype is the appropraite place to introduce a new monster template. as a matter of personal preference, i would not have voted for this, but i think that for what it is it was a good effort.
Ravager
I think you are missing the point of this thread.
regarding the ravager, what he said
Marked Guardian- you definitely swung for the fences... i applaud your risk taking, but in this case i don't think it paid off. if you're granting paladin abilities you should require a good alignment (LG, since monks already need lawful). searing mark is an interesting ability but it should allow a save at any level (not just for teleporting); and does it last for (1d6+1)rounds/4 levels, or 1d6 rounds +1 round/4 levels? either way, get rid of that die roll and set a specific number of rounds (for example- 1 round plus 1 additional round at 3rd level and every 3 levels thereafter). divine disciple is where you really cross into alternate class territory- also, it makes him even more MAD, since as written that casting is Cha. based. sliding step needs to take an immediate action (you can't use swift actions unless it's your turn) and is, IMO, too powerful to trade for high jump. spellbound mark is interesting, but yuo need to state what action is required to activate the mark (and what range the target needs to be within, even if its just 'same plane of existance'). mark of the heavens also needs to be an immediate action, but you should state that it is. bane of worlds reads like you kind of tacked it on unfinished... are you adding it to the list of 4th level spells? or giving it as a spell-like ability (and, actually, you neglected to label any of your abilities Ex, Su, or Sp)? is the caster level equal to your class level or your class level -3 (like your actual spells)? what kind of action does it take to use? how often can you use it? again, kudos for the big swing, but this isn't even really an archetype anymore (being, IMO, more of an alternate class) and i don't think there's anyway you could finish it and be under the wordcount (unless you start dropping powers).
well- time for bed. i'll keep chipping away tomorrow (looks like, for now, i only have 6 more to go). if any of you are waiting on requests, i'd love to get as much feedback as possible on my Freeman (Ranger). thanks!
yes this thread is filled with goodies...
Marked Guardian- you definitely swung for the fences... i applaud your risk taking, but in this case i don't think it paid off. if you're granting paladin abilities you should require a good alignment (LG, since monks already need lawful). searing mark is an interesting ability but it should allow a save at any level (not just for teleporting); and does it last for (1d6+1)rounds/4 levels, or 1d6 rounds +1 round/4 levels? either way, get rid of that die roll and set a specific number of rounds (for example- 1 round plus 1 additional round at 3rd level and every 3 levels thereafter). divine disciple is where you really cross into alternate class territory- also, it makes him even more MAD, since as written that casting is Cha. based. sliding step needs to take an immediate action (you can't use swift actions unless it's your turn) and is, IMO, too powerful to trade for high jump. spellbound mark is interesting, but yuo need to state what action is required to activate the mark (and what range the target needs to be within, even if its just 'same plane of existance'). mark of the heavens also needs to be an immediate action, but you should state that it is. bane of worlds reads like you kind of tacked it on unfinished... are you adding it to the list of 4th level spells? or giving it as a spell-like ability (and, actually, you neglected to label any of your abilities Ex, Su, or Sp)? is the caster level equal to your class level or your class level -3 (like your actual spells)? what kind of action does it take to use? how often can you use it? again, kudos for the big swing, but this isn't even really an archetype anymore (being, IMO, more of an alternate class) and i don't think there's anyway you could finish it and be under the wordcount (unless you start dropping powers).
First of all, thanks for the lengthy review. Its true that in the end I'd have to start dropping powers since I'm so close to the word count. There's a lot I yet have to resolve, and I'll get to that following some of your advice as soon as my exams are finished. And as I said, this is a rough draft, as I haven't polished most of the powers, and the wording of some powers is confusing at best. You are correct regarding Bane of Worlds. I was writing that power when I found out that I didn't make it to the top 32, so I kinda half-assed it. Also, as far as alignment goes, I had troubles, because I was designing a archetype for a chaotic aligned region, and didn't want to add anything radical, but now that that's out of the picture I'll make a full class, without the word count limitations, and post it in homebrew subforum, and then I'll hopefully have your critique once more.
As always If anyone has anything to add, I'd be most grateful.
Range War Wrangler- i think this is tight thematic design, maybe a little too wild west for a fantasy world but its clear how everything fits together. i do think you might have a problem with cavaliers all wanting to dip this (not to mention some paladins, nature oracles, even sohei, etc), and honestly i think break broncs is just straight up more powerful than gunslingers dodge. actually- would they have to dip or could they pick that up with amateur gunslinger (cause that would be even more problematic)? in either case, holding on to a grit is actually less cost than spending one... +2 to each would have been plenty (+2 str and dex and +10 move might still be too much for a passive 1st level ability). the rest of it seems pretty well balanced. i think that this is better design work than your oathlorn cavalier (though, i'm not a big gunslinger fan and might have given you the same advice as your friends).
Mistwalker- i think this works better than most of the water themed archetypes in the top 32 (because much of what is gained has at least some use away from lakes/rivers, and some could even see use in a dungeon). i do think you have a bit of power creep here though- water is life replaces a feat (and not that great of one) with a constant 3rd level spell (that functions as an Ex ability, which makes it even better), misty vapors replaces a bonus to tracking checks with a 3rd level spell usable 2/day (too much even with the reduced duration and restriction on flying), "granting automatic surprise"... why does waterfall surge just ignore the rules for surprise? there are clear rules already for surprise, and the bonuses to stealth for being invisible- this would make way more sense, and function better within the rules, if you wrote it up as a special partial chagre action (which is already usable in a surprise round) allowing you to charge through the water, make a 5' jump onto land, and make an appropriate attack- you could even still tack on the +2 hit (does that stack with charging or is it really just the charge bonus?) and +2 initiative, although they may be getting into more power creep. water top dancer might be a fair trade, and i like one with the flow (though it should probably be Sp, and could borrow some inspiration from transport via plant... "can step into any body of fresh water {equal to your size or larger} and pass any distance to a point in the same body of water in a single round, regardless of the distance"). in waterfall surge you need to specify how "assum[ing] a body of fresh water" works- is it as Gaseous Form but usable underwater? is it just making you effectively invisible? does it have any impact on your swim speed? does it function as elemental body II, but you have to choose your actual size (if that's the case, you may have more balance issues)? also, pirate's bane is interesting but the ranger's favored enemy bonus is untyped and so automatically stacks with a circumstance bonus, you don't need to say they stack. all in all, the theme is good and the design around well thought out, you just need to work on your mechanics (though, honestly, the voting masses, and sometimes even the judges, don't seem to care about balance and mechanics so what do i know...)
well, that took longer than expected... more later. actually- i'm spending more time on this than i should be- so i think this is my cut-off point: anything posted before this i'll critique, anything after this post probably not (though, if you really want my feedback you can PM me and i'll try to get to it).
Range War Wrangler- i think this is tight thematic design, maybe a little too wild west for a fantasy world but its clear how everything fits together. i do think you might have a problem with cavaliers all wanting to dip this (not to mention some paladins, nature oracles, even sohei, etc), and honestly i think break broncs is just straight up more powerful than gunslingers dodge. actually- would they have to dip or could they pick that up with amateur gunslinger (cause that would be even more problematic)? in either case, holding on to a grit is actually less cost than spending one... +2 to each would have been plenty (+2 str and dex and +10 move might still be too much for a passive 1st level ability). the rest of it seems pretty well balanced. i think that this is better design work than your oathlorn cavalier (though, i'm not a big gunslinger fan and might have given you the same advice as your friends).
All good points and things I was concerned about too. Maybe the best fix is to have it require spending a grit point and last a minute per gunslinger level (minimum 1) or something like that? This would limit it for dippers and those with the Amateur Gunslinger feat, but still allow it for multiple and more powerful uses by a dedicated gunslinger. Thanks.
I spent a good bit of time working on an clockwork summoner for this. Your changes in summon monster are spot on, but I don't like the change to INT for class features.
I was worried about the construct eidolon being to powerful at lower levels with the construct trait' that's a lot of immunities for lower level. I do like how you use a template to make it a construct, giving it resistance at lower levels to solves that problem .I designed evolutions that added up as the summoner advanced in level. I had very similar end results just a different approach.Other questions are, can it heal like a living creature(ie CLW) or do you need a spell like mend, make whole? What is its weight? A few more that have slipped my mind?
Neidan Alchemist
Seems cool, and like you said borderline alternate class. But more focused archetype of a focused archetype is kind of a cool idea.
Internal Alchemy: So, your extracts are vomited? Or they ONLY effect the Neidan Alchemist? This is kind of making me think of the Mistborn series of books (which I love so isn't necessarily a bad thing).
Breath Weapon: Ahhhh, now I see the reason for internal alchemy. It replaces multiple abilities, but is it gained at 1st like bombs?
Versatile BW: Cool, 14th level though seems kinda high. Especially because you've replaced the lower level abilities with Internal and BW, which in turn replace some of the level progression abilities.
Enlarge BW: Cool again, see the comments for Versatile BW :)
Eschew Materials: I get what you are doing, but I don't think this quite works because of how Alchemy (Internal or otherwise) would work. This really shows how it should be an alternative class.
Discovery: This part I was afraid of. You've narrowed the choices a lot, and with the abilities replaced, there is a large level gap of getting anything cool between levels 2-14.
Overall, I like the idea, but I would need to see your revised and submission ready version before I can say I would vote for it :)
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Candlemere Cultist: Man the description alone would have sold me! At least...as an NPC or BBEG :)
Mistwalker- lots of useful stuff...
Very nice review thanks.
I did wonder about some of the items in here but was struggling with the hard word wall. I think had I been in top 32, I might have dropped the final teleport like ability or merged it with prior ability.
The one thing I cut was swimming to get under the 450, it was there, but decided that the other abilities made up for not having swim speeds and so it got cut.
I had started looking at using elemental body when I found I hadn't made the cut, so it never got integrated.
Looks like I'm heading in the right direction - that's two really positive reviews now :)
Range war Wrangler: I frakin' love the powers here a big part of that is because they aren't making the gunslinger more powerful with firearms which is smart because firearms are plenty powerful. Break bronc is great but needs to be 2nd or 3rd level to avoid dipping issues, you ar forgetting small creaturs that ride medium creatures methinks, not to mention mounting an eldion! Overall this is better than your oathlorn but you're rightly concerned this would not do well in voting b/c of the gunslinger element. At least it would not do well for me its a theme issue I don't like mixing fantasy with guns.
Spirit-Vexed Wanderer
Cool name, cool description, my guess is that you wrote this before the twist and didn't revise until after the Top 32 were announced...and didn't add RK flavor because you didn't make the Top 32?
Class Skills: Seems right that a Spirit-Vexed wouldn't be good at handling animals :)
Sudden Urges: I'm wary of class features that force you to take negatives or force RP a certain way. I'm reserving further comments on this until I read the other powers to see if it meshes with this.
Smell Fear: This is thematic and cool. It's using the pinpoint rules stuff to literally smell those fear things and pinpoint an enemy. Kudos! It's only within 5' which is extremely limited...this would only be good if the barbarian was blind and the enemy suffered from one of those effects. Also, the will save against being detected should be cut. It's odd, puts a lot of work on the GM, and could be jarring to the story, since the enemy would have to KNOW the barbarian has this ability.
Spirit-Wracked Rage: Cool, flavorful and thematic, but again, this is a 2nd ability that concentrates on the negative.
Raised Hackles: Cool and thematic, but is about as interesting as trapfinding is :)
Horrific Contortion: Sweet name, description doesn't follow through on its horrificness. A little fluff here to describe some bending would be great.
Tremble No More: Hmm...cool. But bordering on a Rage Power. I feel Tireless Rage should have been a Rage Power as well, so take that with a grain of salt.
Sudden Urges (part deux): I don't like it. Its thematic, but I don't see why you have this negative ability. It's not a basis for any of the other abilities, and it feels like you have this because you were afraid of this being Over Powered...which it's not. Cut this.
Overall, it's definitely got cool names and a good idea. You basically reskin the existing powers though for some of these abilities. You also border on Rage Power for a couple of your abilities. A little more fluff, and some cutting where appropriate and this would be SOLID.
The Jack
Clever naming, riffing off "Jack of All Trades, Master of None" and the description of Bards already being Jacks of All Trades.
My 2nd idea (which isn't even developed) was a Monk that mirrored their enemies abilities after seeing the ability used.
I feel like with the Jack of All Trades connotation there should be a negative to whatever they are miming, like their CL counts as CL-2 for the purposes of... kind of stuff.
Mimetic Repetition: Cool, and I like that you use the Bard spell and not just copy the spell cast that you are miming. Maybe the negative for this could be Spell Level -1 since you are Master of None.
Inspired Courage: Inspired design choice! Instead of going the obvious weapon proficiency route (or somesuch) you went with a + to the attack rolls if the ally is full BAB. Cool. +1 is already accounting for a negative I think, since a +2 would represent Master of this Trade.
Inspired Competence: Again, Inspired Design Choice! See comments for Inspired Courage :)
Overall, I LOVE this idea. The theme, abilities, and mechanics (as developed as they were at this point) is very cool. I would love to see your final version of this.
Greenreaver (Alchemist)
AM FEELING...LUB? YEA AM FEELING LUB! ME AM LUB GREENREAVER! AM NO AM FELT DIS SINCE AM BARBARIAN!
AM NO FAN OF LOSS OF SOME SKILLTHINGIES, BUT IT AM MAKE SENSE.
AM LIKE GETTINK TWO ZERO TREEHUGGER SPELLS. AM USE DEM TO MAKE GOOD TASTING BRISTLE, MAGIC FANG, LONGSTRIDER, LOCKJAW. AM MAKE AMY STRONG! AM NO USE "brew potion" ANYWAYS.
ANY CLASS AM ABLE DIP AND GETTING ONE....TWO....FOU-THREE! NATURAL ATTACKS WITH DA FEERIAL MOOTAGEN! AM ABLE BE SELECTING 'EXTRA DISCOVERY' AT FIRST LEVEL DUE TO HAVING A DISCOVERY?
SNEAK STABBY BITEY EVERY EACH ROUND! AM JOYOUS! AM FRABJUOUS! AM NO LONGER DO TRICKSY THINGS AND AM GET SNEAK STABBY BITEY DAMAGE ALWAYS ALL THE TIME! AM ALWAYS HITTING WITH DA BITEY CLAWY, AM ALWAYS GETTING BEEG DAMAGE! AM NOT HAVE TO FLANKY OR USE JUICE OF GREATER NO-SEE-AMY. AM GETTING LESS DAMAGE DAN SNEAKYSTABBYBITEY BUT AM DOING MORE OFTEN MORE EASILY. AM SAD THAT IT'S ONLY ONCE PER ROUND. AM CAN NOW PREBUFF WITH YUMMY TREEHUGGER POTIONS INSTEAD OF AM USING JUICE OF GREATER NO-SEE-AMY.
AM GETTING LEBEL ONE SIX ABILITY AT LEVEL ZERO TWO? AND BETTER THAN STINKY ONE SIX TH LEBEL ABILITY? AM LOVE GREENREAVER! AM HUG IT FOREVER! IT REPLACE UNUSED ABILITY! AM HAPPY!
AM ABLE MAKE HAPPYROIDYSMASHY JUICE FASTAH? NO MORE HOUR SPENT POKING CHEMEEKALS? ABILITY AM LOWER MAIN BALANCING FACTOR?
AM GETTING FASTER AND MORE??? AM NEVER GO WITHOUT HAPPYROIDYSMASHY JUICE! AM DANCE!
AM MAKE HAPPYROIDYSMASHY JUICE IN SIX SECONDS! AM JUST SQUEEZE IT OUT? WHERE AM SQUEEZE IT OUT? AM SQUEEZE BADDIES AND AM GET HAPPYROIDYSMASHY JUICE? AM SUPER NEVER BE WITHOUT HAPPYROIDYSMASHY JUICE NOW!
ME AM LUB YOU GREENREAVER!
YOU AM MAKE MOST FEARSOME ABILITY OF ALCHY MORE BETTER STRONGER FASTER. AM HARDER TO BEAT AND AM GET RID OF NO USEFUL ABILITIES FOR TEH AWESOME.
thanks for the love, headkase!
I do want to work on this further, though I'm not sure if I want to go full alternate class, or to-the-wordcount archetype.
More serious review to follow.
thanks for the love, headkase!
I do want to work on this further, though I'm not sure if I want to go full alternate class, or to-the-wordcount archetype.
Do BOTH!!!!
Seriously...do both. I want to see what you come up with for Wordcount and for an Alternate.
AM FEELING...LUB? YEA AM FEELING LUB! ME AM LUB GREENREAVER! AM NO AM FELT DIS SINCE AM BARBARIAN!
ME AM BE IN LUV!
As far as the Backwater Builder is concerned, thanks for the feedback. I could have done without the sarcasm but the review itself was still helpful and I thank you for your time and effort.
Not super excited about the name. Especially if you were going for an RK feel, I don’t think that quite brings it.
You’ve got a typo in the class skills line.
Quick Draw seems to be added to make up for losing the heavy armor proficiency, which seems like a poor trade off. Sure, Quick Draw’s a useful feat, but a fighter can pull his weapon as part of a move action at first level. And they already get so many feats that adding one more doesn’t really excite me.
I like the idea of the hilt first power, but I’m also not quite what it has to do with a thrower. And I guess truthfully, I feel the same about shield catch and all in the reflexes. Maybe it’s the name here that’s throwing me (pun … um, sort of intended?).
That said, it feels like a lot of this archetype is based on feats, which I don’t know is a great choice for a fighter. I think they get enough of them already. And even those that aren’t seem odd to me … why do I need to hold a bunch of thrown weapons on my shield – most aren’t going to have returning and the weapon my personal weapon is probably better than anything I could grab off it? (Though if I want to use this, I have to make sure my shield’s made of wood.)
Unfortunately, I just don’t think this one really works for me, unless there’s something I’m missing. Sorry.
Judges weren’t crazy about drugs with the Awakened, but that doesn’t really worry me as much. Certainly something I’d think about if I were submitting for Paizo, though.
That said, I like alchemist’s vermillion. Shedding light is a neat ability, and the concealment aspect is a good mechanic to play with. The faerie fire effect also seems cool to me.
Hmm. Scornful blast is also interesting. I think I like the effect, though not necessarily your mechanics. You seem to be using sunder (which I think is just for weapons) for any object you’re attacking? It’s not quite clear to me. Can I target any object or just a weapon/item someone’s holding? Also, I don’t think the parenthetical works. I think you’d need a separate line saying at 18th level, the aesthete gets swift alchemy. This replaces instant alchemy…
Entrancing bomb also seems neat, though it feels more like a discovery to me than a power on its own.
OK, that’s all of Page 1 done now. Back to work now.
hey everyone- thanks for taking these critiques as they were intended (as an attempt to be helpful). as cheapy says, "Praise is great, but criticism is useful."
Freeman- this one is perfect, hands down the single best archetype ever devised. of course, i might not be entirely objective on this one...
Uncrowned King- i like this better than your witch, and i don't say that lightly because i'm always very skeptical when people mess with the paladin's code. i like that you got rid of smite, and (for the most part) i like what you replaced it with. i think it would have been better if you'd been more specific about using the domain powers, though... can she use the same power more than once per day? what if it's normally only usable once per day? i suspect some of this has to do with wordcount. honestly, i think you should have dropped some of the other changes (like first follower, which seemed unnecessary to me) to free up words. you should maybe have the power allow them to pick one domain and just gain all the domain powers as normal (sort of like the inquisitor ability), but requiring the symbol as a divine focus. i really like how you worked divine bond. royal decree is probably too powerful but its hard to compare it fairly since gaining no power at all at 20th level is better than the actual paladin capstone.
Greenreaver- this is an interesting archetype- it looks like you may need some work on your balance though. bestial mojo isn't too bad but seems clearly better than brew potion. rend, as written, could affect any number of enemies (especially if paired with the rending fury feat) and might be really abused by a multi-class synthesist (or any other class that accumulates multiple natural attacks). enhanced mutagen is way overpowered as well- you could be hastened, or (improvedly) invisible the entire 10 minutes/level!?! improved mutagen isn't bad but avoiding the phrase "a number of active mutagens" would alleviate some of the confusion addressed in the sentence that follows it (it seems clear now, but i had to read the two sentences more than once to get what you were saying).
River Freedom Protector- well, its an extra good thing that we didn't both make the top 32 this year... (if you haven't checked out my Freeman ranger archetype near the bottom of page 2, you should). so, i like your theme and appreciate the difficulty of changing six powers within the wordcount. i think you stayed on theme pretty well (and its interesting how little overlap our powers had), though (also like me) you may have played it a bit too safe. aside from the safety thing, my only complaint here is that i don't care for the "applies his highest favored enemy bonus for the remainder of the encounter against enemies using..." mechanic- it feels like you really wanted to/should have changed the favored enemy ability but were afraid to (or ran out of wordcount?)
Dredger- this one feels unfinished to me. what is divine blessing replacing? fervor is better defined, but is a bit too powerful (it should also replace the bonus teamwork feats, and even then it would be a very favorable swap). rally needs clarification... is it every time they make that type of d20 through the duration, or is it one roll that they choose to use it on within the duration? whatever the case, you need to explain it better in the entry. paragon is clearly an issue- you can't just give out a 20th level power and a 15th level power and twice the DR/- that a barbarian earns over 20 levels all as one capstone, even if you were replacing a capstone (which you apparently aren't, since there is no indication anywhere that this power replaces another one).
well, that's it for me :)
i'm really looking forward to hearing some more feedback when some of you have enough time to get to mine! i hope everyone finds something useful in these.
Thanks for the feedback everyone!
I was originally going to make Rend be Rending Claws, and only work with the claws gained from the Feral Mutagen discovery, but I thought I would run out of words. I thought they might be abused a bit with multi-classing, but never thought of the synthesist. YIKES!!!
Enhance Mutagen is kind of inspired by the Eternal Potion discovery, but obviously turned out to be a whole lot more powerful. Maybe if it was limited to spells with a duration of at least 1 minute per level? I'm not THAT concerned about about a 7th level PC with permanent haste, especially one with a 3/4 BAB; it's just some extra speed or an extra attack. A 10th level PC with permanent greater invisiblity would be kind of annoying.
I'm not concerned about the greenreaver pretty much having a mutagen always available. It's similar to a barbarian's rage, but with 3/4 BAB and 2/3 the hit points!
A lot of the Improved Mutagen verbiage comes from the Infuse Mutagen discovery.
A belated thanks for additional feedback to the Warlord, hope to get up a revision later.
@dan- a 4 level dip in synthesist (with a quadruped eidolon) would give you a bite, let you pick up pounce, and leave you with 6 more evolution points to pick up 1 more attack, and potentially buff the ones you have. maybe even worse- a half-orc can start with a bite, if they dipped 2 levels of barbarian they could pick up lesser fiend totem to add a gore... that would give them 4 natural attacks per round- all of which get rend damage (with rending fury feat), all go off at full BAB, and he can stack rage and Str mutagen with his high starting Str (not to mention eventually being able to tack on Bull's Strength @6th, for the entire duration of the mutagen at 8th...). it is a cool idea- just needs some work to get it balanced. (on an unrelated note, were you the other western new yorker from last year's top 32?)
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Dedicated Voter Season 9
aka Arkos
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After not even wanting to get my item critiqued, I'm back to check in on the archetype at least! This was my plan to make a cleric focused on small-scale warfare instead of a party. I'd hoped to find some flavor to tie it more strongly to the RK, hopefully by a kingdom which was more warlike than the others. Oh well! It's also highly mechanical, so I expect it doesn't quite have the zing we're looking for in RPGSS.
Kolsson Warleader (Cleric)
War is no stranger to the River Kingdoms, nor are those who would take advantage of the continual chaos in the land. For centuries, the Kolsson Academy has trained martial clerics in the ways of battle as set down by Kols Oath-Keeper, dwarven god of duty. These fabled warleaders then sell their services as officers and bannerman to any ruler that can afford to hire them. Though Kols is the official patron of the Academy, Kolsson warleaders are just as often followers of Abadar or even Dispater.
Domain: A Kolsson warleader must choose the Nobility domain. If the Kolsson warleader worships a deity, that deity must be one that grants the Nobility domain. The Kolsson warleader automatically gains the Leadership subdomain, even if her deity would not otherwise allow it.
Diminished Spellcasting: A Kolsson warleader gains one fewer spell of each level than normal. If this reduces the number to 0, she may cast spells of that level only if they are domain spells or if her Wisdom allows bonus spells of that level.
Inspired Tactics (Ex): At 1st level, whenever a Kolsson warleader uses an ability or spell that gives an insight or morale bonus to attack and damage, she may instead apply this to AC and CMD, respectively. A Kolsson warleader must make this choice when the insight or morale bonus is first granted and may not change it during the duration of the ability.
When a Kolsson warleader uses inspiring command with inspired tactics, the bonuses stack.
Battle Cry (Su): At 3rd level, whenever a Kolsson warleader uses inspiring command, she may choose to instead make it a battle cry. Rather than only affecting one ally within a 30' radius, plus one additional ally for every three cleric levels, a battle cry affects 6 HD of allies, all of whom must be able to hear the Kolsson warleader.
At 6th level, a Kolsson warleader's battle cry affects 18 HD of allies.
At 9th level, a Kolsson warleader's battle cry affects 36 HD of allies.
Conflict Channel (Su): At 8th level, when a Kolsson warleader channels energy, she may choose to only affect a number of targets equal to her cleric level. When using conflict channel, the Kolsson warleader reduces the number of dice she uses to channel energy by one. This granted power replaces the leadership power of the Nobility domain.
Improved Inspiring Command (Ex): At 10th level, a Kolsson warleader may use inspiring command or battle cry as a move action, and the insight bonus granted increases from +2 to +4. This bonus increases to +6 at 20th level.
Gunner
First...not sure if I like the name or not. I want to like it, but it just doesn't seem...something.
Class Skills: Makes sense
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Again, makes sense.
So the proficiency replaces Throw Anything? Interesting idea...not sure how I feel about it. Wouldn't the gunner still want to be able to chuck grenades?
Gunsmithing: Makes sense, but you're starting to become sensible and a little not Superstar.
Alchemical Munitions: Ah now I see why you replace Throw Anything. This...confuses me a bit. I understand that Int is the Alchemist primary stat but it seems weird to add that as a bonus to his firearm damage. Also, why in your example does the enemy take acid damage 1 round later? Is it rolling in Delayed Bombs? Are siege weapons considered firearms? I'm not as familiar with this area...
Rapid Reload: He's faster, but is it a swift? Free? Immediate?
Capsule Munitions: I feel like this should have switched places with Alchemical Munitions.
Fill the Barrel: Soooo not a fair trade for Swift Poisoning. I'm starting to question what if they decide not to use a blunderbuss?
Hurtling Blast: Cool, but wouldn't it be more of a fit to knock them prone? This will also not scale well at higher levels. Creatures will get obscene CMD's pretty quickly after 10th.
Overall, I like the idea here. I'm not quite sold on the abilities as written. Alchemical and Capsule Munitions seem like they could just be level scaling abilities in 1 ability. Fill the Barrel isn't quite balanced, and mainly...what happens if they don't use a blunderbuss?
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9
aka JoelF847
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River Freedom Protector- well, its an extra good thing that we didn't both make the top 32 this year... (if you haven't checked out my Freeman ranger archetype near the bottom of page 2, you should). so, i like your theme and appreciate the difficulty of changing six powers within the wordcount. i think you stayed on theme pretty well (and its interesting how little overlap our powers had), though (also like me) you may have played it a bit too safe. aside from the safety thing, my only complaint here is that i don't care for the "applies his highest favored enemy bonus for the remainder of the encounter against enemies using..." mechanic- it feels like you really wanted to/should have changed the favored enemy ability but were afraid to (or ran out of wordcount?)
Thanks for the comments - great minds think alike! And I thought I was so innovative - only to see so many that used the river freedoms theme. It's certainly amusing how similar ours were while still having the specifics be different. I agree that in hindsight, it was too safe - it was a great RK fit, but the actual mechanics weren't particularly innovative.
As for the applies his favorite enemy bonus, I specfically didn't want to swap out commone favorite enemies like aberations, demons, giants, humans, etc, with these pretty narrow ones like slavers, those who use silence magic, etc. since that would be a major power down - not too many foes qualify to any of them.
As for your Freeman, I think you summed it up pretty well with your comments on mine - way to involve all 6 river freedoms, but all in all, probably both too safe, and not as innovative as we both though when writing our archetypes - competant, but not superstar.
@dan- a 4 level dip in synthesist (with a quadruped eidolon) would give you a bite, let you pick up pounce, and leave you with 6 more evolution points to pick up 1 more attack, and potentially buff the ones you have. maybe even worse- a half-orc can start with a bite, if they dipped 2 levels of barbarian they could pick up lesser fiend totem to add a gore... that would give them 4 natural attacks per round- all of which get rend damage (with rending fury feat), all go off at full BAB, and he can stack rage and Str mutagen with his high starting Str (not to mention eventually being able to tack on Bull's Strength @6th, for the entire duration of the mutagen at 8th...). it is a cool idea- just needs some work to get it balanced. (on an unrelated note, were you the other western new yorker from last year's top 32?)
Wow! That a lot of smackdown! Definitely need to work on the balance.
Yup, I'm in Buffalo. You too?
yeah (well, technically no- i moved out to Grand Island last year). hope you didn't get hit too hard by the snow yesterday.
Rochester, NY here. Neat we're all pretty close.
I went to undergrad in Rochester. My sister still lives near there.
:-)
The snow wasn't that horrible, but my car got iced shut and it took me 5 minutes to scrape it open with my keys after work last night!
:-O