Playing against myself


Advice


I'm a better optimizer than my players in the campaign.

One of the players came to ask my help with how to build a dex based character, I helped him out (well, technically I showed him an Aldori Swordlord guide and helped out a little).

That character rocked in combat compared to the others, and after a recent near TPK (incited by said optimized character betraying the party during a fight with a strong caster, but it's a neutral campaign and the character had been going evil, so to be expected and no hard feelings, the players had fun quoting "Curse your sudden, but inevitable betrayal"), everyone who died is asking me to design the crunch for each of their new characters, just giving me the concepts.

For example, one wants a sword-caster (getting a magus), another wants a darth maul-weapon style Paladin Ninja, and the last wants a guy who transforms into mechanical monsters (refluffing the druid earth element wild shapes is my current tack, though if anyone else has better advice for that, it'd be nice).

Is this a bad thing? I'm a bit worried about the one remaining character who doesn't have me optimizing them, especially seeing that character's main saving grace was providing really awesome but weirdly specific buffs to a character who is no longer alive, and is barely cohort worthy at anything else.


Where is the GM in all of this? Or are you the GM?


I am the GM. Thus, why if I'm creating all the encounters and designing the players character, and generally they ask me what they can do in combat, as they're shaky on the rules, as far as combat goes, I'm playing against myself with chess pieces that occasionally move unexpectedly.

Silver Crusade

Players shouldn't have to optimize for combat to be successful in Pathfinder unless the GM has made it clear role-playing is secondary. It's fine to offer advice when solicited to get other players started on the right path (I'd let them figure it out on their own after 1st level, though), but I'd stay away from any criticism or worries about a player who isn't taking the best feats or spells. As long as they contribute to the merriment of the group on any given day, they're doing their job.


Yeah, I think you need to stop playing with yourself and spend some time with all your players in order to help them understand Pathfinder and your specific campaign game a bit better.

Give them an idea of possible directions for characters in your campaign but doing all the design stuff yourself seems wrong, both for their fun and your own GMishness.


Yeah, I think the best general idea is basically if they want more optimized characters then teach them about the process instead of doing it yourself. That way, everyone gets what they want, but won't require as much assistance in the future. After all, just because someone isn't good at optimizing doesn't mean they can't learn!

As far as the character turning into mechanical monsters, you could also go with a Synthesist Summoner, or a re-fluffed Alchemist Feral Mutagen :)


Synthesist Summoner.. I'm not sure I want THAT optimized. :P

~~

So, it might be good to say, advise like this.

"Well, you'll want to make sure you use multiples of 4 in your levels to maximize BaB, so like, Druid 8/Monk 4, and combining Shaping Focus, Powerful Build, Tetori Monk, and Greater Grapple will make you a grapplemonster with the best of 'em. Maximize your physical stats and Wis."

And then let them round out the rest of their build themselves?


To give you another point of view, I think you are fine helping to optimize your players' characters. Many players want to do better but don't know the tricks to optimize. I find reading and learning about optimization helps me continue to learn the vast amount of rules. If the players are asking, I would help them as much as you did with your duelist. They might be disappointed if you give them less.

As for your last player, don't worry too much but carefully listen to them. They may not care about optimization and instead just enjoy role-playing or following the group. Those types do exist. Or they might be quiet or slower to react to optimization. In that case, listen for when they are ready.

As for playing with yourself, enjoy it. Your players own their concepts and actions. The game is supposed to be collaborative anyway, so everyone has fun.

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