Awesome fantasy Cartoon


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Grand Lodge

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This is how I feel when I play RPG's

Awesome Cartoon

Liberty's Edge

One of my players posted this on our group's Facebook page before the weekend and we were talking about it at each game, everyone thought it was a real labor of love to make that!


Thank you. This was beautiful.

Silver Crusade

Dottin.

Sovereign Court

Awesome! Getting ready to start the Kingmaker AP and this just got me even more psyched. Forwarded it to the other folks who are playing and the GM.

Silver Crusade

Interesting, for sure. I kinda saw the ending coming, though. Stupid brain...keeping me from surprises!

Sovereign Court

You did watch it through the credits, right? ;)

Silver Crusade

Yeah. Still... :/

(Whining bit: I wanna be surprised by a movie. Even the horror films don't scare me because they're obvious. Waaah.)

The Exchange

Lordzum wrote:

This is how I feel when I play RPG's

Awesome Cartoon

Awesome...

Sczarni

Gotta watch this later...

Dark Archive

WATCH IT NOW


Brilliant!


That was fun.


~sigh~
Sexist...
It would have stood fine if they had portrayed women as something other than sex objects.
:(

Shadow Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

...


Aranna wrote:

~sigh~

Sexist...
It would have stood fine if they had portrayed women as something other than sex objects.
:(

I don't disagree, but it was certainly worth watching the once, just to have seen it.

The Exchange

Aranna wrote:

~sigh~

Sexist...
It would have stood fine if they had portrayed women as something other than sex objects.
:(

Yeah...Hot Warrior Women carrying off men...like that ever happens. :(

I loved the bit where they were hacking their way through the forest and it zooms back and they are chopping down some giant creatures taller than the forest - and probably the last of their kind.


Aranna wrote:

~sigh~

Sexist...
It would have stood fine if they had portrayed women as something other than sex objects.
:(

There is also that. Fun nonetheless.


Aranna wrote:

~sigh~

Sexist...
It would have stood fine if they had portrayed women as something other than sex objects.
:(

Someone I love feels very much the same way. I ask you the same question I asked her- did you miss the fight with the bandits where the only one who did any damage was the woman who stole the map and cut off the fighterdude's fingers?

Shadow Lodge

2 people marked this as a favorite.

...Sexist... Can't we just enjoy something for what it is? Come on, it was classic, I loved it. It reminded me of all the sword and sorcery stories that got me into RPGs. Besides it was all of 9 minutes long, you were expecting some mind blowing world altering revelation from an art students project.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Rather than calling it "sexist" I would say that it gleefully embraces a lot of the standard fantasy tropes involving women, but not in an ignorant way. I was impressed, for example, that the brief shot of the barbarian tribeswomen featured an archer with one breast cut off, as the amazons were said to do.

The general use of women in this film seems closer to being distractions from the quest. The goofy mage is easily drawn away by female company, the warrior is nearly undone by some kind of mer-creature, etc. Given that a main theme of the film seems to be the development of a super-strong bro-relationship, it's easy to see why women are presented the way they are.

I'm not saying it's perfect, but I am saying that I think this was a deliberate choice on the part of the creators, and a choice that was not made merely because they think women fit those roles. I think they made that choice because it fit the kind of story they were trying to make.


3 people marked this as a favorite.

Ok... first scene shows a girl run off with the fancy older hero after turning her nose up at the lecherous younger man. Was it necessary to give a panty shot of the girl as she mounts the horse? No. It would still fit the story without the sexist panty shot.

Next they steal arms from a boy and girl who are too busy having sex to notice... a bit of bad comedy perhaps? Not directly sexist but still not saying very nice things about the girl or her boyfriend.

Next we see a trio of armed women flirting with the two boys, an amorous water monster, and the town where the lecherous one is getting drunk with three random girls...

He shows off the map and this gets a slutty dressed thief after him. He loses his half without even noticing and then she goes after the serious one with her friends and gets killed.

The next girl is being rescued by the two. We then see them making out with three more girls. And they kill another girl monster...

At the ending two girls are eager to go running off with the pair.

Now ask yourself since the reward was obviously the fact that they grew into successful heroes, was it really necessary to have every women in the story be a sex object? EVERY woman except the one that was only a giant head was a sex object. Whether it was the village girls, the adventuring girls, the rescuees, the city girls, OR the thief. Even one of the two female monsters was painted as a sex lure.

I can see the stupid decision of the girl in the opening scene as part of the initial motivation these two share... BUT all through the story? NOT just where it would be appropriate but all through the story? Yes I still feel it is sexist.

PS: The fighter had three wounds after his battle with the thief's gang: The nose bleed from the monk's kick, the chest wound from the goblin wizard's spell, and the lost fingers from the thief herself. Not that it matters...

Silver Crusade

After finally getting to watch it, yeah. Could have easily have avoided that and it would have been perfect.


I'm sorry you feel that way. I think it's perfect the way it is.

Silver Crusade

Yeah, it was a male fantasy for sure.

Here's the thing, though: I realize from playing through quite a few APs and reading some of the Pathfinder supplemental materials that this isn't the way Paizo operates. (It's also not the way of most of the fanboys and fangirls that are devoted in some way to this RPG.) For this I am eternally grateful.

And it's ***way*** better than it was even in the late 1980's!

(Imagine if you will being a barely teenaged girl during the heyday of bimbo barbarian art. When none of the miniatures of lady adventurers had armor that would be functional, much less clothing that would be practical. And most guys who'd played for more than a few minutes being sexist around the table. Ugh. Dude, I lived through that.)

I'm happy things are getting better. Not every female mini appears to only shop for armor at Fredericks of Cheliax anymore, thankfully! And the art is getting better generally. I really believe it was Paizo that lead the way.

What I liked about this movie, regardless of its fairly sexist nature:
It had heart. The would-be heroes had me rooting for them in their darkest moment.

Silver Crusade

Freehold DM wrote:
I'm sorry you feel that way. I think it's perfect the way it is.

Don't be, it just bugged me is all. :)

Like Nymian said, it had heart, and that still came across.


Nymian Harthing wrote:

And it's ***way*** better than it was even in the late 1980's!

(Imagine if you will being a barely teenaged girl during the heyday of bimbo barbarian art. When none of the miniatures of lady adventurers had armor that would be functional, much less clothing that would be practical. And most guys who'd played for more than a few minutes being sexist around the table. Ugh. Dude, I lived through that.)

I'm happy things are getting better. Not every female mini appears to only shop for armor at Fredericks of Cheliax anymore, thankfully! And the art is getting better generally. I really believe it was Paizo that lead the way.

As a guy gamer in the late 80s, I always preferred when there were girls at the table. It cut down on the locker room atmosphere.

This was mostly in college though. Maybe we'd gotten a little more mature. Might have helped that one of the women was one of the best GMs too. Can't be too sexist when she can sic the Wandering Damage Table on you.

And we all laughed at the miniatures. I remember one particular female dragonrider. We couldn't do anything but crack jokes about chafing.
For some reason, we didn't actually use miniatures a lot.


Nymian is right about the movie (it had heart)... I wasn't gaming in the 80s so I have to take his word on that part. But it was a good movie ... just sadly sexist. It didn't have to be sexist, the story would have worked without it.

Silver Crusade

I agree that there was a sexist air to it. I also agree it didn't have to be so sexist in order to work.

It's sad gender equality hasn't happened yet, either. But all we can do is keep working on it with our fellow human beings. It always seemed to go better in a discussion if I could state why sexism and misogynist views bothered me, and I stated a passionate but logical argument as to why. That was hard to do when I was fourteen and objecting to an older male gamer's fantasy viewpoint.

To derail a bit further: recently at Paizocon I experienced female-to-female hostility due to the insecurities of one lady and the naivete of the other. It bothered me a lot. It also engendered much discussion and soul searching as I brought it up at various pre-event conversations. Why are female gamers often so hostile to one another? Did I cause this particular instance? What could I have done differently?

(Horse may be dead; kicking it to be sure.)


Nymian Harthing wrote:

To derail a bit further: recently at Paizocon I experienced female-to-female hostility due to the insecurities of one lady and the naivete of the other. It bothered me a lot. It also engendered much discussion and soul searching as I brought it up at various pre-event conversations. Why are female gamers often so hostile to one another? Did I cause this particular instance? What could I have done differently?

(Horse may be dead; kicking it to be sure.)

I'd be interested to hear the details about this - I read all kinds of horror stories on the web that are completely removed from my own frame of reference, at times I feel like I must be participating in a completely different hobby from most others.


Aranna wrote:

~sigh~

Sexist...
It would have stood fine if they had portrayed women as something other than sex objects.
:(

seriously, why do you have to bring sexism into it. this short portrays two down-on-their luck guys hoping to strike it rich and get fame, money, and you guessed it, women to like them. And I distinctly remember the leader of the gang being distinctly female, and hardly sexual.

would you rather have a short portrayed the exact same way with two females as the center roles?

It doesnt always have to be about sex, equality and superiority. It's a story, enjoy it.


  • Violence
  • Humour
  • Two guys sharing a bedroll
  • Blatant sexism
  • Warmth
  • Generativity
  • Nudity

Me likes, thanks so much for sharing it!


4 people marked this as a favorite.
Aranna wrote:
Ok... first scene shows a girl run off with the fancy older hero after turning her nose up at the lecherous younger man. Was it necessary to give a panty shot of the girl as she mounts the horse? No. It would still fit the story without the sexist panty shot.

A point that I might quibble about here - I don't see "sexualization" as necessarily being sexist (see below).

Quote:


Next they steal arms from a boy and girl who are too busy having sex to notice... a bit of bad comedy perhaps? Not directly sexist but still not saying very nice things about the girl or her boyfriend.

One might note (as someone earlier did, I think) that the woman is, by implication, an adventurer (since she presumably owns either the sword or the staff).

I'm not entirely sure what "not very nice things" are being said about the two adventurers in the bushes. Is it somehow rude to show someone enjoying sex? Or is it an insult to suggest that the act of lovemaking leaves them distracted? I fail to see what's remotely sexist (or in any way insulting) about this particular scene.

Quote:


Next we see a trio of armed women flirting with the two boys, an amorous water monster, and the town where the lecherous one is getting drunk with three random girls...

The armed women are amazons, as the severed breast indicates. That particular detail impressed me as anything but sexist, as one-breasted women are not generally considered suitable sex objects. The female water monster who lures men into danger is a common fantasy trope (selkies, mermaids, sirens, etc.) And the lecherous one... well, as you note, he is lecherous, i.e. a defining character trait of his is that he gets distracted by women and views them as sexual objects. That's a character issue, not an author issue.

And, it's worth noting, his womanizing is clearly shown to be a flaw.

Quote:
He shows off the map and this gets a slutty dressed thief after him. He loses his half without even noticing and then she goes after the serious one with her friends and gets killed.

His loss of the map is a way of showing his recklessness and lack of commitment to the quest - i.e. the very thing that causes the conflict between him and his partner. The thief's allure is the method by which she extracts the map without his knowledge.

It's worth noting that the female thief

1) Is apparently the leader of the gang that attacks the swordsman
2) Is not the magic user; she is actually the most capable combatant of the three (thereby averting the "sexy sorceress" trope)
3) Is treated as a serious threat and killed, instead of being tidily defeated or wooed by the swordsman.

Quote:
The next girl is being rescued by the two. We then see them making out with three more girls. And they kill another girl monster...

Rescuing princesses is, again, a standard fantasy trope. And we don't actually see the two making out with three more girls - we see the swordsman kissing one girl, but the mage appears to just be hanging with his two companions. I took this as an indicator that the more "serious" partner was beginning to loosen up a little.

Quote:
At the ending two girls are eager to go running off with the pair.

They are, essentially, rock stars in that little town. Fawning female attention fits the level of prestige and celebrity that they have attained.

Quote:


Now ask yourself since the reward was obviously the fact that they grew into successful heroes, was it really necessary to have every women in the story be a sex object? EVERY woman except the one that was only a giant head was a sex object. Whether it was the village girls, the adventuring girls, the rescuees, the city girls, OR the thief. Even one of the two female monsters was painted as a sex lure.

I can see the stupid decision of the girl in the opening scene as part of the initial motivation these two share... BUT all through the story? NOT just where it would be appropriate but all through the story? Yes I still feel it is sexist.

Now, one can make a fair claim of sexism about a work with a persistent pattern of making women sex objects, and that appears to be what you're going for here (though obviously I disagree with you on the particulars). I think what you're overlooking is both tone and context.

I think you're absolutely right that the women are sexualized, but I don't think it's the ignorant objectification that you might see in, say, a Michael Bay film. This is a film that draws heavily upon existing fantasy tropes, and adventurers are typically conceived as being in pursuit of glory and women (or "Ale and Whores" if you prefer). In the fantasy world, adventurers are effectively rock stars, and when the young men dream of becoming either, the dreams include wealth, fame, mad skillz, and yes, the company of attractive women.

Rather than engage unabashedly in those tropes, though, I think the light-hearted tone of this piece suggests that everything is pretty tongue-in-cheek. The women are not drawn in ways that make them actually sexy - the seductive thief looks more ridiculous than anything else. Moreover, the women seem to actively pursue sex on their own terms, rather than being passive recipients (the female adventurer in the bushes seems to be an equal and willing participant; the amazons flirt, but are decked out as formidable warriors; the two women at the end actually approach the heroes, rather than being approached by them). And considering how fantasy art has depicted women in the past, I think we can reasonably infer that the authors are poking at least a little bit of fun at the old-fashioned tropes even as they employ them.

Now, taking everything as a whole, I'm not sure what could be changed without meaningfully impacting the story. The seductive thief and flirting barbarians are necessary both to demonstrate a crucial part of the mage's character and to introduce a moment of conflict between the two partners. Other things could perhaps be removed (e.g. the sea monster could be turned into something else), but removing certain scenes with women wouldn't solve the problem you identify as your main beef: that all of the women are sexual objects (it would merely decrease the number of sexual objects in the film). You would have to either add additional female characters (probably disruptive, given the tight, focused nature of the film) or alter the way the female characters that are present are depicted. However, the female characters, as currently depicted, are necessarily seen as "rewards," because they serve as a large part of the motivation for the characters (and particularly for the mage). They want to emulate the hero at the beginning because he looks cool and can get girls; at the end, they know that they've "made it" because they look good and can get girls.


That was awesome.


Heh, in my opinion the authors of this video clearly went well out of their way to represent women in a highly egalitarian manner, within the confines of the fantasy gaming tropes they were celebrating/parodying.

The complaints of "sexism" tend to focus on three things:

1. Many, if not most, of the women were drawn as being young and sexually desirable.
2. One of the main characters clearly had a weakness for beautiful women. He also demonstrated a weakness for wine and song, so I guess this must be a story that glorifies sex, drugs and rock and roll.
3. He drew an upskirt of a peasant girl's underpants.

Now, believe it or not I think that last one is the real problem here. It was the first introduction of a female to the story, and she was shown at first disdaining the clumsy advances of the young protagonist, then gleefully leaping on the stallion of the virile hero, complete with gratuitous panty shot.

I have no doubt that set the tone for many viewers who are sensitive to potential sexism.

I personally found that scene troublesome not because of the upskirt but because the young medieval peasant was apparently wearing a Victoria's Secret thong. My reaction upon seeing that was not "yowsa momma!" It was more "are you kidding me?"

Had that upskirt shot not been in the story I doubt there would be 1/10 as many complaints about sexism. And it not only was completely unnecessary, it was historically and thematically absurd to boot.

Otherwise it was a pretty nice video.


AD, I think you're spot-on with your analysis.


Something that's bothering me about this conversation is... well, two things. I've gone back and watched the film a second time to be sure when I speak, so...

First, there's assumption that the wizard's initial advance toward the young woman in the opener was somehow lecherous. This is unfair to the character at the point we meet him and people calling his initial advance lecherous or lewd are really letting later experience color their entire introduction. While we later find out that he is something of a lech (and how... wow, man...), his opening advance is merely to smile suggestively at her. Her reaction is one of rude, off-handed dismissal - and as we see when she picks the adventurer, it's because clearly Redhead MacMageboy has nothing to offer her. Captain Adventurepants is older, wiser, and more successful. She picks him over Ginger Von Magebuckle in a clearly excited, "Oh wow, look at how COOL he is!" manner.

At the end of the film, the women who get pulled up onto the duo's horses approach them, and are clearly giving each other signs of "look how we scored!"

If anything, the women of this sleepy little town appear to be looking out for Number One, and are only picking men who can Do Things For Them. Which is absolutely sexist, but not in the more obvious way that a lot of people have been bringing up.

Next, I've seen a couple of replies that would seem to indicate that some participants in this discussion think this film was done by a single "he" or that it was one man's project. It wasn't. I've re-read the credits and I feel I have to point something out:

4 of the 9 primary production staff are female, and include the Production Manager and primary artists.
6 of the 8 secondary animators are female.
2 of the 4 compositors are female.
5 of the 10 voice actors are female.
1 of the 2 story creators is female.

and so forth... Over half the staff of this production are female, and the primary team putting this together was mostly women.

Now, I'm not saying "This was made by mostly women, so it can't be sexist!" I think we all know how big a fallacy that is.

But I am saying this was a team effort, not the work of one guy, and that I would think that - as it was a team effort - there was a lot of input into how this story would be made and the direction it would go from the creative team. So if this is sexist in its entirety, it is in a way that was decided upon by a team. Make of that what you will.

I will say this, though, the music on this thing is fantastic.

edit to add

I'm not saying that sexism or sexist portrayals aren't rampant through this thing. Portraying the women of the town as gold diggers and the idea that with hard work and adventures and losing two fingers you, too, can get a hot lady are all kind of offensive to me.

I'm just pointing out a couple of things I think need to be clarified about the film. Nothing else. :)


Thanks for the heads up, jemstone. This is useful information. Still love the film to pieces, mind.

jemstone wrote:

Something that's bothering me about this conversation is... well, two things. I've gone back and watched the film a second time to be sure when I speak, so...

First, there's assumption that the wizard's initial advance toward the young woman in the opener was somehow lecherous. This is unfair to the character at the point we meet him and people calling his initial advance lecherous or lewd are really letting later experience color their entire introduction. While we later find out that he is something of a lech (and how... wow, man...), his opening advance is merely to smile suggestively at her. Her reaction is one of rude, off-handed dismissal - and as we see when she picks the adventurer, it's because clearly Redhead MacMageboy has nothing to offer her. Captain Adventurepants is older, wiser, and more successful. She picks him over Ginger Von Magebuckle in a clearly excited, "Oh wow, look at how COOL he is!" manner.

At the end of the film, the women who get pulled up onto the duo's horses approach them, and are clearly giving each other signs of "look how we scored!"

If anything, the women of this sleepy little town appear to be looking out for Number One, and are only picking men who can Do Things For Them. Which is absolutely sexist, but not in the more obvious way that a lot of people have been bringing up.

Next, I've seen a couple of replies that would seem to indicate that some participants in this discussion think this film was done by a single "he" or that it was one man's project. It wasn't. I've re-read the credits and I feel I have to point something out:

4 of the 9 primary production staff are female, and include the Production Manager and primary artists.
6 of the 8 secondary animators are female.
2 of the 4 compositors are female.
5 of the 10 voice actors are female.
1 of the 2 story creators is female.

and so forth... Over half the staff of this production are female, and the primary team putting this together was mostly women.

Now, I'm not saying "This...


Freehold DM wrote:
Thanks for the heads up, jemstone. This is useful information. Still love the film to pieces, mind.

I do, too. It's got its problems, but it's beautifully done and the music is just amazing. For a final exam project, this thing is amazing.

I'm just really big on fairness in conversations, and I felt I should call a couple of things in the thread out and shine some light on them.

That being said, dude, I want that staff.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

As AD pointed out, the panty shot is really what was most disappointing, although I saw it more as a proto-wedgie than a thong personally. My first watch-through, that was really the only thing I 'caught' as being overtly sexist. Unfortunately, it did 'set a tone', and the tone seemed to be 'women are foils in some way, shape, or form...'
Not sure that was either the intent, or what I really want to take from it.


I've missed much of the conversation because of the east coast blizzard.

Not to ignore the sexism of the piece, but does anyone else find it just as homoerotic as it is sexist?

I've watched it twice now. I think it's very engaging.


Trollin', Trollin', Trollin', Rawhide!

Silver Crusade

Hitdice: Yeah, kinda. (Those wacky filmmakers...sexism and homoerotic subtexts; what will they come up with next?)

Shadow Lodge

Pokemon and Dungeons and Dragons got special thanks. That only increased how cool the video was as a whole. Thanks for sharing.


Dot!


Hitdice wrote:


Not to ignore the sexism of the piece, but does anyone else find it just as homoerotic as it is sexist?

I find that an interesting statement, largely because of the context that surrounds those sorts of claims. To be more specific: any example of particularly deep/strong male-to-male bond is frequently characterized as "homoerotic," even in the absence of any actual sexual content (e.g., I've seen similar claims made about Frodo and Sam... despite the complete lack of ANY sexuality within Tolkien).

The scene that probably prompts this is the one wherein the two heroes are sharing a bedroll - the implication presumably being that sharing bed equates with sexual attraction. I think this actually says a lot more about how sex-obsessed we are as a culture than anything else; the notion that two people sharing personal space must be romantically involved suggests an oversensitivity to the possibility of hanky-panky.

So to answer your question: Yes, I find it just as homoerotic as I find it sexist. That is to say, "hardly at all."


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Well, I was really talking about that bit where they split up, get back together, cry in each others faces, and become all the more manly!

But yeah, I don't think a 6 minute student film is an appropriate place to codify gender roles.

Sovereign Court

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princeimrahil wrote:
Hitdice wrote:


Not to ignore the sexism of the piece, but does anyone else find it just as homoerotic as it is sexist?

I find that an interesting statement, largely because of the context that surrounds those sorts of claims. To be more specific: any example of particularly deep/strong male-to-male bond is frequently characterized as "homoerotic," even in the absence of any actual sexual content (e.g., I've seen similar claims made about Frodo and Sam... despite the complete lack of ANY sexuality within Tolkien).

...

Massive derail but...:

As a teacher, I see that kind of thing all the time.

If one male is very supportive of another -> mocked for being 'gay'.

Two men embrace or are partially undressed together (like, at the beach) in a comic, story or video-clip used to supporting learning -> mocked for being 'gay'.

It is a juvenile way of asserting masculinity when one actually has few socially recognised masculine attributes (still undergoing puberty, not permitted any responsibility, protected/excluded from risky behaviour, socially restricted from displaying dominance, not able to access trappings of manhood, etc.)

Plus, mocking others for being gay -> 'proof' of not being gay -> proof of socially constructed masculinity.

I claim my maleness by mocking others lack of it!

All built on a structure in which "masculinity" inculdes desire for women, objectification of women and (sadly, more often that not) dominance over women.

As long as that structure remains, homosexuality will always be regarded as 'less manly' and caricatured as effete.

Weird, really. Homophobia and misogyny are so tightly wound together.


Extremely well done. Loved it.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Cool. So totally dotting this...
Also, cool your jets guys, it's just an animation...
the more one analyses something, the more coldly detatched you become from it, and in many cases (especially if the thing is small, i.e., this) its like picking at a scab. Oh, sure, it's all enjoyable now, but when you tear it off and your leg is bleeding all over the carpet...anyway, point is. Just enjoy it. Not everything is perfect. This was fun. Yes, it bugged me a little to. Screw that.

As a side-note, i loved the high five the two girls do at the end. I found it to be a very humorous parallel considering the scene exactly before that...

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