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Cestus - what fighter weapon group does it belong in?


Rules Questions

Taldor

According to ultimate equipment the cestus is a monk weapon and in the 'monk weapon group' (page 47). As far as I can tell it is the only weapon in there other than the sai that doesn't belong in two weapon groups (monk, and then say close for the tonfa for ex).

The D20 pfsrd has the cestus listed as a close and a monk weapon.

Which is correct?

Shadow Lodge

The prd has is listed only as a monk weapon here and here, so the d20pfsrd is likely in error.

However, I would house-rule it into the close weapons group, since it really doesn't make sense for brass knuckles and the gauntlet to be in that group without the cestus. That'd be like having throwing axes and battleaxes but not handaxes in the "axe" group.


I agree, would add it to the fighter's close weapon group


Its in both weapon groups and its not an error.There are a ton of weapons that are in different weapon groups like unarmed strikes,katar,punching dagger,cestus,brass knuckles.....and so on and so forth.


Sleet Storm wrote:
Its in both weapon groups and its not an error.

What source says it's in the close weapons group?


Ultimate Combat says it.

The close weapon group is a mix of light blades and monk weapons and most of the weapons in it also fall into one of those groups.


So that you can see that its not an accident heres the three weapon groups....decide for yourself:

Blades, Light: bayonet, butterfly knife, butterfly sword, chakram, dagger, gladius, hunga munga, kama, katar, kerambit, kukri, madu, pata, quadrens, rapier, sawtooth sabre, scizore, shortsword, sica, sickle, starknife, swordbreaker dagger, sword cane, wakizashi, and war razor.

Close: bayonet, brass knuckles, cestus, dan bong, emei piercer, fighting fan, gauntlet, heavy shield, iron brush, katar, light shield, madu, mere club, punching dagger, rope gauntlet, sap, scizore, spiked armor, spiked gauntlet, spiked shield, tekko-kagi, tonfa, unarmed strike, wooden stake, and wushu dart.

Monk: bo staff, brass knuckles, butterfly sword, cestus, dan bong, double chained kama, double chicken saber, emei piercer, fighting fan, hanbo, jutte, kama, kusarigama, kyoketsu shoge, lungshuan tamo, monk's spade, nine-ring broadsword, nine-section whip, nunchaku, quarterstaff, rope dart, sai, sansetsukon, seven-branched sword, shang gou, shuriken, siangham, temple sword, tiger fork, tonfa, tri-point double-edged sword, unarmed strike, urumi, and wushu dart.

Andoran

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
Sleet Storm wrote:

Ultimate Combat says it.

The close weapon group is a mix of light blades and monk weapons and most of the weapons in it also fall into one of those groups.

Just double-checked, Ultimate Combat does not appear to include the cestus in the close weapon group, though it does include it in the monk group.

Andoran

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
Sleet Storm wrote:

So that you can see that its not an accident heres the three weapon groups....decide for yourself:

Blades, Light: bayonet, butterfly knife, butterfly sword, chakram, dagger, gladius, hunga munga, kama, katar, kerambit, kukri, madu, pata, quadrens, rapier, sawtooth sabre, scizore, shortsword, sica, sickle, starknife, swordbreaker dagger, sword cane, wakizashi, and war razor.

Close: bayonet, brass knuckles, cestus, dan bong, emei piercer, fighting fan, gauntlet, heavy shield, iron brush, katar, light shield, madu, mere club, punching dagger, rope gauntlet, sap, scizore, spiked armor, spiked gauntlet, spiked shield, tekko-kagi, tonfa, unarmed strike, wooden stake, and wushu dart.

Monk: bo staff, brass knuckles, butterfly sword, cestus, dan bong, double chained kama, double chicken saber, emei piercer, fighting fan, hanbo, jutte, kama, kusarigama, kyoketsu shoge, lungshuan tamo, monk's spade, nine-ring broadsword, nine-section whip, nunchaku, quarterstaff, rope dart, sai, sansetsukon, seven-branched sword, shang gou, shuriken, siangham, temple sword, tiger fork, tonfa, tri-point double-edged sword, unarmed strike, urumi, and wushu dart.

Where are you pulling those groups from? The PRD and my copy of Ultimate Combat do not include the cestus in the close weapon group.


Ssalarn wrote:
Sleet Storm wrote:

Ultimate Combat says it.

The close weapon group is a mix of light blades and monk weapons and most of the weapons in it also fall into one of those groups.

Just double-checked, Ultimate Combat does not appear to include the cestus in the close weapon group, though it does include it in the monk group.

Well I suggest you triple-check it then cause its there.


This is from UC:
This book and the Advanced Player’s Guide present a number of weapons not on the weapon group lists in the Core Rulebook.
Below is an update of that list, with all the weapons from those two books as well as new weapons introduced in this book. It
also presents two new groups: firearms and siege weapons. Weapons with one asterisk (*) can be found in the Advanced Player’s
Guide. Weapons with two asterisks (**) can be found in this book.
Weapon groups are defined as follows (GMs may add other weapons to these groups, or add entirely new groups):
Axes: bardiche*, battleaxe, dwarven waraxe, greataxe, handaxe, heavy pick, hooked axe**, knuckle axe**, light pick,
mattock**, orc double axe, pata**, and throwing axe
Blades, Heavy: bastard sword, chakram*, double chicken saber**, double walking stick katana**, elven curve blade, falcata*,
falchion, greatsword, great terbutje**, katana**, khopesh*, longsword, nine-ring broadsword**, nodachi**, scimitar, scythe,
seven-branched sword**, shotel**, temple sword*, terbutje**, and two-bladed sword
Blades, Light: bayonet*, butterfly sword**, dagger, gladius**, kama, kerambit**, kukri, pata**, quadrens**, rapier, short
sword, sica**, sickle, starknife, swordbreaker dagger*, sword cane*, and wakizashi**
Bows: composite longbow, composite shortbow, longbow, and shortbow
Close: bayonet*, brass knuckles*, cestus**, dan bong**, emei piercer**, fighting fan**, gauntlet, heavy shield, iron brush**,
light shield, madu**, mere club**, punching dagger, sap, scizore**, spiked armor, spiked gauntlet, spiked shield, tekko-kagi**,
tonfa**, unarmed strike, wooden stake*, and wushu dart**
Crossbows: double crossbow*, hand crossbow, heavy crossbow, heavy repeating crossbow, light crossbow, light repeating
crossbow, and tube arrow shooter**
Double: dire flail, dwarven urgrosh, gnome hooked hammer, orc double axe, quarterstaff, and two-bladed sword
Firearms: all one-handed**, two-handed**, and siege firearms**
Flails: chain spear*, dire flail, double chained kama**, flail, flying blade**, heavy flail, kusarigama**, kyoketsu shoge**, meteor
hammer**, morningstar, nine-section whip**, nunchaku, sansetsukon**, scorpion whip**, spiked chain, urumi**, and whip
Hammers: aklys**, battle aspergillum*, club, greatclub, heavy mace, light hammer, light mace, mere club**, taiaha**,
tetsubo**, wahaika**, and warhammer
Monk: bo staff**, brass knuckles**, butterfly sword**, cestus*, dan bong**, double chained kama**, double chicken saber**,emei piercer**, fighting fan**, jutte**, kama, kusarigama**, kyoketsu shoge**, lungshuan tamo**, monk’s spade**, nine-ring
broadsword**, nine-section whip**, nunchaku, quarterstaff, rope dart**, sai, sansetsukon**, seven-branched sword**, shang
gou**, shuriken, siangham, tiger fork**, tonfa**, tri-point double-edged sword**, unarmed strike, urumi**, wushu dart**
Natural: unarmed strike and all natural weapons, such as bite, claw, gore, tail, and wing
Polearms: bardiche*, bec de corbin*, bill*, glaive, glaive-guisarme*, guisarme, halberd, hooked lance**, lucerne hammer*,
mancatcher*, monk’s spade**, naginata**, nodachi**, ranseur, rohomphaia**,tepoztopili**, and tiger fork**
Spears: amentum**, boar spear*, javelin, harpoon**, lance, longspear, pilum*, shortspear, sibat**, spear, tiger fork**, and
trident
Thrown: aklys**, amentum**, atlatl**, blowgun, bolas, boomerang*, chakram*, club, dagger, dart, halfling sling staff,
harpoon**, javelin, lasso*, kestros**, light hammer, net, poisoned sand tube**, rope dart**, shortspear, shuriken, sling, spear,
starknife, throwing axe, throwing shield**, trident, and wushu dart**
Siege Engines: all siege engines**


Sleet Storm wrote:
Well I suggest you triple-check it then cause its there.

PRD, UC, Class Archetypes, Fighter, Expanded Weapon Groups, Close: "bayonet, brass knuckles, dan bong, emei piercer, fighting fan, gauntlet, heavy shield, iron brush, light shield, madu, mere club, punching dagger, sap, scizore, spiked armor, spiked gauntlet, spiked shield, tekko-kagi, tonfa, unarmed strike, wooden stake, and wushu dart"

Are you seeing it actually listed there? Did you just check?

Is it in your book? Which printing?


First Printing


Sleet Storm wrote:
First Printing

I'm assuming you didn't type that up, so is it from a PDF?

Whatever source that is also has rohomphaia and tepoztopili listed under Polearms.


Search only finds one instance of cestus on the appropriate page on the official PRD. It's under the monk weapon group.


Grick wrote:
Sleet Storm wrote:
First Printing
I'm assuming you didn't type that up, so is it from a PDF?

Obviously

Grick wrote:

Whatever source that is also has rohomphaia and tepoztopili listed under Polearms.

If I say its from my copy of UC you can believe that I'm speaking the truth.I don't see why they should drop the cestus and keep the other weapons that are in multiple weapon groups.

Andoran

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

I've got the book and the PRD up and the Cestus isn't in the close weapon group. I've already linked in the PRD. Unless there was an update to the .pdf that hasn't been noted in errata anywhere, I don't know how you're getting the cestus as being in that group.

Andoran

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
Sleet Storm wrote:
If I say its from my copy of UC you can believe that I'm speaking the truth.I don't see why they should drop the cestus and keep the other weapons that are in multiple weapon groups.

It isn't showing up anywhere, including in the official PRD and the physical book, and your pasted information includes weapons that are mistyped (it's the rhomphaia, not the rohomphaia). Not that that typo couldn't also exist in the .pdf.


If someone else can verify the PDF has them listed (and the typo), they could post it to the Ultimate Combat errata thread to be fixed (one way or another) in the next printing (which should automatically update the PDF and the PRD).


Picture from my First printing UC book, physical copy

Cestus is a close weapon in there.


BuzzardB wrote:

Picture from my First printing UC book, physical copy

Cestus is a close weapon in there.

Are you sure you didn't photoshop that:)

Can someone verify that this is indeed a real picture? :)

Taldor

My pdf copy of ultimate combat (re-downloaded from paizo today) has it listed on page 45 as being in the close weapon group.

Spoiler:

Expanded Weapon Groups
Weapons with one asterisk (*) can be found in the Advanced Player’s Guide. Weapons with two asterisks (**) can be found in this book.
Weapon groups are defined as follows (GMs may add other weapons to these groups, or add entirely new groups):

Axes: bardiche*, battleaxe, dwarven waraxe, greataxe, handaxe, heavy pick, hooked axe**, knuckle axe**, light pick, mattock**, orc double axe, pata**, and throwing axe

Blades, Heavy: bastard sword, chakram*, double chicken saber**, double walking stick katana**, elven curve blade, falcata*, falchion, greatsword, great terbutje**, katana**, khopesh*, longsword, nine-ring broadsword**, nodachi**, scimitar, scythe, seven-branched sword**, shotel**, temple sword*, terbutje**, and two-bladed sword

Blades, Light: bayonet*, butterfly sword**, dagger, gladius**, kama, kerambit**, kukri, pata**, quadrens**, rapier, short sword, sica**, sickle, starknife, swordbreaker dagger*, sword cane*, and wakizashi**
Bows: composite longbow, composite shortbow, longbow, and shortbow

Close: bayonet*, brass knuckles*, cestus**, dan bong**, emei piercer**, fighting fan**, gauntlet, heavy shield, iron brush**, light shield, madu**, mere club**, punching dagger, sap, scizore**, spiked armor, spiked gauntlet, spiked shield, tekko-kagi**, tonfa**, unarmed strike, wooden stake*, and wushu dart**

Crossbows: double crossbow*, hand crossbow, heavy crossbow, heavy repeating crossbow, light crossbow, light repeating crossbow, and tube arrow shooter**

Double: dire flail, dwarven urgrosh, gnome hooked hammer, orc double axe, quarterstaff, and two-bladed sword Firearms: all one-handed**, two-handed**, and siege firearms**

Flails: chain spear*, dire flail, double chained kama**, flail, flying blade**, heavy flail, kusarigama**, kyoketsu shoge**, meteor
hammer**, morningstar, nine-section whip**, nunchaku, sansetsukon**, scorpion whip**, spiked chain, urumi**, and whip Hammers: aklys**, battle aspergillum*, club, greatclub, heavy mace, light hammer, light mace, mere club**, taiaha**,
tetsubo**, wahaika**, and warhammer

Monk: bo staff**, brass knuckles**, butterfly sword**, cestus*, dan bong**, double chained kama**, double chicken saber**,
emei piercer**, fighting fan**, jutte**, kama, kusarigama**, kyoketsu shoge**, lungshuan tamo**, monk’s spade**, nine-ring broadsword**, nine-section whip**, nunchaku, quarterstaff, rope dart**, sai, sansetsukon**, seven-branched sword**, shang gou**, shuriken, siangham, tiger fork**, tonfa**, tri-point double-edged sword**, unarmed strike, urumi**, wushu dart**

Natural: unarmed strike and all natural weapons, such as bite, claw, gore, tail, and wing

Polearms: bardiche*, bec de corbin*, bill*, glaive, glaive-guisarme*, guisarme, halberd, hooked lance**, lucerne hammer*, mancatcher*, monk’s spade**, naginata**, nodachi**, ranseur, rohomphaia**,tepoztopili**, and tiger fork**

Spears: amentum**, boar spear*, javelin, harpoon**, lance, longspear, pilum*, shortspear, sibat**, spear, tiger fork**, and trident

Thrown: aklys**, amentum**, atlatl**, blowgun, bolas, boomerang*, chakram*, club, dagger, dart, halfling sling staff, harpoon**, javelin, lasso*, kestros**, light hammer, net, poisoned sand tube**, rope dart**, shortspear, shuriken, sling, spear, starknife, throwing axe, throwing shield**, trident, and wushu dart**

The issue is ultimate equipment listing it as only monk - it is newer than ultimate combat.

Seems really odd that it was taken out of close weapons given that they are basically the greek / roman version of brass knuckles / spiked gauntlets.

Andoran

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
BuzzardB wrote:

Picture from my First printing UC book, physical copy

Cestus is a close weapon in there.

Interesting. They'll need to update the PRD then.


Sleet Storm wrote:
BuzzardB wrote:

Picture from my First printing UC book, physical copy

Cestus is a close weapon in there.

Are you sure you didn't photoshop that:)

Can someone verify that this is indeed a real picture? :)

While I AM good enough with photoshop to do that, I am also way to lazy lol.

Though apparently not too lazy to take a picture of my book and upload it >_>

Andoran

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
Sleet Storm wrote:
BuzzardB wrote:

Picture from my First printing UC book, physical copy

Cestus is a close weapon in there.

Are you sure you didn't photoshop that:)

Can someone verify that this is indeed a real picture? :)

There's no need to be snide. Paizo clearly has an issue here that requires them to at least update their PRD. Collecting all of that information for them expedites the process.


Ssalarn wrote:
I've got the book and the PRD up and the Cestus isn't in the close weapon group.

I only see one printing of UC on the website. Are you guys looking in different parts of the book?

If it's listed in the book and the PDF, then it's just a problem with the PRD and should probably be reported here.

Andoran

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
Grick wrote:
Ssalarn wrote:
I've got the book and the PRD up and the Cestus isn't in the close weapon group.

I only see one printing of UC on the website. Are you guys looking in different parts of the book?

If it's listed in the book and the PDF, then it's just a problem with the PRD and should probably be reported here.

Posted.


I was looking at page 45 on my physical copy of Ultimate Combat, first printing august 2011.

The section is called expanded weapon groups

For completion sake, in my PDF copy of Ultimate Combat first printing august 2011, here is the screen grab of the same page (p45)

Cestus


Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules Subscriber

I'm looking at my physical copy of the first printing UC & also seeing Cestus as being in the Close Weapon Group.

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