Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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I'm pretty diligent as a player about tracking my encumbrance, and I try hard to enforce encumbrance rules as the DM, but it seems like every time I do, the party can legitimately carry their insane haul through some combination of magic, strong barbarian party members, and mounts.
When I'm feeling really OCD, I dream about an app or even a bunch of cardboard cutouts that act like the inventory system in Diablo/X-Com. Each character would have a number of encumbrance boxes, and would need to load their equipment into those. One of the "holes" in the current encumbrance rules is that you can carry a collection of objects that, while technically within the character's encumbrance limits, would be impossible to carry IRL (e.g., a half dozen polearms).
But, all that said, tracking encumbrance isn't all that much fun, and coins are usually at the bottom of the barrel. My usual rule of thumb is to confirm a character can carry their armor and weapons, and leave coins, potions, and arrows as rounding errors unless they are massively out of whack (10k+ coins).
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Last time that bugged me in a home game, I used a silver standard instead. SP became gold , gold took the place of electrum, and SP to CP ratio was changed from 1:10 to 1:100.
I went through a period of time in which all of my campaigns used a silver standard. I really liked the flavor it created - players were excited when they received gold coins, and platinum coins were a cause for celebration.
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For most of our games, we check weight accurately when you make the character. After that, it's assumed your encumbrance stays about at that point unless you pick up something particularly heavy. Once you have extradimensional storage the definition of "particularly heavy" changes. Space is never tracked as it is assumed you can strap most things to the outside of a backpack if you can carry the weight. As for currency weight, it's assumed you actually keep it in the most convenient form possible (gold early on, gems and other valuables later). By the time you're carrying around thousands of gold you are expected to have extradimensional storage.
I guess in general we handwave it, which is odd for our rules-obsessed group. It's just too much of a pain to actually track in an up-to-date manner.
Which is why PCGen is a big help :)
Which is why PCGen is a big help :)
Yes it is.
I tend to use Gems instead of actual Coins for loot. Though my recent campaigns have the PCs simply taking missions then receiving Paper Money (Negligible Weight.) or receive credit from their Commanding Officer.
ts raining effin gold here. And I understand... Staff of wonder is like what 200000gp? at 50 coins per pound when you go to buy your staff of wonder all you need to do is march your 2 SOLID TONS OF GOLD into the market... You know... A 1953 buick made of solid gold... Just you know... Roll it into town square... No big deal....
...
My response is he's the one complaining about too much wealth in the world. And thats not even necessarily the problem. Its too much 'perceived wealth'.. The gm hates the 'idea' of my character walking around with 80 pounds of platinum in his pockets and feels like thats just too much when the rest of the town is paying a gold or two here and there for a loaf of bread and a chicken... And its not just me. Every character in our party is swinging...
I never really thought about these two things. They make total sense.
I think you mean Nodwick the Henchman's original Miniature...
I've been thinking of simplifying the carrying capacity system so that it actually can be used practically. Dropping a bit of realism for the sake of getting a system that one has the patience to use might be a good idea. Don't know exactly what should be done though, apart from lowering the numbers.
It has been used extensively. This is still it in the earlier stages. Though I haven't gotten a chance to use it in a while.
NOTE: The blog is currently under construction.
Also I have found the Bottomless Wallet. If functions as an unlimited coin holding Bag of Holding for 500GP. But can only hold non-magical coins.
Well, right now I am running a group of 4 3rd level Pathfinder characters. They bought a wagon, and 2 horses, along with a ton of common meals that I upgraded to good for free on account of their hiring out a professional cook/driver NPC(just like in those Western flicks). He is however demanding trained wages instead of untrained (he calls it combat pay) because crazy, deadly nonsense keeps happening. He'd just joined the party when they got charged by 40 dervishes (level 2 warriors on horseback) armed with scimitars. Said dervishes got promptly et by a sudden swarm of maneating locusts after their first successful charge against the party. Nobody knows why (but I do).
They store their excess gear on either the Orc Fighter, or in the wagon. Eventually I figure they'll need extradimensional holding space of some sort. I did the math, and discovered that a Portable Hole is the best single item. It has 2 more cubic feet of space than a Type 1 and Type 4 Bag of Holding combined, and no weight limit nor weakness to being pierced by objects it holds. That said, it's the most expensive.
Always wanted to run a Wizard with an alchemist's lab and bed stored inside a Portable Hole. Just climb in via ladder, and you get perfect accommodations for travel no matter where you go!
While it certainly can be taken too far I have to say i love it when a table actually bothers to pursue the camping/carrying/eating part of the campaign. It makes the characters feel like real people and if the issue never comes up then I feel kind foolish wasting good gold and spell slots on secure shelter and ring of sustenance.
While it certainly can be taken too far I have to say i love it when a table actually bothers to pursue the camping/carrying/eating part of the campaign. It makes the characters feel like real people and if the issue never comes up then I feel kind foolish wasting good gold and spell slots on secure shelter and ring of sustenance.
Exactly this is one of my favorite parts. Especially in Sandbox Campaigns. One of the things I hate about not tracking it is that it starts to feel like a Video Game.
& Am I the only one that finds it funny that to build a true "Dervish" to match the Real Life Fluff and Fighting Style one would need to either Multiclass or Gestalt a Cleric & Monk Build and Max out Perform(Dance)... Though their Spells would probably work best as Buffs.
Usually by the time the party has enough gold and equipment that it would strain their encumbrance and/or ordinary container capacity, they have a handy haversack or bag of holding or two, so no, I don't worry about it too much.
If they seem to have a ridiculous amount of stuff, I might ask them to roughly see if they are hitting the max capacity of the haversack/BOH, but that doesn't happen very often. I might have once had to say, "No, you can't stuff the entire dragon carcass into the bag of holding," but only once. :)
I might have once had to say, "No, you can't stuff the entire dragon carcass into the bag of holding," but only once. :)
Priceless...
My normal PCs starting equipment without Armour or Special Weapons (non-dagger, club, or sling) is around 106 Pounds or 108 if I get a Masterwork Backpack.
My group's tendency is to track everything except money weight, with the rationale that "money" includes gems for higher denominations. For the Runelords game I'm running, I set up a weight system for hoards based on a certain weight per 50,000 GP or so, worth of "stuff". In the latest dragon hoard, I didn't bother to "enforce" that rule, since I didn't really care by that point.
From this experience, I recommend doing it the Wile E. Coyote way: leave the rules in, but don't really enforce them until someone looks down. Make a gut call, and tell the players it'll take a day (or whatever) to move the loot, and if they think it won't take that long, have them calculate the actual amount of effort required (oh, hoards have LOTS of copper coins, that ramps the weight up rather quickly). It would be rude to spring this on them out of nowhere, so let them do that. You gave them a day to move the loot, and they decided to look down, and notice that the ground ended 20 yards back over there.
Interesting tidbit: in Council of Theives, there is a Bag of Holding with coins in it as loot. The actual weight of the coins it is described as having would not fit in the bag. Take that for what you will.
Edit: We also houserule that clothing being worn doesn't count against encumbrance.
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Usually by the time the party has enough gold and equipment that it would strain their encumbrance and/or ordinary container capacity, they have a handy haversack or bag of holding or two, so no, I don't worry about it too much.
If they seem to have a ridiculous amount of stuff, I might ask them to roughly see if they are hitting the max capacity of the haversack/BOH, but that doesn't happen very often. I might have once had to say, "No, you can't stuff the entire dragon carcass into the bag of holding," but only once. :)
Right. You need to stuff the hindlegs in one bag, forelegs in another, torso in a third...
"You want to put the carcass of that Gargantuan creature in your belt pouch?"
That is just wow...
It makes the characters feel like real people and if the issue never comes up then I feel kind foolish wasting good gold and spell slots on secure shelter and ring of sustenance.
It's never a waste for a spellcaster especially to grab a ring of Sustenance. Remember, you have to get 8 hours of sleep so you can rememorize spells. That means for you to take a night watch shift, everybody has to rest total 10 hours. If you have one of those rings, you not only save on encumbrance and money for food etc, you also don't have to sleep much. That is a HUGE boon!
Besides, as DM I get partial to assigning fatigue the next day, all day, if someone didn't sleep or eat properly. And I know darned well that one can't survive long on trail rations, and just how tempting it is when there's real food available and you've only had trail rations for weeks....
Edit: We also houserule that clothing being worn doesn't count against encumbrance.
That's actually a rule left over from 3.5 that didn't apparently make it over to Pathfinder, for some strange reason.
Oh, and that Bag of Holding weight limit? Ignore that chump item, get yourself a Portable Hole. Oddly enough, if you check it has 282 cubic feet of space in it, NO WEIGHT LIMIT, and can't be accidentally pierced with sharp stored objects.
PS Why isn't there stats in the new GMG for a hired cook/wagon driver?! You'd think such an individual would be hired out for most PC groups, that's a pretty common need! Now I gotta write up one of my own, and I didn't think it was worth going to all the trouble of having a separate character sheet for the man. He's just some schmuck NPC Commoner sort, after all.
Well, in real life they didn't use coins as such for wealth anyway. Mostly they had a theoretical unit of money, and then assigned values for different goods and services, and that was what you paid in. They'd fine you a shilling, and you'd pay with a shilling's worth of beer or cheese etc. But at no time did anyone actually USE a shilling.
Now, I could easily see high level adventurers converting much of their gold into platinum, and storing the bulk of their wealth in some relatively cheap form of extradimensional holding space. That never really happens in my games, since players tend to blow their dough as fast as possible, only saving up when it was something that couldn't be bought piecemeal.
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As a side note on weight carried in Pathfinder.
The kit all alchemists are required to carry in order to mix their extracts weighs 50 lbs.
Eeek!
I'm glad that's a typo, other wise Damiel would look more like THIS.
As a player I keep track of encumbrance. As a GM I ask they keep track of encumbrance but am not a complete stickler about it. I figure it fluctuates a little bit.
Regarding gold etc: I have long believed that the entire 3.X/PF economics system is screwed up so I just state that gold is really a generic metric for equipment points. While I do record gold values and weights normally I dont delve into the deeper issues of 'gold supply' 'diamond supply' or 'silver supply' since all three 'rare' materials seem to be out of proportion to any sort of realism.
- Gauss
I tend to say they have around XGP of Wealth (Random Gems and such). You have to remember that bartering was more common. This means that a Farmer needing a Horseshoe might trade a bushel of Wheat for 4 of them because the Blacksmith needs Wheat for making bread. Or a Tailor trading a Tunic to the Baker for a Loaf of Bread.
I tend to say they have around XGP of Wealth (Random Gems and such). You have to remember that bartering was more common. This means that a Farmer needing a Horseshoe might trade a bushel of Wheat for 4 of them because the Blacksmith needs Wheat for making bread. Or a Tailor trading a Tunic to the Baker for a Loaf of Bread.Also a lot of dealing on credit/IOUs. Locally at least. When you know everyone in the village and you know who's good for their debts, it's not a big deal to shoe their horse now in exchange for more food at harvest.
When you're basically working subsistence agriculture and support trades on a very local scale, currency isn't that necessary.
That as well. Hmm, wonder how hard it would be to make a campaign based on a small town once Ultimate Campaign comes out.
My PFS experience:
1) Encumbrance - Yes. We look at weight and encumbrance and I have enforced it when I GM and seen it enforced by others.
2) Coin Weight - Heck no. EVERYONE ignores coin weight. There is no such thing as light encumbrance if you are carrying around your gold coins. Most people don't even know that coins have a weight. It only ever comes up with players who use herolab and are wondering why they are not getting full use of their Dex mod.
I am simply looking to see how many groups actually use the Encumbrance Rules.
I use the rules and go based on the Weight. But I do know some groups handwave it away.
I am just curious how many people actually use them.
I use them, though I admit I don't make use of space/weight except in exceptional circumstances or in the case where it is called out. This is mostly due to lack of information, rather than handwaving. For example, the equipment chapters of the book do not give capacities for things like backpacks, sacks, etc. The encumbrance rules likewise do not care about capacity, merely weight. So really it's just a matter of if you're strong enough to carry it, with exceptions of things like Bags of Holding which clearly define their dimensions which may prevent you from filling them with huge volumes of low-weight material.
If you have enough strength for it...
But I do enforce encumbrance. Usually whenever the party acquires a significant amount of treasure or something new will I "test encumbrance" (no one wants to stop and re-calculate encumbrance because you picked up a gem off the ground, but when you loot a few rolls of silk out of a wagon I'll ask about it). Many of my adventures are more about the entirety of the adventure and the perils of being an adventurer. Which means actually getting your treasure back to town can be an adventure in and of itself. :P
Actually (IIRC) it does give dimensions for the Backpack...
And what is that picture from?
But I go based on Weight as long as it is obvious it can't fit. As the above stated a Dragon in the small BoH. Or a really large horde of Gold Coins in a Portable Hole. Now I tend to allow a Smaller Dragon's Horde to fit in one entirely and say it is made of coins, gems, and other small valuables.
Actually (IIRC) it does give dimensions for the Backpack...
I couldn't find it in my copy or the PRD.
And what is that picture from?
Ducktales: Treasure of the Lost Lamp. Dijon the Thief. He'll take anything that isn't nailed down, and he stuffs it all in his clothes.
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While it certainly can be taken too far I have to say i love it when a table actually bothers to pursue the camping/carrying/eating part of the campaign. It makes the characters feel like real people and if the issue never comes up then I feel kind foolish wasting good gold and spell slots on secure shelter and ring of sustenance.Exactly this is one of my favorite parts. Especially in Sandbox Campaigns. One of the things I hate about not tracking it is that it starts to feel like a Video Game.
& Am I the only one that finds it funny that to build a true "Dervish" to match the Real Life Fluff and Fighting Style one would need to either Multiclass or Gestalt a Cleric & Monk Build and Max out Perform(Dance)... Though their Spells would probably work best as Buffs.
Actually, I feel the opposite way about it. Baldur's Gate & Everquest were some of the places I felt most needing to make sure my Weight Limit was watched the most.
OOps, I picked up armor, do I have room in one of my 100% weight reduction bags, or do I need to transfer something into my 80% weight reduction bags.......Hey, I'm moving slowly, lets dump 3,000cp so I can move more normal again and keep farming GP/PP instead of taking the time to go to a bank to convert that around.
Nothing makes you pay more attention to your weight limit than a video game because you will notice it when you hit it if you weren't paying attention to it. When its pen/paper, you're likely not to pay attention to it, and go "oh, I'm over and have been over for awhile now....oh well".
Having said that, I did make sure my Cavalier made his weight limit (to keep a 30' move), and I made sure his horse did too (was soooooo happy when the horse added strength and I could carry extra stuff again).
While it certainly can be taken too far I have to say i love it when a table actually bothers to pursue the camping/carrying/eating part of the campaign. It makes the characters feel like real people and if the issue never comes up then I feel kind foolish wasting good gold and spell slots on secure shelter and ring of sustenance.Exactly this is one of my favorite parts. Especially in Sandbox Campaigns. One of the things I hate about not tracking it is that it starts to feel like a Video Game.
& Am I the only one that finds it funny that to build a true "Dervish" to match the Real Life Fluff and Fighting Style one would need to either Multiclass or Gestalt a Cleric & Monk Build and Max out Perform(Dance)... Though their Spells would probably work best as Buffs.
Actually, I feel the opposite way about it. Baldur's Gate & Everquest were some of the places I felt most needing to make sure my Weight Limit was watched the most.
OOps, I picked up armor, do I have room in one of my 100% weight reduction bags, or do I need to transfer something into my 80% weight reduction bags.......Hey, I'm moving slowly, lets dump 3,000cp so I can move more normal again and keep farming GP/PP instead of taking the time to go to a bank to convert that around.
Nothing makes you pay more attention to your weight limit than a video game because you will notice it when you hit it if you weren't paying attention to it. When its pen/paper, you're likely not to pay attention to it, and go "oh, I'm over and have been over for awhile now....oh well".
Having said that, I did make sure my Cavalier made his weight limit (to keep a 30' move), and I made sure his horse did too (was soooooo happy when the horse added strength and I could carry extra stuff again).
100% agreed. And yeah man, I love BG I & II and it's just like that. I love Imoen in BG I and always keep her (dual class her to mage I do), but that 9 strength suuuucks. Always end up handing her the really light stuff. She can carry the arrows and stuff, but much else and she moves like a slug. XD
There are some exceptions but most Video Games have no encumbrance system.
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Ducktales: Treasure of the Lost Lamp. Dijon the Thief. He'll take anything that isn't nailed down, and he stuffs it all in his clothes.
I'm immediately reminded of this.
Ducktales: Treasure of the Lost Lamp. Dijon the Thief. He'll take anything that isn't nailed down, and he stuffs it all in his clothes.I'm immediately reminded of this.
I love it!
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I'm immediately reminded of this.
BAB +11 or better: Switch off your opponent's Str-booster, and have them crash to the floor, crushed by their own equipment. Coup de gras coming up!
Wait, you can turn off a belt of Str?!
The switch on the right side of the Buckle.
There are some exceptions but most Video Games have no encumbrance system.
I think calling them "Exceptions" is undercutting their placement in the genre though. Those aren't the only ones, just the ones that I remember most having to "suffer" because of it.
Any of the D&D Based Video Games (BG, ID, NWN, DDO...) included it.
EverQuest was probably the first HUGE MMO out there, and it included it as well. Since it's still running 15 years later, I'd consider it significant as well.
I believe several others out there (Elder Scrolls, Mass Effect...) also include it, but I didn't play them, so I'm going on here-say.
Other games, instead of saying "you can have X much weight", used the mechanic of "You can carry Y number of things". WoW falls into this, as does Diablo (and many others). So the "Carrying Capacity" is still limited, and still in the game.
When you limit it to "How Much Stuff can my Video Game Character(s) carry", I think its actually a significant portion of Genre of games out there. The Mechanic they use might not all be the same, but it is there.
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As a PLAYER, I always keep track of my encumbrance, but not always my coin weight (i used to).
As a GM, I don't particularly care unless it comes down to hauling out loot, in which case I have to ask the group how they're gonna carry that 1/2 a ton of copper coins (50,000) that shadow dragon was sleeping on back to town.
And ZugZug hits it on the head as far as video games are concerned.
15% of VRPGs include an "Encumbrance" System and counting those 39% have a "Carrying Capacity" System last time a Respectable Video Game Magazine figured it up (November 2012). The other CRPGs don't have them.
Now MMORPG and CRPGs are at 47% (counting the ones that overlap with the 39% amount).