I don't understand why people say Forgecage is unusable


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


Seems weak being resistant sphere can do the same thing but doesn't seem to be the enigma everyone mentions. Am I missing something?

Sovereign Court

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Forcecage has a number of things going against it.

1. 500gp material component for every single casting.

2. It allows a Reflex save to negate; the old version from that other game did not allow a save.

3. Its range, duration, and area are ALL small for a high level spell, making it somewhat hard to use tactically. By the time you can cast this spell you are often fighting enemies who are too big to cast it on.

4. There is a range of options for escaping before the duration expires.


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I think the big reason there are so many complaints about it are in comparison to the OGL version of the same spell:

For comparison:

3.5 OGL version of forcecage

PFRPG version of forcecage

Note that the spell remains 7th level in both, but in PFRPG, it is severely nerfed.

1) Duration down from 2 hours per level to 1 round per level.
2) PF version now allows a saving throw. In 3.5 is was an "instant immobilization" spell.

In 3.5 it was balanced by a very expensive material component. In PF it's still expensive, but 1/3 the price.

In 3.5 I think the spell was slightly overpowered for its level-- as written, I think it should maybe be an 8th-level spell, as it's similar in power level to maze.

I think it was over-nerfed for PF. Either the duration shortening OR the addition of the saving throw seems appropriate, but both seems to make this spell extremely under-powered for a 7th-level spell. As written, it's not really that much better than the 4th-level resilient sphere, and in comparison, seems to me to be more like a 5th level spell.

In my home rules, forcecage remains a 7th-level spell, with a duration of 1 round/level, but there's no saving throw. Material component cost is 1000 gp.


Interesting, I never heard of this one till now.


Well from some of the rules threads I've read forcecage basically cant function because if the person succeeds it still moves the out of the way of the cage.


Yeah, forcecage was nerfed a bit too far... or rather, I think it would be a decent spell if it didn't have a material cost each time.

The 3.5 version was extremely annoying though. No save, and it stops most melee characters from being able to do anything, unless they can teleport or have a rod of cancellation (even then, they would need to take the rod out, wasting a turn, and possibly making them drop their weapon to bring out the rod).


By the time you hit 13th level, you fight a lot of enemies with dimension door as well.


As a side/related question: Would Freedom of Movement allow you to walkt through a force cage?


I disagree. Forcecage can be devastating. Perhaps I don't have enough evidence to support that, I have only dealt with forcecage once in PF.

Last week our party was in a hallway 10 ft wide, about 15 ft tall. We were trying to talk it out with our enemy, talking failed and they cast forcecage. In the front was the rogue and the barbarian, the rogue succeeded on the save, the barbarian didn't. The rogue got swarmed by baddies, but was able to use slippers of spider climb to walk over the cage along the wall. The wizard was able to cast a few spells before a baleful polymorph took him out. The rest of the party tried to hide behind the cage, waiting for the enemies to come at the,, or the cage to end. The barbarian tried to smash his way out, but it proved futile. The force cage neutralized the barbarian and nearly nearly killed the rogue.


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Jay the Madman wrote:

I disagree. Forcecage can be devastating. Perhaps I don't have enough evidence to support that, I have only dealt with forcecage once in PF.

Last week our party was in a hallway 10 ft wide, about 15 ft tall. We were trying to talk it out with our enemy, talking failed and they cast forcecage. In the front was the rogue and the barbarian, the rogue succeeded on the save, the barbarian didn't. The rogue got swarmed by baddies, but was able to use slippers of spider climb to walk over the cage along the wall. The wizard was able to cast a few spells before a baleful polymorph took him out. The rest of the party tried to hide behind the cage, waiting for the enemies to come at the,, or the cage to end. The barbarian tried to smash his way out, but it proved futile. The force cage neutralized the barbarian and nearly nearly killed the rogue.

I would argue that in this scenario, several lower level spells would have been more effective. For instance, Wall of Stone between the rogue and barbarian and the rest of the party. It would allow no save(as you aren't entrapping them in it) and would have allowed the baddies to fight half your party. Wall of Force would have accomplished the same thing(and would have been equally unbreakable.

Note: The question isn't whether force cage is useless. It certainly does do things. The question is whether its on par with other 7th level spells.


johnlocke90 wrote:


I would argue that in this scenario, several lower level spells would have been more effective. For instance, Wall of Stone between the rogue and barbarian and the rest of the party. It would allow no save(as you aren't entrapping them in it) and would have allowed the baddies to fight half your party.

But Barbarian would just Kool-aid man through a Stone wall, "Oh yeah!"

Quote:


Wall of Force would have accomplished the same thing(and would have been equally unbreakable.

You do realize in PF, they nerfed Wall of Force so you can break it.

"It can be damaged by weapons and supernatural abilities, but a wall of force has hardness 30 and a number of hit points equal to 20 per caster "
That is nothing to a Barbarian by 13th level.


Starbuck_II wrote:
johnlocke90 wrote:


I would argue that in this scenario, several lower level spells would have been more effective. For instance, Wall of Stone between the rogue and barbarian and the rest of the party. It would allow no save(as you aren't entrapping them in it) and would have allowed the baddies to fight half your party.

But Barbarian would just Kool-aid man through a Stone wall, "Oh yeah!"

Quote:


Wall of Force would have accomplished the same thing(and would have been equally unbreakable.

You do realize in PF, they nerfed Wall of Force so you can break it.

"It can be damaged by weapons and supernatural abilities, but a wall of force has hardness 30 and a number of hit points equal to 20 per caster "
That is nothing to a Barbarian by 13th level.

Wall of force has the exact same hardness and hp as a forcecage.

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