Season 4 Faction Goals - are players doing them?


GM Discussion

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/5

Back in August I started an advice thread on the faction goals listed in the (then) new guide:

Quote:
Alternatively, beginning with Season 4, each faction has a specific goal it hopes to achieve by the end of the season. A PC who undertakes a creative approach to forward this goal outside of the prescribed faction mission may earn 1 Prestige Point for doing so in place of the Prestige Point gained for the assigned faction mission, at the GM’s discretion.

Now that we're about halfway through season 4, I'm interested to know if players at your tables have made use of this way of earning their prestige point, and what sort of things have been tried.

I can't recall anyone doing so at one of my tables; I think this is a combination of:
- Having many new players, so sticking to running the lowest tier (which rules out most season 4 scenarios)
- Ignorance of this new way of earning prestige
- Seeing the normal faction mission as the easier option
- Scenarios that are quite tightly bound, e.g. Severing Ties and The Disappeared, where the players don't see many options to get creative.

3/5

It's a big zero for me as well. The faction missions are so way off base from their faction descriptions, that a lot of characters only worry if we have a rogue in the party to get theirs done in the first place. I've, and none of my regulars, have ever heard of this umbrella goal that could conveniently give players a chance at still earning their PP.

Sovereign Court 4/5

I haven't seen anyone trying to achieve their faction missions the alternative way. It might be good to have a faction mission that lacks the said mission, forcing the characters to do it the alternative way. ;)

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/5

shadowmage75 wrote:
I've, and none of my regulars, have ever heard of this umbrella goal that could conveniently give players a chance at still earning their PP.

The goals are on page 19 of the latest version of the Guide (v4.3). The details I pasted above are on page 26.

2/5

I have had a go at them couple times.

In

Severing Ties:
when we rescued the people at the Besmaran church I told them that stuff like this happens in a hive of scum and villainy like Riddleport but in a civilized city like Korvose there's law and order protecting people.

And in

Golemworks Incident:
I kept lobbying for Sheila to switch from the unreliable Golemworks products to the 100% reliable infernal aid of Acadamae products.

Ended up acing the real faction mission both times I think so it didn't really come up if what I did was enough to score the point.

5/5

Unfortunately in the Boston area our venture captain has requested a hold on season 4 scenarios until after Total Con next month. But before that happened my Witch used his ability to forge documents to frame the Aspis Consortium for all kinds of things. Nothing like a little planted evidence to make the authority figures not like you.

Dark Archive 4/5

I haven't seen a ton of this, but the bits I have seen players try have been a lot of fun. I like it, as it gives the players a chance to get off the "black and white" of the printed adventure. They've expressed that it helps them feel like they're a bigger part of the world, and gives them better stories to take out of the adventure.


I'm always a bit leery about "GM's discretion" stuff, so I generally steer away from it if I have a chance.

2/5

I would add that this threads needs another facet "Are Gms letting players use them?"

As a player, I tried once at a con when they came out with a fairly experienced Gm, who was also a VO, and was rebuffed when I asked for prestige for my efforts. The Gm said that these faction goals were just a role playing aid or something like that.

I was annoyed that my cool plan and nice rolls didn't get me anything, so I didn't ever try again. It seemed like a waste of time.

As a GM I'm not adverse to someone using the goals, but I think this is something GMs need to encourage if we wish for this to actually be used.

1/5 Contributor

2 people marked this as a favorite.

This thread doesn't make a lot of sense to me. For your players to be making these attempts wouldn't they have had to have read the Guide to Organized Play? [/at-least-somewhat-justified-woe-is-me-snark]

Silver Crusade 4/5

I actually forgot about this stuff, which sucks because I actually failed my faction missions in two season 4 scenarios this past weekend at Winter War. I think if I'd thought about it, there may have been ways for me to try and get the prestige point anyway by working on the faction goals.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 *

I have the goals printed out and attached to the front of my GM screen, and point them out every time I run a Season 4 scenario. Unfortunately, a lot of my players are new enough not to really understand what many of those really mean, and most of the others are fairly adept at completing the written missions, so don't have a real reason to try.

Grand Lodge 3/5 5/55/55/5

Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I'll admit that as a fairly regular forum-troll, I was surprised about this. I am definitely going to make a point of trying to point this out to my little community - particularly with how excited I am for the current batch of Season 4 stuff coming up!

2/5 *

I've seen the season 4 goals reached, but only from experienced players or when the GM points it out explicitly. The season objectives are buried in the OP guide (most players only skim it).

Often the player will complete all missions, so it's not really a factor in gaining more PP. Still, I like it.

The Exchange 2/5 RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, Contributor

My concern here is two-fold:

If a player sees a faction mission they feel is too difficult, they can sub-in a skill they are better at. Essentially, all faction missions are now based on their favorite skill or trick or tactic which pretty much eliminates any chance of failure. So you have bards who think they can stand on the corner and use Perform (Oratory) to accomplish all their faction missions.

Second, when the player does bring up his contrived "My favorite skill always works for faction missions schtick", the GM has to make a judgment call which the player then argues with.

I haven't had a player bring this up and I hope they don't, it's an idea I really like, but IMO way too easy to abuse.


Dennis Baker wrote:

My concern here is two-fold:

If a player sees a faction mission they feel is too difficult, they can sub-in a skill they are better at. Essentially, all faction missions are now based on their favorite skill or trick or tactic which pretty much eliminates any chance of failure. So you have bards who think they can stand on the corner and use Perform (Oratory) to accomplish all their faction missions.

Hmmm...Profession (faction mission accomplisher) is sounding pretty good right now!

Shadow Lodge 3/5

I haven't tried either; it's too much effort on both the player's part and the GM's part for an attempt at doing something that's not part of the main mission and that you have no good idea whether it'll even work.

Essentially you're risking everyone's time on something that doesn't have a great chance of success. Both the player and every GM you play with needs to be able to correctly interpret what you're doing as part of the faction goal.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

Holy crap, I'd forgotten all about them. I wish there were a one-line reminder to the GM at the end of scenarios by the faction mission recaps that stated, "Alternately, players may earn 1 PP by completing an event that satisfies their faction's season 4 goal."

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 ***

I have not push then, nor have I had any players actively try to promote their seasonal goals. I guess I need to be more active in making them available to the players before the session starts and reminding them to remember the goals during play.

Sovereign Court 4/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.

One time in Magnimar, Gloriana Morilla sent me on a mission that was not befitting of her at all--more like one of those awful Jacquo Dalsine "Fetch me some teacups and also I want to have a torrid love affair with poison" missions. So I intentionally refused her and used my skill at matchmaking to arrange some political alliances tying Magnimar's noble families to Taldor's. I figured if the brutish Andoran barbarian was going to a dinner party at that point in the scenario, why shouldn't I? I later found the poison mold she wanted but just didn't gather it. She should be ashamed of herself for that mission; I thought she was bringing a change to Taldor.

4/5

Other than what I did as Cordelia, the only factions I've seen do their alternate goal have been ones with missions to screw over the Aspis Consortium in particular ways. Players have come up with some pretty creative ways to do so (including Mahtobedis above who carries a stack of papers with collected Aspis signatures including Maiveer Sloane's as a MW tool for forging Aspis documents and then often fabricates evidence to pin all Pathfinder wrongdoing in the scenario on the Aspis in humorous ways--I don't think he's ever needed to do it for the prestige point).

The main reasons for not pursuing the goals (for people who know them and want to pursue them) are either that the scenario doesn't allow you a real chance to do so (some factions it's almost impossible to find something to do if it isn't specifically written in, like Osirion, others it depends on the scenario: for example Taldor can't do its mission in Sanos Abduction by any stretch of the imagination, Andoran can only do the meta-goal when able to influence Magnimar or Korvosa, etc) or that the players or GMs don't want to take up time in a timed slot RPing too much material that's outside the scenario. So far, I've played three scenarios in Season 4 and performed the season goal only once (as Cordelia), as for the other two my Andoran was in Riddleport and my Cheliax was not somewhere she could find out who was sabotaging Zarta.

Sovereign Court 1/5

Curious - I will have to look into this! I did not know about it.

2/5

Dennis Baker wrote:

My concern here is two-fold:

If a player sees a faction mission they feel is too difficult, they can sub-in a skill they are better at. Essentially, all faction missions are now based on their favorite skill or trick or tactic which pretty much eliminates any chance of failure. So you have bards who think they can stand on the corner and use Perform (Oratory) to accomplish all their faction missions.

Second, when the player does bring up his contrived "My favorite skill always works for faction missions schtick", the GM has to make a judgment call which the player then argues with.

I haven't had a player bring this up and I hope they don't, it's an idea I really like, but IMO way too easy to abuse.

This simply is not true. Many characters do not have a favorite shtick. Many are not good enough at skils to get one. Others have faction goals that do not align with their skills.

Honestly if people avoid these because bards have it too easy then there are serious problems as bards already have it too easy with prestige. Try being a fighter whose skills are swim and climb.

Liberty's Edge 3/5

One might hope that the bard would assist his fellows with their faction missions in much the same way that his fellows assist him with the more mundane task of killing everything in the scenario.

When I played in Feast of Sigils with my bard I completed the Andoran, Taldan, Shadow Lodge, Lantern Lodge, and Silver Crusade faction missions, as well as assisted with the Grand Lodge mission.

Of course, if you've got a mission that requires secrecy, then you're out of luck.

Silver Crusade 2/5

Totally forgot about this when I ran some Season 4 adventures. The problem is, some factions have a very vague goal and others have a very specific one ("prepare people to fight evil" vs "find information pertaining to a specific curse"). Silver Crusade members can accomplish theirs quite easily, while Osirion can hardly find anything that would work.

5/5

Rogue Eidolon wrote:

I don't think he's ever needed to do it for the prestige point).

Not yet anyway. I'm sure I'll have to come up with something more devious than forging some documents when the time comes. I'm thinking about staging a failed robbery attempt in Magnimar.

Use Alterself to disguise myself as not myself. I shall call myself the Kobold. Recruit some thugs to rob a high interest establishment, say the Golemworks. Come up with a plan that may work. Then as Hojo make sure they fail.

Bwhahahahaha

I don't this would be an alignment violation either. In fact I am bringing in unlawful elements of society by staging a sting operation.

3/5

I am exctatic about this. I think it's a perfect alternative, and I will be pointing this out to our players the next game session. Not only does it draw the player to think within their character/faction, its a second hope to faction missions outside their character's purview.

What? How am I supposed to craft traps and disable device as a cleric!?!)

5/5

Well you could always try and recruit that fighting NPC to spend some of his time drilling the local farmers in how to protect their farms from wild beasts.

4/5

shadowmage75 wrote:

I am exctatic about this. I think it's a perfect alternative, and I will be pointing this out to our players the next game session. Not only does it draw the player to think within their character/faction, its a second hope to faction missions outside their character's purview.

What? How am I supposed to craft traps and disable device as a cleric!?!)

Just remember--you an only do this with Season 4 scenarios, not earlier season scenarios.

Sovereign Court 5/5 5/5

Bob Jonquet wrote:
I have not push then, nor have I had any players actively try to promote their seasonal goals. I guess I need to be more active in making them available to the players before the session starts and reminding them to remember the goals during play.

I know Grikmet tried to do the Taldor goal during Terror at Whistledown which takes place in Varisia. I can't remember though if he had earned the two faction mission goals already or if the season mission was what got him two.

That's my only experience as a player or a GM in a season goal attempt.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, West Virginia—Charleston

DrSwordopolis wrote:
One might hope that the bard would assist his fellows with their faction missions in much the same way that his fellows assist him with the more mundane task of killing everything in the scenario.

Well, this is good to a point, but what about the factions that hate each other? Sczarni and Silver Crusade will never get along. Most of the countries have been at war with each other. Sometimes, aiding another faction doesn't really make sense in game, story-wise.*

(Note: I personally lessen my restrictions here with new players at the table.)

Dark Archive RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32

2 people marked this as a favorite.

In an effort to get players more involved with this mechanic, and as part of my convention prep, I've made these Season 4 Faction Goal Cards to hand-out to players at my tables

The artwork got a bit blurry by loading them to Google Docs, but the cards are 2in x 3in (the size of a Dymo label)

4/5

At the con I attended last week, I intentionally made a point to tell my players that these alternatives existed, and most of them were unaware they did. If they wanted to know more I gave them a print out for their faction of the Season 4 faction goals that I posted here last month (not quite as elegant as what you did Justin, nice job).

Only one person made use of this alternative method, but I thought he did a great job with it.

Green Market:
The Taldor mission requires three successful DC 20 Bluff checks, and you fail outright if you miss a check by more than 5, which is what happened. After defeating the Aspis Consortium thugs, the Taldor PC was not only merciful, he actually gave the mercenaries (not Narris the sorcerer)30 gold and did a masterful job of talking-up the greatness of Taldor, finally encouraging them to go and spread the word to others. They were utterly won over, practically begging for Taldor to annex Korvosa. This to me was a perfect example of someone furthering the larger goals of Season 4.

Scarab Sages 5/5

DrSwordopolis wrote:

One might hope that the bard would assist his fellows with their faction missions in much the same way that his fellows assist him with the more mundane task of killing everything in the scenario.

When I played in Feast of Sigils with my bard I completed the Andoran, Taldan, Shadow Lodge, Lantern Lodge, and Silver Crusade faction missions, as well as assisted with the Grand Lodge mission.

Of course, if you've got a mission that requires secrecy, then you're out of luck.

Actually, I have often assisted others in small matters that require a bit of discression. If the individual requesting the help is willing to pay for a scroll of Modify Memory - we can ensure that the only person who knows about the events is the requester.

Bard that hands out writen contracts offering assistance - and points out that she can cast Modify Memory. One player even commented during a second game, "I need to thank you for your help during... ah, never mind you don't remember anyway." The other players rolled their eyes at us and tried to figure what was up! very funny!

1/5

Wasn't aware you could do this. Never heard it mentioned by a player or a GM...

Liberty's Edge 3/5

Katisha wrote:


Actually, I have often assisted others in small matters that require a bit of discretion. If the individual requesting the help is willing to pay for a scroll of Modify Memory - we can ensure that the only person who knows about the events is the requester.

Bard that hands out written contracts offering assistance - and points out that she can cast Modify Memory. One player even commented during a second game, "I need to thank you for your help during... ah, never mind you don't remember anyway." The other players rolled their eyes at us and tried to figure what was up! very funny!

.... That's bloody brilliant. I hadn't thought of that. I think I'll have to borrow that one.

Community / Forums / Organized Play / GM Discussion / Season 4 Faction Goals - are players doing them? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in GM Discussion