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I'm in the beginning stages of planning a campaign that is, by-and-large, a mad science/magic prison break. The dungeon is heavily based on Heterodyne Castle of Girl Genius fame, which means I can justify the presence of a good number of magic items and such that the party would like/need to acquire. (Need a bag of holding? Oh yeah, the wizard in that lab over there made one...before the accident...)
What I cannot justify, however, is the logic of gold. In an environment where 95% of the people do not expect to see the outside world again, it simply doesn't make sense that money would hold the same value within its walls. But I don't want to completely screw over the party in terms of wealth per level.
I'd very much like to find a logical system of commodity-based trading that would fit much better in the setting so as to not replace the concept of gold entirely. But I have no idea how to start doing this. Any ideas or advice?
That was my initial thought, yes. =) Trying to think of a decent variety of commodities that would be in relative demand so I don't just give up and have hidden caches of smokes in every wall.
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You know, something to consider:
Just because someone who's stuck in a prison wouldn't have a use for gold doesn't mean that gold necessarily would lose it's value as a trading commodity.
Take the US dollar for example. It's a worthless piece of cloth. It has absolutely no value. But because the US government says that it's worth 1 dollar, and we all accept that and therefore, the system works.
What makes a commodity like money work is not so much the inherent value of the thing itself, but rather that EVERYONE accepts it for the value that is.
Take Fallout. They trade in Fallout using Bottlecaps because it's hard to forge them in the fallout universe. A bottlecap by itself is a worthless piece of aluminum. But because I can go to a store in fallout and give someone 20 bottle caps for something and that guy knows that he can go to another person and give HIM 20 bottle caps for something, the system works.
Gold in your game should therefor work the same way. As long as 20 gold pieces means the same thing to everyone, even if no one has any actual use for the gold itself, they can still barter on equal terms using the common currency. The system only breaks down if some people refuse to accept the currency.
that all being said, I like the Cigarette idea too. Just trying to point out that gold wouldn't necessarily lose it's value.
Hmmm, in such an environment I could still see precious metals and gems being of high value. Not necessarily the coin form but the raw material. You need gold, silver, paltinum to hold the magical energies.
Gems for the same reason. You can't make your mechanical dumophlague without a opal in the optical receptacle.
So coins would still have value for their base metal. But as for what the pcs could find:
scraps of rare metals, like orichalcum, adamantite, mithril nuggets.
powders, gems, spell components might shoot up in value as well.
@Elamdri - I've thought about that. It would still be valuable, but if I'm a fence stuck inside walls I'm never getting out of...would I rather have money I can't spend or a shiny toy that'll do me some good?
I might keep gold as an option in general but have a number of NPCs sneer at the idea of it and ask for, say, moonshine or something instead.
At this point, I'm really not sure what route I'll take with this and am just exploring my options.
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I like the favor system better, really. A population of criminals may very well eschew society's standards of trade, and refuse to use such.
As well, money is a form of standardized bartering. I don't see a whole lot of trading of commodities in a prison population. Favors are much more likely to be the commodity traded for, and used. Especially in a labyrinth like Heterodyne Castle, where having someone owe you a favor can easily mean the difference between life or death (like when you get the guy who owes you favors, to go into the highly dangerous deathtrap laboratory so you don't have to*).
*This is probably how the player characters would get started, in fact. If someone higher up wants them to go into the recently-discovered monster-infested wing in order to pick them up a few globes of electrically-charged blue chemical, well, then that higher-up will owe them a favor, right? The fact that the party came out of the experience with some neat gear and singed eyebrows is completely besides the point -- they've started their accounts in the favor bank.
And for added fun, make a real favor bank -- a prisoner with an eidetic memory whose only job is to maintain a constant tally of who owes who. This way later on you can have the bankguy disappear into the labyrinth, and have the PCs go rescue him, earning his favor -- possibly wiping out debts owed.
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Couldn't the guards use gold outside? If so, then gold could still be valuable to prisoners because they could use it to buy off the guards.
Oh, I'm certain they could. However, this isn't so much a traditional prison as it is a drop off the prisoners and hope they don't kill each other too badly style. The guards are mostly there to stand at the entrance and hit you with a ray of enfeeblement or antimagic field so you can be safely escorted inside. After that, well, no more problem.
Of course, this'll be a huge problem for the town if the prison ever does get broken, and all of these ne'er-do-wells escape...but that's what we call "New campaign! Roll up a new character to fix the mess your old ones made."
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I like the favor system better, really. A population of criminals may very well eschew society's standards of trade, and refuse to use such.
As well, money is a form of standardized bartering. I don't see a whole lot of trading of commodities in a prison population. Favors are much more likely to be the commodity traded for, and used. Especially in a labyrinth like Heterodyne Castle, where having someone owe you a favor can easily mean the difference between life or death (like when you get the guy who owes you favors, to go into the highly dangerous deathtrap laboratory so you don't have to*).
*This is probably how the player characters would get started, in fact. If someone higher up wants them to go into the recently-discovered monster-infested wing in order to pick them up a few globes of electrically-charged blue chemical, well, then that higher-up will owe them a favor, right? The fact that the party came out of the experience with some neat gear and singed eyebrows is completely besides the point -- they've started their accounts in the favor bank.
And for added fun, make a real favor bank -- a prisoner with an eidetic memory whose only job is to maintain a constant tally of who owes who. This way later on you can have the bankguy disappear into the labyrinth, and have the PCs go rescue him, earning his favor -- possibly wiping out debts owed.
This I really like.
I'll probably end up using a hybrid - some NPCs will want money, some'll want your gems, and some just want you to owe them one. I'll see how each goes once play starts and adapt from there.
Simpler =/= better/more interesting =)
At that point it's just basically money renamed. "This gem/bar is worth X GP. I need Y of them to make Z item, plus W more for my time/labor."
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Liquor, candy, tobacco, food, silk, etc. are always good for trading. Just make sure that your PCs understand this from the start.
Speaking as a player when this game gets going, I lean more toward the favor option and scrapping money entirely. Think there's not much more simple than "do this and you get this/get a favor from me later" or "I'll trade my weapon for your armor" or whatnot. Then "What is it worth" never becomes a factor.
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The priviledge thing could be fun too. Heck, if it's enough like the Heterodyne castle, the dungeon itself could be the bank keeper - and granter of favors. "I like you, funny little man, and you got my thingamabobber almost working again, so you're useful. I'll send Bob Five Fing-er-Four Fingers to check the mechanical stink bug cage locks today."
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+ Favors! If you have a barter trade system, just make sure that you calculate the value of items that the party has vs. wealth table/ level. If you end up light on the loot side of things, let the PCs rep cover the difference in cost. If you end up on the outside and find yourself in need of some cash, then some of your more honorable inmates can arrange for remaining debts to be settled by outside networks, such as friends, partners, families, or guilds.
Reverse of that last point, keep detailed notes about factions because its possible that they may come afoul of friends, partners, families, and guilds of NPCs that they moved against while in the big house.
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See, favors also have different layers of power, too. It's not necessarily who you did the favor for -- it's also who HE is, and who he knows. Doing a favor for Dr. Schwartzheimer the mad spark is all well and good, but everyone knows Dr. Schwartheimer is a nut who's only good for a laugh on Mystery Meat Pie Day. But when Reaper, the guy who everyone fears, owes you a favor, then you're Someone. And when you manage to wheedle a favor out of crime lord Mister Drumhead, the guy with all those contacts on the outside, well, you've hit the big time for sure.
In fact, when you have a crime lord owing you a favor, that's when you can start affecting the guards and the administration of the prison. Because guys like that have influence outside of the prison.
This takes a bit of preparation on the part of the GM, as you need to know who's who in the prison, and what they can do for the PCs, as well as what their level of scope is. Dr. Schwartzheimer might not know anyone special and may have no influence, but his skill in identifying magic items is invaluable for a team of salvagers. Reaper might not have useful skills, but everyone knows he's a certified Bad Ass, and they'll think twice about pissing off the guys who did Reaper that favor. And of course Mister Drumhead might not have the skills of the mad Doctor or the reputation of Reaper, but he's the one with the organization Outside. You know, the guy who can make the Warden do what you want. But look at it this way: You get to have a large cast of extras, which only increases the verisimilitude.
With this sort of compensation, magic items aren't even considered treasure anymore -- they're just stuff you pick up to help you do your job better. It's the favors you're interested in, because if you amass enough of them, it'll be enough to Get You Out.
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Liquor, candy, tobacco, food, silk, etc. are always good for trading. Just make sure that your PCs understand this from the start.
Oh, definitely. I actually started this thread after talking with one of my players, and I'll likely leave it up to them as to whether we get a commodity swap system, favor bank, just keep gold, or do some odd mix of all of the above.
I'm trying to not just out and out reskin money and call it something special but actually have a setup that makes sense for the dungeon they're in, so I personally am leaning toward the favors option...if only because of how many plot hooks that could open up from that. But in the end...if the players ask me to switch back to just gp, I'll find a way to work it in.
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Another awesome side effect of favors is, they go both ways. if you owe someone a lot of favors, they're going to go a * little * out of their way to keep you around...at least until you've paid them back. And the pcs would go out of their way to keep those that owe them favors alive in the same way - as long as it's not TOO much trouble.
It can make for some really fun situations.
If you have to work the gold in, the prison uses the gold found / items traded to get supplies form the outside.
Now I'm imagining random coin-op slots at various points along the walls in all the hallways, some rooms, door locks, etc.
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"Would you like to enter the boss lair? Please roll to disable the traps on the door or insert 100pp to bribe them away."
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On a positive note, I now really want to run something like this. :)
Run something like this? Hell, I want to write something like this. Do up a custom AP, post it somewhere on the 'net...
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Thank you, everyone, for the timely feedback. You've given me plenty to work with and run by my players, and I'll see what option sounds the best to them.
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The players aren't mad scientists, right? Regardless, if you're a fan of Girl Genius, I suggest checking out Genius: The Transgression.
It could give you all sorts of inspiration, or just be a fun read.
https://sites.google.com/site/moochava/genius
I am leaving that up to the players, honestly. All they need is a reason they got thrown in there - could be mad scientists, could have just picked a bad neighborhood to rob.
Reputation might not be a bad thing to introduce...could probably work it similarly to the fame points from CoT.
Maybe have them have to roll knowledge nobility or local checks to ID who's who and who is best to score favours from.
Chalmers may be really good at offering the sun and moon, but when it comes time to deliver, he never does. "Here's that Sword of Brilliant Energy I owed you, I uh, forgot how to turn it on... good luck, gotta go, we're square now"
Bob may always fulfill his word, but his terms are always crafty: "Here's the two boats for your escape!" Then he hands them drawings he made of boats.
Keep in mind, these people are in prison for a reason, there's probably some fun conmen and swindlers. I'd hate to have racked up Chalmers owing me a thousand favours (at the expense of some other people in the prison), only to find out he's a schmuck and I threw my lot in with the wrong guy. It could add a fun layer of politics and subterfuge to things too!
If it helps at all, you can say that when you find a haul of several thousand gold pieces, much of it is gold bars. The system has in place trade goods and non-coin valuables, but, in my experience and of others I'm sure, PCs simply trade them for coin or gems.
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I'm in the beginning stages of planning a campaign that is, by-and-large, a mad science/magic prison break. The dungeon is heavily based on Heterodyne Castle of Girl Genius fame, which means I can justify the presence of a good number of magic items and such that the party would like/need to acquire. (Need a bag of holding? Oh yeah, the wizard in that lab over there made one...before the accident...)
What I cannot justify, however, is the logic of gold. In an environment where 95% of the people do not expect to see the outside world again, it simply doesn't make sense that money would hold the same value within its walls. But I don't want to completely screw over the party in terms of wealth per level.
I'd very much like to find a logical system of commodity-based trading that would fit much better in the setting so as to not replace the concept of gold entirely. But I have no idea how to start doing this. Any ideas or advice?
Used for raw materials. Bunches of silver bars or coins used to make silvered weapons. Gold as a conductor as you did say mad science.....and so on.
Remember: gold is still valuable because the people at the top of the food chain are using it to get the goods that are filtering down to everyone else by purchasing the stuff from the guards or what have you.
After all, how are items entering the prison economy? Cigarettes don't just materialize out of thin air (unless we're talking about casters...who probably require expensive spell components). They have to come INTO the system from OUTSIDE the system, and outside the system, gold has value. Most people who are bringing stuff into the system have real access to the outside world, and therefore aren't dependent upon the same barter system the prison runs on, and ARE dependent upon the monetary system that most of the world adheres to.
Someone with a green thumb and/or secret garden and/or means of sneaking in fresh fruit/vegetables may be considered a powerful and respected man in a place where stale porridge is served three times a day.