Taunt Mechanic Needed. Please post your Taunt Home Rules here


Homebrew and House Rules


Title says it all. This thread is for those who like the idea of a Taunt Mechanic. I'd like to compare some rules that I'm tossing around with others, hopefully to improve up on them.

Any Critiques should be in the vein of improving a given idea; please don't post comments that this is a "bad" idea, or that it "ruins" Pathfinder :P This is a homebrew/house rule thread, it will work for the table at which its utilized.

Paulcynic's Beta Taunt Rules wrote:

Intercept: Whenever you gain an Attack of Opportunity against a moving foe, you may choose to Intercept. You engage the target in such a way that it feels unable to move further. The foe must have moved at least one square, and if your Intercept is successful it ends its move action in the square at which you intercepted.

Taunt: As a Standard Action, you may catch the attention of one target within one Move action, or 30', which ever is greater. By engaging this target in such a way that it feels unable to engage anyone else on the battlefield, you make an Intimidate check (DC 10 plus 1/2 Target's Hit Dice plus Sense Motive or Wis mod). If you succeed, the target becomes Fixated on you.

Fixate: Fixate is a Condition. Fixated creatures ignore all but a single target, directing all of its attacks against this target if able; gaining a +2 Circumstance bonus to Attacks against this target, but suffer a -2 AC penalty from other attackers. Fixated creatures will move to within 30' of the taunter, getting into a reasonable striking range. After the first round of being Fixated it may attempt to move out of line of sight, but only if cover or concealment can be found w/in 30'. Fixation is broken, and this condition ends anytime the creature is attacked by, or receives damage from any source, when the target they are fixated on is healed by an ally, or when line of sight is broken.

Grand Lodge

Intercept: Seems like it should be the next teir of the Stand Still feat.

Taunt: That DC (10 + 1/2 level + Sense Motive or Wis Mod) seems a little extreme. Maybe DC 10+ 1/2 level + Wis mod or DC 10 + Sense Motive Mod which ever is better.

Fixate: I'd make it last 1 round + 1 additional round for each 5 you beat the DC by. And then use feats to increase the duration and effect (ala the Dirty Trick feats).

I find mocking their parentage usually gets me this result as well and it requires less dice rolling.


While I like the idea of some taunt mechanic I don't think your way is the right one. Or at least not one I would like to go.

I have seen a lot of GMs seen attacking those who hurts the monster the most (at least stupid monsters do so.) and I sometimes do this myself. So why not make a feat that counts your damage done or debuffs applied as 1.5 times higher/worse when determaining who will be attacked.
Perhaps with an follow up feat increasing this to twice.


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Have you taken a look at the Antagonize feat from Ultimate Magic. It seems similar to what you are looking for, or could at least give you a baseline to work from.


Kevtor wrote:
Have you taken a look at the Antagonize feat from Ultimate Magic. It seems similar to what you are looking for, or could at least give you a baseline to work from.

Antagonize:
Antagonize

Whether with biting remarks or hurtful words, you are adept at making creatures angry with you.

Benefit: You can make Diplomacy and Intimidate checks to make creatures respond to you with hostility. No matter which skill you use, antagonizing a creature takes a standard action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity, and has a DC equal to 10+ the target's Hit Dice + the target's Wisdom modifier. You cannot make this check against a creature that does not understand you or has an Intelligence score of 3 or lower. Before you make these checks, you may make a Sense Motive check (DC 20) as a swift action to gain an insight bonus on these Diplomacy or Intimitade checks equal to your Charisma bonus until the end of your next turn. The benefits you gain for this check depend on the skill you use. This is a mind-affecting effect.

Diplomacy: You fluster your enemy. For the next minute, the target takes a –2 penalty on all attacks rolls made against creatures other than you and has a 10% spell failure chance on all spells that do not target you or that have you within their area of effect.

Intimidate: The creature flies into a rage. On its next turn, the target must attempt to make a melee attack against you, make a ranged attack against you, target you with a spell, or include you in the area of a spell. The effect ends if the creature is prevented from attacking you or attempting to do so would harm it (for example, if you are on the other side of a chasm or a wall of fire). If it cannot attack you on its turn, you may make the check again as an immediate action to extend the effect for 1 round (but cannot extend it thereafter). The effect ends as soon as the creature attacks you. Once you have targeted a creature with this ability, you cannot target it again for 1 day.

I didn't know that it existed :) Thank you for the link. I have a couple of issues with it. It is Mind-affecting, so about half of the creature types are immune, and it can only affect a creature once every 24 hours, and even then it lasts only 1 round.

It is definitely Pathfinder's version of Taunt, though I was thinking something more along the lines of a specialized combat role for heavily defensive types. Antagonize doesn't allow the level of control I was hoping for.


Well this can be looked at as an example of roleplaying vs mechanics. (Fluff vs crunch if you will)

There have been plenty of times that I have had an NPC target an ally for bantering back and forth with them or when they deal an especially telling blow to them (Oh wow! That guy's dangerous!).

Just food for though: do we need mechanics for it?


Scott_UAT wrote:

Well this can be looked at as an example of roleplaying vs mechanics. (Fluff vs crunch if you will)

There have been plenty of times that I have had an NPC target an ally for bantering back and forth with them or when they deal an especially telling blow to them (Oh wow! That guy's dangerous!).

Just food for though: do we need mechanics for it?

See my request in the OP to not derail thread ;) Thanks.

Verdant Wheel

for starters, i think any taunt mechanic in PF ought to utilize all three social skills: Intimidate, Diplomacy, and Bluff

second, how tied are you, Paulcynic, to a taunt mechanic that forces an action rather than using mechanical incentives?

if you are of the opinion that a taunt mechanic must force an action, like a Domination spell, then how is that not a mind-affecting effect?

(i understand your exclusivity concern - since this is homebrew, we can create our own wriggle-room)

finally, if the idea of using mechanical incentives (and disincentives) appeals to you, how do we craft one that encompasses multiple strategies (like against casters vs martials)?


This is the taunt skill from the Everquest d20 Player's Handbook, slightly modified for pathfinder. You may want to give it a decent rewrite.

taunt:

Taunt (cha)
untrained
Taunting is the art of angering and annoying opponents so that they attack you in preference to all other opponents, even if that's a tactically unwise decision for them.
Check: A Taunt check is opposed by the target's Sense Motive Check. Favorable and unfavorable circumstances weigh heavily on the outcome of a taunt check. Four circumstances can work against the taunter: 1) the target is already attacking someone else; 2) the target is of animal intelligence or lower (Int 2 or less); 3) the target is above animal intelligence but cannot understand the taunter (for example, it does not speak the same language); or 4) the target realizes that attacking the taunter may be tactically unwise. Each of these circumstances adds a bonus to the Sense Motive check of the creature being taunted, as listed below.

Target's Conditions / Sense Motive Bonus
Attacking someone else +10
Animal Intelligence +5
Doesn't understand Taunt +5
Tactically unwise +10

Taunting is a move action. A successful Taunt check indicates that the target might move toward the taunter- depending on the target's intelligence and ranged attack options- but certainly focuses all of its attacks on the taunter for 1 round (and [possibly longer if it closes to melee). The target attacks the taunter as intelligently and effectively as it can, but if it knows it cannot attack him, it is likely to ignore the taunt. Targets affected by more than one characters' Taunt skill will attack the character who taunted them most recently. If the taunter damages a target on the same round he tries to taunt it, he receives a +5 circumstance bonus to his Taunt check.

For example, Karesh, a warrior with Charisma 16 and 8 ranks in Taunt, sees a wolf attacking her wizard companion 75 feet away. She knows she can't reach the wolf in one round, so she tries to goad the wolf into coming to her instead. Karesh first fires an arrow at the wolf to get its attention, striking it for 7 points of damage; she then makes a Taunt check, rolling a 9 and adding her Taunt bonus of +11 and her +5 circumstance bonus for having damaged the wolf this round, for a total of 25. However, the wolf gains +10 to its Sense Motive check because it is already fighting something else, +5 for not understanding Karesh's taunts, and another +5 because of its animal intelligence; the gm rolls a 6 on the wolf's Sense Motive check, so, with its =20 bonus (and +1 for its Wisdom score), it gets a total of 27. The wolf keeps attacking the wizard. If karesh had rolled an 11 or higher, the wolf would turn to attack her instead, most likely for the remainder of the combat (unless it were then taunted by someone else).

Creatures flatly unwilling to fight, such as pacifistic or incapable creatures, or those that are currently routing or fleeing, are unaffected by any use of the Taunt skill. Further, creatures immune to mind-affecting effects are immune to Taunt, although certain intelligent monsters that are technically immune might well choose to attack an impertinent taunter.

Retry: sometimes continuing to taunt a creature after a failed attempt is irritating enough to be more effective. In general, a character may retry the taunt skill freely each round, and may even take 10 or 20 on the check given enough time.

Special: a character with 5 or more ranks in Animal Empathy gets a +2 synergy bonus on Taunt Checks involving animals. A character with 9 or more ranks in Animal empathy gets a +2 synergy bonus on taunt checks involving beasts. A character with 5 or more ranks in Undead Empathy gets a +2 synergy bonus on Taunt checks involving the undead.

I would give certain classes bonuses with different types of creatures. Rangers would get their favored enemies, Fighters would get extra bonuses in general. Pallys for evil, or evil outsiders. That can replace the synergy bonuses. Not sure on the Undead empathy, maybe necromancers? can't see many that would want to use it though (Everquest has a Shadow Knight, little anti-paladin that can use it).

I would eliminate the Animal Intelligence penalty or lower it; I work with many animals (grew up on a farm) in RL, and they are pretty damn good at understanding when people or other animals are threatening to them.

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