Ezio Auditore... how would I build him?


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I made Ezio an Acrobat Rogue. Ezio is also not good. He sought personal goals of revenge.


Who says revenge can't be a good thing?


It's a selfish motive to kill even if the people he does kill deserve it.


So? He learns from the experience and starts following the tenets of his order with the intention of safeguarding the freedom and wellbeing of mankind.

Even if he didn't start out good he ended up that way.


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I played Assassin's Creed and feel Ezio is neutral evil, he kills people for money, paid for by the Medici, kills for revenge, could argueably kill innocents (Hey those guards are just doing thier job and shoving them off a multistory building ain't nice, especially when they beg not to be. Shove civilians into water who...apparently can't swim. Steal from civilians. Kill runners just doing thier job, kill thieves. Amourous when it comes to women...I mean he has a code of honor but really he ain't a 'good' guy.


Player characters kill for money all the time. it's just that instead of being paid upfront, they collect their fee from the deceased.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I made him a paladin once. What is Eagle Vision if not Detect Evil? ;-)


The ninja trick 'wall climber' seems like the most mandatory thing for the character.


DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:
I made him a paladin once. What is Eagle Vision if not Detect Evil? ;-)

I always figured it was more of an at-will custom spell that had "Detect Hostility" and "Detect Significance" effects.


DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:
I made him a paladin once. What is Eagle Vision if not Detect Evil? ;-)

I thought it was really just a gameplay mechanic to help the player, maybe handwaved by being an effect of the animus, not the assassin's actual vision going all dark and highlighting people in red and gold.


He's certainly no rogue....you know, because hes actually good at killing stuff.


I never meant to state that he was evil, just that he is not "good". I made him Chaotic Nuetral. He does evil for the good of others. It's textbook CN.


Lumiere Dawnbringer wrote:
Player characters kill for money all the time. it's just that instead of being paid upfront, they collect their fee from the deceased.

He took money from the Medici to kill enemies of the Medici. Not even people involved with the Templars, just people Medici didn't like.


Sleet Storm wrote:
He's certainly no rogue....you know, because hes actually good at killing stuff.

Rogues are some of the most hardcore damage players in Pathfinder. Sneak attack damage gets massive.


Craig Frankum wrote:
Sleet Storm wrote:
He's certainly no rogue....you know, because hes actually good at killing stuff.
Rogues are some of the most hardcore damage players in Pathfinder. Sneak attack damage gets massive.

Correction, Rogues are some of the best "Wheee! Dice!" inducing characters in the game.

Sadly they lack a lot in the way of static bonuses which 90% of the time beat out Sneak Attack dice.


But are we talking 1st level or higher levels. No one is "good" at first level, but the higher you go, a rogue can take talents that turn all 1's & 2's into 3's. Pretty significant damage on a thought out strategic strike. Remember that the Assassin's Creed series cater's to all types of combatant (run & gun or stealth), but an the Creed prefer's its participants remain anonymous. In Pathfinder terms: leave no witnesses, at which point, you should have a pretty complete party; or stealth and strategic strikes to which you would kill from the shadows avoiding detection.


I'm talking EVERY level.

And no. I thought that too but that particular Rogue Talent (Powerful Sneak) requires a full-attack and also imparts an extra -2 penalty to-hit on every attack, and isn't that good of a bonus to begin with.

Let's say you've got a level 5 Barbarian with a Greatsword. He's got something like a 20 Str, 5 BaB, a +1 weapon, and Weapon Focus. That's +12 to-hit, +10 with Power Attack, and 2d6+14 damage. We had a similar Barbarian in our SS game and he was dealing 2d6+17 per swing at least on a Power Attack at that level, with a higher to-hit so that's definitely reasonable. I just can't remember what he did. So he deals minimum 16 damage, average of 21 or so.

Meanwhile your usual Rogue is going to be rockin' a Short Sword (1d8), 3 BaB, likely a lower Str score (we'll say 16 to be nice), and Sneak Attack. So he's got +8 to-hit with his weapon focus, +1 Short Sword, 3 BaB, and 3 Str mod. He's dealing 1d8+4 (I don't believe you can two-hand a Short Sword for extra), for a minimum of 5 and an average of 10 damage rounding up. Then he's got 3d6 Sneak Attack which ups his minimum damage to 8 and his average to about 21 (again rounding up).

Now, you might say (rounding up) "He's got the same average damage as the Barbarian!" which I suppose is technically true in the raw damage sense, but then he's probably got about 20 less HP, his minimum damage is barely a tickle, and he's got a -2 to-hit on the guy.

Then you factor in that Rogue Talent you wanted him to use, and he's rocking a whopping...6 to-hit. Yowch.

And I rounded down for the Barbarian.

And it only gets worse from there on out. Once he hits level 6 the Barbarian will be doubling his damage output (dem iteratives) and the gap only grows from there.


I'll admit that the rogue is not a straight up melee. Never has been, never said he was. He strikes from a flanking position or from hiding. both scenarios allow use of his sneak attack. Flanking gives you a +2 to attack rolls while the other scenario makes an opponent flat-footed. Both give the rogue an improved chance to hit his make. Also a short sword only deals 1d6. Weapon Finese should be taken by a rogue as generally it has a higher Dex than Str, average 18 for Dex and 12-14 Str. So the rogue is a conditional combatant that has potiential to do more damage than most other characters. Now since we are talking about Ezio, he's a rogue doing conditional damage all day long.


And if he's going the Weapon Finesse route with 18 Dex he'll have another +1 to-hit, but -1 damage. That coupled with the fact that I dun goofed on the Short Sword damage drops his average damage to 17 and his to-hit stays at somewhere between 7 and 9.

No, Ezio deals much more reliable damage than a Rogue. He's definitely a Ranger with Favored Enemy: Human and the Skirmisher archetype, who has a good Stealth score. Maybe a dip into Rogue (Roof Runner). Ezio has too many weapon proficiencies, too high of a hit rate, and too consistently high damage.


I just don't see it, but its an opinion, not a debate. I have no idea why I got so involved in the arguement. Apalogies.


Rynjin wrote:

And if he's going the Weapon Finesse route with 18 Dex he'll have another +1 to-hit, but -1 damage. That coupled with the fact that I dun goofed on the Short Sword damage drops his average damage to 17 and his to-hit stays at somewhere between 7 and 9.

No, Ezio deals much more reliable damage than a Rogue. He's definitely a Ranger with Favored Enemy: Human and the Skirmisher archetype, who has a good Stealth score. Maybe a dip into Rogue (Roof Runner). Ezio has too many weapon proficiencies, too high of a hit rate, and too consistently high damage.

He should getsome sort of sneak attack though and a good one, like a ninja or assassin death attack that can actually instantkill, and Rangers don't have that.

If you're going Skirmisher ranger though, also slap on the urban ranger archetype, because that is pretty much exactly how the Assassins' brand of stealth works.

Dark Archive

Once again I will throw the option of the Spell-less Ranger out there for all to read about. These are Rangers developed my Marc Radle from Kobold Publishing who give up spell-casting which Ezio or any assassin has, and gives them Hunter Tricks much like the Skirmisher, BUT as a bonus they also get Sneak Attack bonuses up to 4or6 d6, canot recall off the top of my head against Favored Enemies or while in Favored Terrains


Sorry to necro, but I have been working on a Brotherhood Assassin, too.

Race: Scion of Humanity Aasimar (gives the effect of a special human)
Class: Ninja

As Edward Kenway does, he dual-wields swords. I was thinking Wakizashi (for the stats, maybe flavor-adjust the appearance).

Eagle Vision: High Perception, but eventually the See the Unseen Master Trick would come into play. The Aasimar's darkvision helps a lot.

Hidden Blade: Hidden blades can't be thrown, and can't be dropped without taking the whole apparatus off, but neither can they be disarmed in combat - short of sundering them. Normally, it is a swift action to draw them, and a swift action to sheathe them. It's not a free action in the games, you actually have to draw and sheathe them, but the animation is faster than drawing or sheathing other weapons (which is why I think they are swift, if you equate drawing/sheathing other weapons as move actions). With some attacks (assassinations, be they while falling from above, from behind, etc.), drawing them is much faster, and I equate that to the free action draw as part of a move, if your BAB is at least +1.

The hidden blade sheathe, as a custom device, should be masterwork. The blade itself would be a dagger, nothing bigger (wands should be allowed). Pathfinder already has spring-loaded wrist sheathes (Adventurer's Armory, page 9, 5gp, swift to draw, full-round to sheathe) that can carry various objects (including wands), though a hidden blade shouldn't be able to carry anything but a dagger or a wand. Being a customization of the spring-loaded wrist sheath, making the sheathing action swift instead of full-round, it would necessarily have to be a masterwork device. It would have to take up the wrist slot. It provides no defensive bonuses (they aren't bracers/armor), but the mechanism itself isn't a weapon. Of the two masterwork prices, I would argue the lower price for armor (+150gp) should be sufficient for the changes to the standard spring-loaded wrist sheathe that I'm describing (the craft check for creating/repairing a hidden blade sheathe could be clockwork, leather, traps, locks, or any number of others). The dagger can't be thrown, being locked into the mechanism, thus removing the dagger's normal thrown weapon quality. The dagger can't be "dropped" (free action), it must be sheathed (swift action). The dagger can't be disarmed, short of sundering it. Also, you can't use the hand that is wielding the dagger for anything else. Basically, we'd be adding the locked gauntlet features (8gp, +10 to CMD vs. disarm, can't drop, can't use the hand for anything else), so adding the cost of the locked gauntlet makes sense.

Since a successful disarm against a dagger (or wand) attached to a hidden blade sheathe would technically sunder the dagger, I was thinking that disarming an attached dagger would work like this: The defender would get a +10 to CMD vs. disarm attempts. If an attacker succeeds in a disarm attempt, the defender would get the option of attempting a reflex save as an immediate reaction to sheathe the dagger. If the defender declines the reflex save, or the reflex save fails, the disarm attempt is resolved as a sunder attempt against the dagger, dealing damage to the blade instead of causing it to be dropped. If the save is successful, the defender succeeds in sheathing the dagger, and the attack is instead applied to the defenders AC (using the disarm attempt as the attack roll), and resolved as a normal attack.

Destroying the dagger (or wand) currently attached to a hidden blade sheathe also damages the sheathe, as the remnants of the attached item are typically retracted into the mechanism of the device, fouling the inner workings of the complex machinery. Repairing a hidden blade sheathe requires half the materials needed to create a new one, and requires a craft check at +5 (or +10?) vs. the DC to craft a new one. Once repaired, a new dagger (or wand) can be affixed to the sheathe.

Total cost of the hidden blade would be (masterwork: 150gp, spring-loaded wrist sheath: 5gp, locked gauntlet: 8gp) 165gp. Being a masterwork item, it should accept enhancements that normally would be applicable to wrist-slot items. Any dagger or wand can be attached to the hidden blade sheathe with no physical modification to the dagger or wand.

What do you think?


My bad. I was tired last night (and on a little bit of Vicodin for my back), so I accidentally mixed up some stuff. The hidden blade is actually this:

Quote:

The hidden blade sheathe, as a custom device, should be masterwork. The blade itself would be a dagger, nothing bigger (wands should be allowed). Pathfinder already has spring-loaded wrist sheathes (Adventurer's Armory, page 9, 5gp, swift to draw, full-round to sheathe) that can carry various objects (including wands), though a hidden blade shouldn't be able to carry anything but a dagger or a wand. Being a customization of the spring-loaded wrist sheath, making the sheathing action swift instead of full-round, it would necessarily have to be a masterwork device. It would have to take up the wrist slot. It provides no defensive bonuses (they aren't bracers/armor), but the mechanism itself isn't a weapon. Of the two masterwork prices, I would argue the lower price for armor (+150gp) should be sufficient for the changes to the standard spring-loaded wrist sheathe that I'm describing (the craft check for creating/repairing a hidden blade sheathe could be clockwork, leather, traps, locks, or any number of others). The dagger can't be thrown, being locked into the mechanism, thus removing the dagger's normal thrown weapon quality. The dagger can't be "dropped" (free action), it must be sheathed (swift action). The dagger can't be disarmed, short of sundering it. Also, you can't use the hand that is wielding the dagger for anything else. Basically, we'd be adding the locked gauntlet features (8gp, +10 to CMD vs. disarm, can't drop, can't use the hand for anything else), so adding the cost of the locked gauntlet makes sense.

A sunder attempt against the dagger (or wand) attached to the hidden blade sheathe that destroys the dagger attached to the sheathe also damages the sheathe, as the remnants of the attached item are typically retracted into the mechanism of the device, fouling the inner workings of the complex machinery. Repairing a hidden blade sheathe requires half the materials needed to create a new one, and requires a craft check at +5 (or +10?) vs. the DC to craft a new one. Once repaired, a new dagger (or wand) can be affixed to the sheathe.

Total cost of the hidden blade would be (masterwork: 150gp, spring-loaded wrist sheath: 5gp, locked gauntlet: 8gp) 165gp. Being a masterwork item, it should accept enhancements that normally would be applicable to wrist-slot items. Any dagger or wand can be attached to the hidden blade sheathe with no physical modification to the dagger or wand.

The part about the saves to avoid disarm, the personal risk to the Assassin, and the potential risk to the hidden blade, was a Brotherhood Assassin-only Ninja Trick I was designing. I accidentally mixed them up. :)


Forget human the guys half lemming considering the number of time he jumped to his death by leaping off at an angle I didn't want he may even be straight lemming.


Liam Warner wrote:
Forget human the guys half lemming considering the number of time he jumped to his death by leaping off at an angle I didn't want he may even be straight lemming.

One of the reasons I modeled mine after Edward Kenway instead. (AC4 wasn't out yet, when this thread was started.) Dual-wielding more than just the hidden blades is much more effective. :)


Just saying, but I find that a human fighter ninja works best. If you do it right, he should have a hand crossbow, hidden blades, throwing daggers, a long sword(not a short sword, for it is three feet long, not two), and a mithral chain shirt. At level 5(fighter 3, ninja 2), he should have the feats; Quick Draw, 2 weapon fighting, 2 weapon defense, toughness, and endurance. His ninja trick should be darkvision, so he can see in the dark (and do better on stealth checks in the dark), and he should be based on Cha, Str, and Dex. I also put him as CG, because his heart is in the right place(in Brotherhood, he is killing templars more than civilians), but he doesn't really follow a lot of laws, involving murder, jaywalking:) ,and running on rooftops.

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