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Sooo... apparently, WotC has partnered with OBS/DTRPG and some D&D PDFs are available for sale at www.dndclassics.com.
Any word on D&D PDFs coming back to Paizo? Dragon/Dungeon PDFs? Or is the WotC-OBS deal exclusive?
Hey, maybe they'll do Savage Tide if it gets popular enough?
Over at wizards' Legend & Lore announcing the pdfs http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4ll/20130122 they only mention drivethru and I don't see any available in the online store here.
Which is too bad, I had bought the majority of mine here in the past and it would be nice to know I could redownload them again in the future and more easily track what I have not yet gotten.
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I'd love to see these back on Paizo.com, and this is one of the first items on my to-do list this week. :)
Do you know if some of the compliations that are being released by WOTC/Hasbro for D and D will include the proto-APs from Dungeon?
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I don't know anything about what WotC is planning to do with their backstock, but many of the Dungeon-era adventure paths are still available in print or PDF here at Paizo.com.
Hmmm, I hope they contact y'all about bringing the pdfs back here. I purposely bought mine here to support Paizo and was very upset when I lost all that I bought.
As for where to find them over there, here's a link: http://www.dndclassics.com/ but the servers hammered with folks trying to get stuff before WotC changes its mind again.
I find it interesting that the 3.5e selection appears unchanged from the last time WotC was willing to sell PDFs. While they have evidently gone back to their 1e/2e catalog to make very old things available, they haven't done anything for products compatible with PFRPG.
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I find it interesting that the 3.5e selection appears unchanged from the last time WotC was willing to sell PDFs. While they have evidently gone back to their 1e/2e catalog to make very old things available, they haven't done anything for products compatible with PFRPG.
Well, I have a theory that what WotC is doing right now with 5E and whatanot is aimed primarily at 1E/2E players, who are intended target audience of D&DNext. The fact that D&D classics has some 60 PDFs for 1E/2E and half of that from 3E and 4E combined kind of plays into that, tinfoil hats be damned.
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I find it interesting that the 3.5e selection appears unchanged from the last time WotC was willing to sell PDFs. While they have evidently gone back to their 1e/2e catalog to make very old things available, they haven't done anything for products compatible with PFRPG.
They also have not reposted any of the Original D&D books. Sure, I'm one of maybe 20 people that really care, but they already had them scanned previously.
I find it interesting that the 3.5e selection appears unchanged from the last time WotC was willing to sell PDFs. While they have evidently gone back to their 1e/2e catalog to make very old things available, they haven't done anything for products compatible with PFRPG.Well, I have a theory that what WotC is doing right now with 5E and whatanot is aimed primarily at 1E/2E players, who are intended target audience of D&DNext. The fact that D&D classics has some 60 PDFs for 1E/2E and half of that from 3E and 4E combined kind of plays into that, tinfoil hats be damned.
Whilst I share your view on 5E's target market, this does seem a little tinfoilhatty to me. I would think it's more likely that they are slowly going to trickle out titles over the coming months and that they made sure they had a smattering of offerings from every edition. AD&D/2E combined was out for roughly twice as long as 3.5/4E wasnt it? If that's the case, a 2:1 ratio of PDFs at relaunch isnt that surprising.
FWIW, the number of titles currently listed are:
B/E - 12
1st Edition - 23
2nd Edition - 20
3rd Edition - 18
4th Edition - 9
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It looks like most of these are adventures.
Maybe I missed it but I think they do not yet have the 3.5 Players Handbook, nor the DMG or MM. Seems a little odd, especially since it had PHB2/DMG2/FF. They are the key to playing the game so maybe they are trying to avoid the corner stone being shared for free. Oh, wait! That corner stone already is free as the SRD. Funny how even with them being free in terms of the SRD, I would still want to buy them as PDF. That way, my wi-fi only tablet could still access them without them without wi-fi.
I am really tempted to buy the Expanded Psionics Handbook but I think that is also part of the SRD. I also already bought the PDF of Psionics Unleashed and the Ultimate Psionics Kickstarter PDF. I also still own my real books of The Expanded Psionics Handbook and Complete Psionic.
I am really tempted to buy the Expanded Psionics Handbook but I think that is also part of the SRD.
It is.
I'd love to see these back on Paizo.com, and this is one of the first items on my to-do list this week. :)
Liz, if you're able to snag them, will we have access to our previously-downloaded content again?
I found out that all my WotC purchases were through Paizo...
I don't have any information on any of these details, alas.
I don't have any information on any of these details, alas.
Fair enough. :)
It looks like most of these are adventures.
Maybe I missed it but I think they do not yet have the 3.5 Players Handbook, nor the DMG or MM. Seems a little odd, especially since it had PHB2/DMG2/FF.
Mike Mearls made a passing reference to the PDFs in his regular discussions about D&D:Next:
"We realize that some people like running classic adventures or playing earlier editions. We hope D&D Next meets your needs, but if you want to stick with the D&D you already know and love, then DrivethruRPG.com's ever-expanding library will have everything that you'll need."
so it sounds to me like the rules will be there eventually. I may be over-analysing it, but unfortunately (from snippets here and elsewhere) it's also kind of sounding like DrivethruRPG.com's deal is exclusive. :(
Maybe that's how they got it past Gorbacz's friend at WotC who thinks PDFs=piracy.
Dotting for interest. Myself, I plan to pick up all that I can before the pendulum swings the other way again. Not to say that it's inevitable, but you never know...
Very interesting~
I find it interesting that the 3.5e selection appears unchanged from the last time WotC was willing to sell PDFs. While they have evidently gone back to their 1e/2e catalog to make very old things available, they haven't done anything for products compatible with PFRPG.They also have not reposted any of the Original D&D books. Sure, I'm one of maybe 20 people that really care, but they already had them scanned previously.
I gather these are new scans, hyperlinked etc. and they will be adding more as they go. I hope they'll be available through Paizo myself, but we'll see. As for 3.5 stuff, they just reprinted the hard copies. The PDFs will probably be along in a bit. Myself, I'd like PDFs of my original edition books. I have several hardcopies (and PDF / deadtree of Swords and Wizardry) but they aren't getting any younger...
They aren't hyperlinked (the 1st edition ones, anyway). They're straight scans of the original hard copies.
They aren't hyperlinked (the 1st edition ones, anyway). They're straight scans of the original hard copies.
Too bad. I thought I read (EN World?) that they were. Oh, well. It's not like the original LBBs are all that big :)
I only have T1-4 and the GDQ series, so that's all I'm speaking of, but yeah straight scans. Back to pale blue "wraparound" maps. Hopefully they'll sort out a print on demand facility soonish..
As for original D&D (and chain mail):
this article says they are both on the way. Apparently they'll be releasing a batch of books every week, starting February the fifth.
Quite an interesting read. Unfortunately, it seems to suggest dndclassics is the only place to get them (not sure if that's just at the moment or forever though). Apparently, if you bought the titles from drivethrurpg or rpgnow then you should be able to access the updated scans as they are (re)released.
As for original D&D (and chain mail):
this article says they are both on the way. Apparently they'll be releasing a batch of books every week, starting February the fifth.
Quite an interesting read. Unfortunately, it seems to suggest dndclassics is the only place to get them (not sure if that's just at the moment or forever though).
Well, I prefer Paizo, but I'll pick them up where I can. My brother still runs a game based on the original LBBs / Greyhawk etc. While S&W is pretty close the original would be nice. Speaking of which, I wonder how this will effect the OSR, positive or negative? I'm thinking positive, but we'll see.
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They seem to be updating the listings fairly quickly. It went from a 1 page listing to a 5 page listing in 1 day. Too, some pdfs that I bought through DriveThruRPG have been updated and are now better quality than what I originally downloaded - and I didn't have to pay 1 red cent for what I already owned.
I'm optimistic and really hoping for the OD&D White Box and supplements.
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According to this article, Steve Wieck COO of OneBookShelf Inc, has stated that DriveThruRPG / RPGNow / DnDClassics (the frontend websites for OneBookShelf) will be the only place to buy such PDFs.
So great if you bought your PDFs from them previously as you gain access to previous purchases again (I have proven this), but not so good if you bought via Paizo.
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According to this article, Steve Wieck COO of OneBookShelf Inc, has stated that DriveThruRPG / RPGNow / DnDClassics (the frontend websites for OneBookShelf) will be the only place to buy such PDFs.
So great if you bought your PDFs from them previously as you gain access to previous purchases again (I have proven this), but not so good if you bought via Paizo.
So I'm getting kicked in my groins for buying PDFs from Paizo just because? Well, that's low. I've backed everything up, but I can imagine somebody who's now facing the prospect of re-purchasing everything. /golfclap WotC
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So I'm getting kicked in my groins for buying PDFs from Paizo just because? Well, that's low. I've backed everything up, but I can imagine somebody who's now facing the prospect of re-purchasing everything. /golfclap WotC
You did the correct thing and downloaded your purchases and backed them up.
Did Paizo promise that you would be able to download any purchases indefinitely? If so, perhaps Paizo are at fault for promising something they could not deliver?
If Paizo didn't make that promise, did they at least indicate that some PDFs may become unavailable preventing future download and that you should backup your files? If not (and I don't see such a statement / suggestion on the Downloads store page even after WotC pulled their PDFs) then perhaps Paizo should have done.
I know when I originally registered with DriveThruRPG I was informed I would get a limited number of downloads (I think it was originally 5) so I knew I had to backup my PDFs, and even now that limit has been relaxed the FAQs include the following:
How do I back up my ebooks?
You can back up ebooks simply by copying them to a secure location, burning them to a disc, or saving to a flash drive or external hard drive. If you lose your ebooks, you can generally download them again from your order history. Just log in and go to My Account and click on your order to view the order details and download links. We reserve the right not to replace lost books. So please back up your books!
That last sentence (emphasis is mine) is the clear advice that you may not be able to download your purchases in future so back them up!
So I think calling WotC "low" and implying that they have figuratively kicked you in the groin for buying PDFs from Paizo just because they now choose to go exclusively with OneBookShelf is a little unfair. I can see how it could be disappointing to those who purchased via Paizo, yes, but to make out its some evil intent on the big bad WotC is risible.
I don't believe they haven't chosen to go exclusively with OneBookShelf now "just because" or to intentionally piss of Paizo customers - more likely if they do still have any fears over PDF piracy, if they have a single retailer they have reduced the potential number of points at which a PDF could get into the wild.
OBS with its DriveThru and RPGNow sites is the main place to go for PDFs (if I could buy Paizo PDFs from there instead of Paizo, I would). The fact that they can also provide a personalised store front with just WotC products displayed (i.e. dndclassics.com) was also a great attraction (especially as existing OBS customers don't have to re-register as its just a new skin for the same back end).
Also OneBookShelf has print on demand and that is something that WotC likely took into account.
Dndclassics.com is intended to have multiple publishers, it's just WotC only at the moment.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I am really tempted to buy the Expanded Psionics Handbook but I think that is also part of the SRD.It is.
Not quite. Some elements in the XPH (Gith and Thri-kreen for example) are part of the XPH, but not SRD content. There might be others as well.
(personal bias) that said, get Untapped Potential for 3.5 while you're at it.(/personal bias)
My guess is that we won't see PDF copies of the older rule books become available until the reprints of AD&D and D&D 3.5 are sold out. Presumably, this will also be the case with AD&D 2E once those are reprinted this year.
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There were never any PDFs of the 3.5 core rulebooks previously, so imagine that might be one reason why they are not available now (not sure whether AD&D core rulebooks were available previously).
Mind you the 4e core rulebooks were available previously and they are not up yet either (maybe WotC want the Essentials books up there instead).
DigitalMage, as someone who bought D&D PDFs from Paizo, I won't claim that I'm getting kicked in the groin. I do think, however, that giving Paizo back the rights to sell those PDFs would be good for Paizo.
You know, I had forgotten this, but it was those D&D PDFs that first brought Paizo to my attention, five years ago. (I had gotten a couple of "Dungeon" issues published by Paizo, but those hadn't really grabbed my attention.) Because of that, I discovered how much fun this website was, which ultimately led to me buying a lot of Paizo products. I really believe that WotC downloads would be good for Paizo, even if Paizo got none of the profits for them.
And yes, I would think that making backups is the common-sense thing to do. When I got those WotC PDFs, I would put one copy onto my hard disk, and a backup on my thumb drive. (Then again, I don't do the same with my Paizo downloads. I save only ONE copy of those. If Paizo ever takes away my downloads, I'd better back up all those files, huh?)
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If they arranged for PDFs to be sold (or at least re-downloaded) from Paizo, they would:
a) get moar money
b) rebuild some customer confidence that was lost in massive amounts during the PDF pullout
c) be able to say "hey we're cool with Paizo, look what nice thing we did for people they bought our PDFs over there!"
d) give DigitalMage, Scott Betts et al one more reason to praise WotC, not that they has too few of them.
All in all, the amount of loss (net money earned by Paizo) would be outweighted by gain (above stuff). But alas, all this shows is that we're collateral damage.
In light of thejeff's argument, I should clarify the history in my previous post. I didn't buy any Paizo products (except for a few Dungeon magazines) until after WotC pulled the rights to their own downloads. I had a lot of WotC PDFs on my wishlist, and might not have given Golarion, or Pathfinder RPG, any consideration if I could have stuck with those WotC products.
So unless WotC is planning to take away those PDFs again, it would be in their best interest to sell their goods through as many vendors as possible.
Dang! I was hoping my 2000th post could be more positive and upbeat than that!
If they arranged for PDFs to be sold (or at least re-downloaded) from Paizo, they would:
a) get moar money
b) rebuild some customer confidence that was lost in massive amounts during the PDF pullout
c) be able to say "hey we're cool with Paizo, look what nice thing we did for people they bought our PDFs over there!"
d) give DigitalMage, Scott Betts et al one more reason to praise WotC, not that they has too few of them.All in all, the amount of loss (net money earned by Paizo) would be outweighted by gain (above stuff). But alas, all this shows is that we're collateral damage.
True story.
Now if WotC and Paizo could just work together to put Savage Tide into PDF format, I would love them both immensely. So much so, in fact, I would get a tattoo of a purple golem making sweet love to a Magic card on the rocky coasts of Washington State.
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Did you actually previously buy and get reupped access?
Yep, I had previously purchased Unearthed Arcana (3.5 version) and it now shows that I purchased it already and I can download it again.
Interestingly, there is some difference, file size is different (slightly smaller now) and there is an extra bookmark for the front cover in the latest download.
I am wondering whether the PHBII PDF is more performant now (it rendered really slowly before, to the point I didn't display large images).
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If they arranged for PDFs to be sold (or at least re-downloaded) from Paizo, they would:
a) get moar money
b) rebuild some customer confidence that was lost in massive amounts during the PDF pullout
c) be able to say "hey we're cool with Paizo, look what nice thing we did for people they bought our PDFs over there!"
d) give DigitalMage, Scott Betts et al one more reason to praise WotC, not that they has too few of them.
a) would require Paizo to be able to sell PDFs rather than just re-download, but yes b), c) and d) would all be correct, however unfortunately I can see some higher ups in WotC not seeing those as particularly persuasive arguments as they don't directly lead to more sales.
Personally, given the fact that it likely took someone in WotC some considerate effort to convince them that selling PDFs would be a good thing, then I am thankful that they are back at all.
All in all, the amount of loss (net money earned by Paizo) would be outweighted by gain (above stuff).
Possibly, but I know that previously DriveThru took less of a commission if they had exclusive distribution rights to a company's PDFs, so if that is still the case I imagine letting Paizo sell their PDFs wouldn't actually be that much of a gain, if anything it might result in a loss.
I also can't imagine there are many people who would buy D&D PDFs from Paizo but refuse to do so from DriveThru. And with the amount of media hype about the return of D&D PDFs I can't imagine anyone would notice Paizo selling D&D PDFs but not already be aware that they are available through DriveThru / RPGNow / DnDClassics.
And if I want to be cynical, some people who bought D&D PDFs from Paizo but lost them or never downloaded them may purchase them again from DriveThru - something they wouldn't do if Paizo allowed them to re-download again.
But alas, all this shows is that we're collateral damage.
You're no more "damaged" than you were before D&D PDFs were re-launched this week; you couldn't re-download previous Paizo bought D&D PDF purchases before and you can't now, so no change.
I also can't imagine there are many people who would buy D&D PDFs from Paizo but refuse to do so from DriveThru. And with the amount of media hype about the return of D&D PDFs I can't imagine anyone would notice Paizo selling D&D PDFs but not already be aware that they are available through DriveThru / RPGNow / DnDClassics.
What about after the media hype dies down?
PFRPG seems pretty popular these days. I could easily envision some future customer, who never necessarily heard of DriveThru or RPGNow, getting the PFRPG Core Rulebook or Beginner Box, and consequently looking curiously at paizo.com, and noticing the downloads available. If there are WotC downloads there, that would be a good way for WotC to advertise, and attract more customers.
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What about after the media hype dies down?
PFRPG seems pretty popular these days. I could easily envision some future customer, who never necessarily heard of DriveThru or RPGNow, getting the PFRPG Core Rulebook or Beginner Box, and consequently looking curiously at paizo.com, and noticing the downloads available. If there are WotC downloads there, that would be a good way for WotC to advertise, and attract more customers.
True, I hadn't really thought about that TBH, you likely have a point especially in relation to the 3.5 PDFs.
Hopefully then, if the DriveThru thing works WotC may look at the possibility of allowing Paizo to sell the PDFs. However, I think that would need to be prompted by Paizo going to WotC asking to sell their PDFs and offering a decent commission (especially if DriveThru commission would go up if they lost exclusive rights).
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If Paizo didn't make that promise, did they at least indicate that some PDFs may become unavailable preventing future download and that you should backup your files? If not (and I don't see such a statement / suggestion on the Downloads store page even after WotC pulled their PDFs) then perhaps Paizo should have done.
To address this question, I'm 98% certain that Paizo did notify us that they'd have to shut down access to all PDFs released by Wizards of the Coast, with the notable exception of the magazines. I'm also 98% certain that they urged us to download any PDFs we might have purchased before the cut-off date. I say 98% because I don't have a direct source (link or quote) so I'm going by memory.
Chief Technical Officer
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Now if WotC and Paizo could just work together to put Savage Tide into PDF format, I would love them both immensely. So much so, in fact, I would get a tattoo of a purple golem making sweet love to a Magic card on the rocky coasts of Washington State.
Wizards owns Savage Tide completely, and we delivered all of the electronic files to them at the conclusion of our contract. They don't have to work with us at all.
Customer Carebear
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To address this question, I'm 98% certain that Paizo did notify us that they'd have to shut down access to all PDFs released by Wizards of the Coast, with the notable exception of the magazines. I'm also 98% certain that they urged us to download any PDFs we might have purchased before the cut-off date. I say 98% because I don't have a direct source (link or quote) so I'm going by memory.
On April 6th, 2009, Wizards of the Coast instructed us to discontinue sales and distribution of their PDF products. That same day, we sent the following email to all customers that had purchased Wizards of the Coast PDFs at paizo.com:
An Important Notice Regarding Wizards of the Coast PDFs
Wizards of the Coast has notified us that we may no longer sell or distribute their PDF products. Accordingly, after April 6 at 11:59 PM Pacific time, Wizards of the Coast PDFs will no longer be available for purchase on paizo.com; after noon on April 7, you will no longer be able to download Wizards of the Coast PDFs that you have already purchased, so please make sure you have downloaded all purchased PDFs by that time.
Dungeon Magazine and Dragon Magazine PDFs will remain available, as they are covered by a different agreement with Wizards of the Coast.