Halfling staff slings and rapid reload / quick draw?

[Blackdragondisciple]

Is there anyway to use this weapon and continue using it in mid levels and not be giving up your extra range attacks? Seems sill y to me that one can not take a feat with this weapon and have a 2nd attack at 6th level. Is there any other feat out there that would allow one to use all of your attacks with this weapon, or is it just a 1-5 level weapon and you dump it after that? Also if you make it a plus 1, is it a single weapon or do you have to add +1 to both staff and sling?

[Isil-zha]

Halfling alternate racial trait: warslinger, lets you reload slings as a free action.

On the other question, I'd say you have to enchant it separately as a melee and a ranged weapon but I'm not 100% sure on that account.

edit: I thought I saw another feat to reload slings faster, but I cannot seem to find it at the moment

[Blackdragondisciple]

That would work. So next question. If you take weapon focus, and weapon specialization, then it does not matter how you use staff sling, your getting bonus for either use. And what about using this while mounted? Can it be done? I know you can not use a long bow, but a short bow is ok. This seems like its a small weapon, in short bow category.

[Isil-zha]

Why wouldn't you be able to use a longbow of appropriate size while mounted?

There are no fixed sizes for weapon types. Every weapon can be made for every creature size, with maybe a few exceptions at the lower end of size categories.

[Sanjiv]

additional question 1) masterwork slingstaff, will I get +1 to hit and damage on the ranged attacks, as well as the melee attacks?

additional question 2) what are the rules on using exotic ammunition for the sling staff? Would each require a feat?

additional question 3) How would a gnome (using a halfling sling staff) be able to maximize his attacks, without access to the warslinger halfing racial trait?

[Ajaxis]

There's a feat in Halflings of Golarion, Juggle Load after Ammo Drop, but it applies to slings and double slings, I don't see halfling sling staffs mentioned.

NCPCodex, p. 84, lists a halfling sling staff as +1 while double weapons are +1/+1 in the book (upon a very quick review). Also halfling sling staves are not double weapons. That being said, I wouldn't argue with a ruling they are treated as double weapons for enchantment cost purposes (which makes since). It's a corner case. From a game design standpoint, a double weapon is more powerful than a weapon which can be used in two ways, but not at the same time, especially if you only get one shot a round baring alternative racial traits. A returning sweapon costs only only a +1 bonus, for example.

[Blackdragondisciple]

If you read the long bow entry, it says its too big to use while mounted. you can use a composite long bow though.

[Isil-zha]

Ajaxis wrote:

There's a feat in Halflings of Golarion, Juggle Load after Ammo Drop, but it applies to slings and double slings, I don't see halfling sling staffs mentioned.

NCPCodex, p. 84, lists a halfling sling staff as +1 while double weapons are +1/+1 in the book (upon a very quick review). Also halfling sling staves are not double weapons. That being said, I wouldn't argue with a ruling they are treated as double weapons for enchantment cost purposes (which makes since). It's a corner case. From a game design standpoint, a double weapon is more powerful than a weapon which can be used in two ways, but not at the same time, especially if you only get one shot a round baring alternative racial traits. A returning sweapon costs only only a +1 bonus, for example.

I saw it more like a shield (which is enhanced as a weapon and a shield separately) than a double weapon (I wouldn't allow TWF with a sling staff). So the ranged and the melee weapon are two different uses of the same item just as shield for AC and shield for shield bash are.

But I can see that this may not be consensus.

[Ajaxis]

Isil-zha wrote:

I saw it more like a shield (which is enhanced as a weapon and a shield separately) than a double weapon (I wouldn't allow TWF with a sling staff). So the ranged and the melee weapon are two different uses of the same item just as shield for AC and shield for shield bash are.

But I can see that this may not be consensus.

Which is reasonable, and a DM could go either way.

Though there is a feat tree which lets you use your shield enchantment bonus also as your weapon bonus, and later get your shield bonus while attacking. The halfling sling staff is no where near that optimal of a choice.

[Isil-zha]

To achieve this you must invest in quite a few feats though, whereas the halfling slingstaff melee option is just a neat, if circumstantial, add-on to a decent and flavourful, if not optimal, ranged weapon.

To achieve this with most other ranged weapons you'd need to take 4 feats unless you have a class feature that accomplishes this or gives you a shortcut to snap shot.

[Krodjin]

Blackdragondisciple wrote:

Is there anyway to use this weapon and continue using it in mid levels and not be giving up your extra range attacks? Seems sill y to me that one can not take a feat with this weapon and have a 2nd attack at 6th level. Is there any other feat out there that would allow one to use all of your attacks with this weapon, or is it just a 1-5 level weapon and you dump it after that? Also if you make it a plus 1, is it a single weapon or do you have to add +1 to both staff and sling?

Rapid shot. As long as you have Warslinger feat you can make as many attacks in a full attack as you could with a bow. No Manyshot though.

Weapon focus, weapon specialization and enhancements apply to both the melee and ranged abilities of the sling staff. Because its not a double weapon you only pay the cost once. Seems over powered? It's not. Consider that reloading a sling still provokes an AoO even when it's a free action. Firing said sling while threatened still provokes an AoO until you get PBM.

The sling staff does give you the option of using it as a club of its size in melee - which is great as it basically gives you a slightly underpowered version of QuickDraw & Snapshot.

The problem is that a club is a 1 handed weapon, which means Weapon Finesse won't apply. Given that you're probably playing a Halfling that hurts. On the flip side you could wield it in 2 hands to get 1.5x STR and 3:1 Power Attack, but that's probably not much of a help if you're a Halfling (STR penalty).

A human could start play with a 16 in both STR & DEX and be equally good with a sling staff ranged or melee - but without the Warslinger (Halfling racial trait) I don't know how you'd reload said sling as a free action.

[Stephen Fitzpatrick]

Krodjin wrote:

Blackdragondisciple wrote:

Is there anyway to use this weapon and continue using it in mid levels and not be giving up your extra range attacks? Seems sill y to me that one can not take a feat with this weapon and have a 2nd attack at 6th level. Is there any other feat out there that would allow one to use all of your attacks with this weapon, or is it just a 1-5 level weapon and you dump it after that? Also if you make it a plus 1, is it a single weapon or do you have to add +1 to both staff and sling?

Rapid shot. As long as you have Warslinger feat you can make as many attacks in a full attack as you could with a bow. No Manyshot though.

Weapon focus, weapon specialization and enhancements apply to both the melee and ranged abilities of the sling staff. Because its not a double weapon you only pay the cost once. Seems over powered? It's not. Consider that reloading a sling still provokes an AoO even when it's a free action. Firing said sling while threatened still provokes an AoO until you get PBM.

The sling staff does give you the option of using it as a club of its size in melee - which is great as it basically gives you a slightly underpowered version of QuickDraw & Snapshot.

The problem is that a club is a 1 handed weapon, which means Weapon Finesse won't apply. Given that you're probably playing a Halfling that hurts. On the flip side you could wield it in 2 hands to get 1.5x STR and 3:1 Power Attack, but that's probably not much of a help if you're a Halfling (STR penalty).

A human could start play with a 16 in both STR & DEX and be equally good with a sling staff ranged or melee - but without the Warslinger (Halfling racial trait) I don't know how you'd reload said sling as a free action.

Hey guys, you can use http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/racial-feats/racial-heritage to qualify for the feat, even if you are a human, but there's a snag in this plan.

"FAQ
What kind of slings does the the Halfling Warslinger's reload ability work with?

The warslinger ability says, "Halflings with this racial trait can reload a sling as a free action." It doesn't say "any type of sling" or "all slings," just "a sling." The ability only affects standard slings, not halfling sling staffs or any other kind of sling."

This racial feat doesn't even solve the problem. There doesn't seem to be a way to effectively use this weapon after level 5. Maybe if you're a bard, using arcane strike? I dunno. It seems pretty bad.

Maybe a rogue? Feint as a move action (because it's also a melee weapon). Free 5 back out of the threatened square, then sneak attack? possibly add vital strike?

Pretty bad if you ask me.

[Krodjin]

Yeah the FAQ for the warslinger trait was pretty poorly thought out. I think it was a Friday afternoon or something when they posted it - it was a decision made in haste without actually considering the ramifications. I know I've made snap decision on a Friday afternoon when I'm preoccupied with the countdown to beer o'clock, so I'll cut the design team some slack...

At the end of the day though they made the only Halfling specific weapon in the CRB useless/irrelevant.

Seems like a waste of a weapon, a racial trait, and a FAQ.