|
Hey all,
I am looking to get some advice on making an interesting character to fit into a new PFS group that just started. I'll be playing with the same people each week and we also have a Monk, Druid, Rogue, and Cleric. I have planned on rolling a Sorceress from Day 1, so I'd rather not change that. We went through PFS: First Step 1, and I didn't feel as though I was making a big contribution to the group. It did seem this group needs a "face of the party". So, I wanted to make adjustments to my character before I could no longer at Level 2.
I'm looking for advice on...
Bloodline?
Useful spells?
Any other roleplaying tips for playing Lawful Neutral for Cheliax (it seems interesting, but perhaps a little difficult to fully grasp the mindset)?
Any other advice/things to keep in mind?
Thanks in advance for any input.
|
Well, any feats or traits that boost initiative are fairly useful for spell casters. (I have an 11th level Andoran human diviner who has great reaction speed. Ironically, a Cheliaxian inquisitor with a team work feat used to stand by him to take advantage of the diviner's speed, with some humorous commentary once the diviner gained overland flight.)
Sleep and color spray are useful at first level.
As for the bloodline, perhaps a better question is what is the character concept. I have seldom played sorcerors.
As a lawful neutral citizen of Cheliax or supporter, you most likely abhore the chaos of the Chelaxian civil war and believe that House Thrune reestablished law and order. You will probably respect lawful neutral or lawful good characters associated with other countries or factions, even if you find their loyalties questionable. Whether or not you have the tact or not to mention it depends on your character. One decision you should make is whether your character's faction and allegiances are known. (For example, my diviner keeps his faction a secret even if the other players know. However, a few characters, such as an inquisitor of Asmodeus that someone plays locally are quite open about their factions.)
One model for a lawful neutral character is Javert from Les Miserables, whom one can argue with his utter dedication to the state is the epitome of that alignment. One can also argue that his lack of mercy tends to make him lean towards lawful evil.
Order should be important for your character, as is the character's personal code. I would take some time to figure out what the character believes as consistency should be a part of any lawfully aligned character.
So, you do have a lot to think about your character.
If you want to explore the Lawful Neutral sorcerer from Cheliax, you might want to look at the Diabolist prestige class. The benefits include gaining an Imp familiar and Augment Summoning without the Spell Focus (conjuration) prereq.
I'm not familiar enough with the PFS rules to know how quickly you can start the prestige class, because it has a special prereq. If you have to cast lesser planar binding as a known spell, you are looking at 11th level. If you can buy a scroll, then you could start it at 6th level which is much more enjoyable.
Don't forget to read the sorcerer guides for build ideas.
cheers
If you want to explore the Lawful Neutral sorcerer from Cheliax, you might want to look at the Diabolist prestige class. The benefits include gaining an Imp familiar and Augment Summoning without the Spell Focus (conjuration) prereq.
I'm not familiar enough with the PFS rules to know how quickly you can start the prestige class, because it has a special prereq. If you have to cast lesser planar binding as a known spell, you are looking at 11th level. If you can buy a scroll, then you could start it at 6th level which is much more enjoyable.
Don't forget to read the sorcerer guides for build ideas.
cheers
There was a post about this recently, and I believe you need to know the spell yourself to qualify.
What spells do you know? What do you plan to focus on (blasting, buffs, debuffs, battlefield control)?
|
|
Thank you all for the input. Javert will work as good reference material for me to keep in mind. Diabolist looks interesting, and even if I don't go for it, it'll give me some ideas to work with. I plan to do almost no blasting whatsoever. I was considering taking spells that help my allies "do the winning" somewhat like described in the TreantMonk Wizard guide. Also, it is important that I somehow excel at social skills, because I believe I will be the only one to do so (magically or non-magically).
My current concept for my character involves her being very supportive of the ideas of "societal roles". People knowing their station and acting accordingly. Seeking achievement and to improve her status. Her outlook on morality very much involves if anyone else is being harmed. Drugs, prostitution, and other such morally grey areas would be fine in her mind, so long as other citizen's rights are not being infringed upon. This idea of law may or may not extend to devil servants, 2nd class citizens, etc.
This is not to say that she will be evil in any way, but moreso a "live and let live" kind of attitude shaped by the area she was brought up in. People can do what they want with their own bodies under the right of law.
|
|
Thank you all for the input. Javert will work as good reference material for me to keep in mind. Diabolist looks interesting, and even if I don't go for it, it'll give me some ideas to work with. I plan to do almost no blasting whatsoever. I was considering taking spells that help my allies "do the winning" somewhat like described in the TreantMonk Wizard guide. Also, it is important that I somehow excel at social skills, because I believe I will be the only one to do so (magically or non-magically).
My current concept for my character involves her being very supportive of the ideas of "societal roles". People knowing their station and acting accordingly. Seeking achievement and to improve her status. Her outlook on morality very much involves if anyone else is being harmed. Drugs, prostitution, and other such morally grey areas would be fine in her mind, so long as other citizen's rights are not being infringed upon. This idea of law may or may not extend to devil servants, 2nd class citizens, etc.
This is not to say that she will be evil in any way, but moreso a "live and let live" kind of attitude shaped by the area she was brought up in. People can do what they want with their own bodies under the right of law.
It sounds like she might fit in well with the Paracountess. Perhaps this thread should be moved to the PFS subforum. There are a lot of people who will be glad to help you.
I will say that the battlefield control spells work wonders. Stinking cloud, sleet storm and grease are all very useful. However, a sorceror's spell selections are somewhat limited.
My wizard does reasonably well with social skills, despite only having a 10 charisma. Your character will likely do better. Also, do remember that you can use Bluff for the feint in combat. While entering combat should be rare, just having it as an option can be good in an extreme situation.
Bloodline?
- Arcana (Most powerful of all of them - Core Rule Book) Sylvan (Close second, because you get a druids animal companion - Ultimate Magic.)
Useful spells?
- For level one, Color Spray and Sleep are amazing. They both die out by level 2-3, so you will only want one of the two so you can swap it out later. Silent Image, Mage Armor, and Grease all maintain usefulness 1-12, so I would take one from column 1, and one from column 2, then swap out your column 1 spell for a column 2 spell asap.
Any other roleplaying tips for playing Lawful Neutral for Cheliax (it seems interesting, but perhaps a little difficult to fully grasp the mindset)?
- Cheliax is very close to EVIL, so your missions might be an acquired taste. Expect demons and pacts.
Any other advice/things to keep in mind?
- Charisma is your most important stat, bar none. Gnomes get +2 con, +2 cha, -2 Str, which is your least important stat. They can add +1 to a variety of spell DCs depending on which alternate racial trait you take. Illusion DC is standard.
Gnome Magic: Gnomes add +1 to the DC of any saving throws against illusion spells that they cast. Gnomes with Charisma scores of 11 or higher also gain the following spell-like abilities: 1/day—dancing lights, ghost sound, prestidigitation, and speak with animals. The caster level for these effects is equal to the gnome's level. The DC for these spells is equal to 10 + the spell's level + the gnome's Charisma modifier.
Can be replaced by:
Fell Magic Gnomes add +1 to the DC of any saving throws against necromancy spells that they cast. Gnomes with Wisdom scores of 11 or higher also gain the following spell-like abilities: 1/day—bleed, chill touch, detect poison, and touch of fatigue. The caster level for these effects is equal to the gnome's level. The DC for these spells is equal to 10 + the spell's level + the gnome's Wisdom modifier. This racial trait replaces gnome magic.
Magical Linguist Gnomes study languages in both their mundane and supernatural manifestations. Gnomes with this racial trait add +1 to the DC of spells they cast with the language-dependent descriptor or those that create glyphs, symbols, or other magical writings. They gain a +2 racial bonus on saving throws against such spells. Gnomes with Charisma scores of 11 or higher also gain the following spell-like abilities: 1/day—arcane mark, comprehend languages, message, read magic. The caster level for these effects is equal to the gnome's level. This racial trait replaces gnome magic and illusion resistance.
Pyromaniac Gnomes with this racial trait are treated as one level higher when casting spells with the fire descriptor, using granted powers of the Fire domain, using the bloodline powers of the fire elemental bloodline or the revelations of the oracle's flame mystery, and determining the damage of alchemist bombs that deal fire damage (this ability does not give gnomes early access to level-based powers; it only affects the powers they could use without this ability). Gnomes with Charisma scores of 11 or higher also gain the following spell-like abilities: 1/day—dancing lights, flare, prestidigitation, produce flame. The caster level for these effects is equal to the gnome's level; the DCs are Charisma-based. This racial trait replaces gnome magic and illusion resistance.
I, personally, love illusions, and would not swap out the racial for a sorcerer. I would especially not take Fell Magic since it is based on Wis and not Cha, your primary stat.
|
As far as being a face character, you already have bluff and intimidate as class skills. Adding the Ease of Faith religious trait from the APG gives you diplomacy, and a +1 trait bonus. So, with a rank in diplomacy, at first level you can have: 1 rank +3 class skill, +3-4 for charisma +1 trait, to start off, and then with a thrush familiar (Arcane Bloodline) for another +3 you are in double digits. The persuasive feat adds +2 to both diplomacy and intimidate, which seems very Chelaxian to me. Some will disagree with a feat for non-combat/spellcasting purposes, but the face can be a really important role. At 2nd level, eagle's splendor is a spell that adds another +2 to social rolls. Higher up, you can add more feats, and magic items to get it higher.
I'm going to go with the obvious, thematic, recommendation:
Tiefling Sorcerer with Infernal Bloodline.
You take a small hit to charisma, but due to the Tiefling fiendish sorcery racial trait it only effects skills not spellcasting. You gain a bump to bluff and to intelligence (more skills!) You get energy resistance and darkvision.
Infernal gives you diplomacy as a class skill, and a focus on summoning, fire and mind control. You can take additional spells to complement this focus: burning hands, charm person perhaps.
You get lots of built in rp from fighting your inner tendencies.
And then run with it ;)
Just a thought!
A thought on the above post:
Demonspawn Cheliaxan Sorcerer just seems somehow appropriate!
For one Feat: Feindish Heritage. Select Rakshasa Spawn (+2 Dex, +2 Cha, -2 Wis)
Fiendish Sorcery: Tiefling sorcerers with the Abyssal or Infernal bloodlines treat their Charisma score as 2 points higher for all sorcerer class abilities.
7 Str (-4 Points) 14 Dex (2 Points) 14 Con (5 Points) 10 Int (0 Points) 8 Wis (0 Points) 20 Cha (17 Points)
Counts as 22 Cha if you choose Infernal or Abyssal bloodline... +2 Cha for a sorcerer is HUGE. Only applies to Sorcerer stuff, like spell DCs, bloodline powers, etc. Does not apply to skills.
Conversely, you could have an effective Cha of 20 for a 10 point investment!
(16 Cha = 10 points = 18 Cha after racial = 20 Cha as above) for 1 feat. As for Is it Worth a Point:
Spell Focus is +1 DC, and only applies to ONE school of Spells. You would get +1 DC to ALL schools, and you would gain some decent other perks, such as increased use of bloodline powers, more casting per day, etc.
Infernal Bloodline = +2 DC of Charm spells. There are more Humanoid enemies in pathfinder than any other type of enemy.
School enchantment (charm) [mind-affecting]; Level bard 1, sorcerer/wizard 1, witch 1
CASTING
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
EFFECT
Range close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target one humanoid creature
Duration 1 hour/level
Saving Throw Will negates; Spell Resistance yes
Your DC for Charm Person
with effective 22 Cha: 10 +2 (Infernal Bloodline) +1 (Spell Level) +6 Cha = 19! At level 1. . . WOOT!
You need Diplomacy as a class skill. You can either get that from a trait or I would recommend the Serpentine bloodline. It has a the right feel for what you are planning (IMO).
Infernal Bloodline also gives you Diplomacy as a class skills.
A thought on the above post:
Demonspawn Cheliaxan Sorcerer just seems somehow appropriate!
For one Feat: Feindish Heritage. Select Rakshasa Spawn (+2 Dex, +2 Cha, -2 Wis)
You don't need to take fiendish heritage to be able to take an alternative heritage. So you can freely take any tiefling heritage you want at no cost.
A thought on the above post:
For one Feat: Feindish Heritage. Select Rakshasa Spawn (+2 Dex, +2 Cha, -2 Wis)
You don't need to take fiendish heritage to be able to take an alternative heritage. So you can freely take any tiefling heritage you want at no cost.
Good idea. Did they update or remove the Fiendish Heritage feat in Blood of Fiends? I don't have that book. I know that the original feat in AP #25 is not PFS legal. Dood, they took it out completely in blood of fiends?
Gnome color sprayer. Witha dip in orcale your colorspray becomes devestating. At like 6th level you can even drop undead with that spell.
Control spells are the MOST powerfull spells in the game. If you can remove an opponent out of the fight for a couple rounds the fights become too easy.
Arcane is powerfull if you plan to meta magic.
Fey is powerfull because you can get a pet. with a feat you can get it to your level.
A thought on the above post:
For one Feat: Feindish Heritage. Select Rakshasa Spawn (+2 Dex, +2 Cha, -2 Wis)
Good idea. Did they update or remove the Fiendish Heritage feat in Blood of Fiends? I don't have that book. I know that the original feat in AP #25 is not PFS legal. Dood, they took it out completely in blood of fiends?
You don't need to take fiendish heritage to be able to take an alternative heritage. So you can freely take any tiefling heritage you want at no cost.
Yes, they removed the feat completely. The blood of fiends book makes no mention what so ever about the feat.
You don't need to take fiendish heritage to be able to take an alternative heritage. So you can freely take any tiefling heritage you want at no cost.A thought on the above post:
Demonspawn Cheliaxan Sorcerer just seems somehow appropriate!
For one Feat: Feindish Heritage. Select Rakshasa Spawn (+2 Dex, +2 Cha, -2 Wis)
\
Source? I think my pre level 2 rebuild may occur to make my paladin Muse Touched!
(I am just assuming the same is true for Aasimar here....)
|
|
Wow, thanks for all the great replies, everyone! I'm a new poster here, and am surprised by how welcoming/helpful/insightful everyone is. It is like no where else on the internet.
Despite the awesomeness that comes with the Tiefling bonuses, I believe my GM wants us to stick to the core rulebook for races (at least, that's what everyone else has done). The extra spells Humans get are pretty sweet, anyhow.
I like the idea of going with the more Charm-based theme. I think it can really work with what I'm going for. Infernal Bloodline gives Diplomacy, too... which is going to be a MUST. Arcane seems to be the "go-to" Bloodline, and I like the idea of going off the beaten path.
So, I think I've got a good idea of what to do now. Just need to choose some useful traits. I have a lot of flexibility if I take Infernal to get Diplomacy as a class skill.
Thank you all so much for all the help!
You don't need to take fiendish heritage to be able to take an alternative heritage. So you can freely take any tiefling heritage you want at no cost.A thought on the above post:
Demonspawn Cheliaxan Sorcerer just seems somehow appropriate!
For one Feat: Feindish Heritage. Select Rakshasa Spawn (+2 Dex, +2 Cha, -2 Wis)
Source? I think my pre level 2 rebuild may occur to make my paladin Muse Touched!
(I am just assuming the same is true for Aasimar here....)
The blood of fiends book, which is all about tieflings and includes the alternate heritages, makes no mention about the fiendish heritage feat. Now if that feat were required to select an alternative heritage, I'd think they would have included the feat in the book, or at least made some mention about it.
As for aasimar, I wasn't aware they required a feat to take an alternative heritage (thought it was only tieflings). But just like blood of fiends, blood of angels doesn't list or even mention requiring any feat to be able to take an alternative heritage.
So, I think I've got a good idea of what to do now. Just need to choose some useful traits. I have a lot of flexibility if I take Infernal to get Diplomacy as a class skill.
Thank you all so much for all the help!
If you are taking the infernal bloodline just to get diplomacy as a class skill, I would suggest taking a trait for that instead. Otherwise, carry on.
If the game is really PFS, not a home game running PFS adventures but not reporting them, then you can choose any legal race you wish. The GM's wishes are irrelevant (although some may object, they aren't SUPPOSED to). These additional races currently include all races from the core rulebook, Aasimar, Tiefling and Tengu (bird-people).
So play to whatever concept you feel comfortable with.
More input: For Cheliax, the most thematically appropriate races are humans, gnomes from brastlewark, halflings and tieflings. All but humans are second class citizens in Cheliax, and even then it's touch and go if you're not from a noble house. Gnomes have their own city (Brastlewark), so they are better off then other non humans. Tieflings with Infernal heritage are probably better respected then other tieflings. Halflings are almost always slaves, and may belong to the Belliflower network (underground railroad). Any of these races can make fine sorcerers.
As I mentioned before, the only stat you really care about is the Charisma. Everything else is expendable to get more charisma.
After you have maximum charisma, dex and con are tied for the second most important. Personally, I would try 20,14,14 for Cha Dex Con. Str is probably the least useful (not tied to skills or save), followed in uselessness by Wisdom, (tied to save, but . . . you probably want some skills. . . ) then Int (Not tied to saves, but main stat for all Knowledge skills, Spellcraft, and Linguistics (only really important if you want to summon things like elementals.)
As above, Cheliax holds Brastlewark, which is not only a gnome city, it is the largest known gnome city in the whole of Golarion, and the home of the self appointed Gnome King!
|
|
It is really PFS and not a homebrew, but I'll be playing with the same group/GM every time. It is a good point you make, but I think I've decided I'm good on my choice as Human.
The appeal of the Infernal Bloodline is flavor, Diplomacy, and +2 to DCs on Charm. I know the rest of the bloodline isn't all that great, but what it does offer early on is pretty appealing. I'm envisioning an Sorceress who knows her way with words and manipulation. She can beguile the weak-willed with words, beauty, and if all else fails, magic. I was thinking of taking the Charming trait, as it obviously falls right in line with this.
The only other bloodline I could see using is Serpentine to affect beasts as well, but I'm not certain that it offers all that much else. But nothing is set in stone yet and I'm still open to ideas.
OK, a few more thoughts:
- Charm Person sorcerer/wizard 1
- Charm Monster sorcerer/wizard 4
- Symbol of Persuasion sorcerer/wizard 6
- Charm Monster, Mass sorcerer/wizard 8
- Bouncing spell (Advanced Players Guide)
- Lesser metamagic rod of Threnodic spell (charm the undead) - Ultimate Equipment
Don't forget points on Linguistics. If you don't speak the language, all the diplomacy in the world won't help you.
Tian, Osiriani, and Skald are good picks.
|
|
I do enjoy options, but I think I'll just stick with the Infernal Bloodline for the +2 DC charm.
Also, Linguistics does seem like a good choice, even if not a class skill. I think I read Varisian was the flavor for Season 4? (which is what we'll be playing - starting with the Rise of the Goblin Guild after the First Steps)
So here is what I'm looking at...
Relmn Sarjinn - Cheliax - Deity: ???
STR: 7(-2) DEX: 13(+1) CON: 12(+1) INT: 12(+1) WIS: 10(0) CHA: 20(+5)
Bloodline: Infernal - +2 to DC of Charm subschool
Level 1 Skills: Diplomacy, Knowledge (Arcana), Linguistics, Spellcraft, Use Magic Device
Languages: Common, ???, ??? (Infernal?, Tian? Osiriani?, Skald?, Varisian?)
Feats: Toughness, Bouncing Spell
Traits: Charming, Magical Lineage (Charm Person)
Level 1 Spells: Color Spray, Charm Person
Level 0 Spell DC: 15
Level 1 Spell DC: 16
Charm Person DC (non-sexually attracted): 18
Charm Person DC (sexually attracted): 19
Bouncing Spell + Magical Lineage lets me fail a Charm Person cast, and redirect it at another target without increasing the level slot used.
Hmm. Charming specifically works on language dependent spells only - this is a spell description specific, and limited to only a few spells for sorcs - suggestion, geas.
So maybe an alternate suggestion:
Extremely Fashionable
You could also pick up a combat oriented trait: reactionary, for instance.
Honestly I was thinking of bouncing spell for higher levels, not 1st. The problem with charm person is DM variability - as an in-combat spell there are a lot of gotchas and DM's may refuse to allow it in combat at all. It's much better used before combat begins. A clever player can use it to bypass combats altogether, especially if the party allows them to do the talking.
Make sure to take a damaging cantrip (acid splash is popular)
Bouncing spell, conversely is useful for situations with multiple people - ie combat. I might forego metamagic entirely until higher level, in favor of spell focus or improved initiative.
Instead of toughness (or in addition to) consider this from the race guide:
"Fast Learner
You progress gain extra versatility.
Prerequisites : Int 13, human.
Benefit : When you gain a level in a favored class, you gain both +1 hit point and +1 skill rank instead of choosing either one or the other benefit or you can choose an alternate class reward."
This is nice because you can also use it for the extra spells known - a favored option class for humans. Would have to rework you stats a bit.
|
As I mentioned before, the only stat you really care about is the Charisma. Everything else is expendable to get more charisma.
Disagree. Charisma is your most important thing but it is not the only thing. You need con and dex for better hp, AC fort and reflex. I recomend 14 in each of these. Int is probably next because you are skill poor. Spending 2 points to up this will really help in your faction missions. Str can be dumped, but remember, encumbrance is in play so going for a 7 is not a good idea. Wis is probably your biggest dump stat. Still, the more you dump the less you get and more weaknesses you build into the character. As a DM, my one party wipe was a dominate person on a fighter who dumped wisdom.
Recommended Race, Human or tiefling variant. I've seen nothing other then this thread to suggest you need a feat to take these in PFS. You do need Blood of Fiends.
Bloodline infernal.
Stats (Human)
Str 10 (or 8, see wis)
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 12
Wis 8 (or 10, if you'd rather dump Str)
Cha 18
Rakasha Blooded
Str 8
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 12
Wis 8
Cha 19
Feats: Spell Focus (Enchantment), Greater Spell Focus (For Human).
Traits: Princess (Gives Diplomacy and Intimidate), Reactionary or Charming
Note on spells: You said you wanted to be a charm specialist. However, don't over specialize. I recomend a 1/1 ratio of enchantment spells to other spells. That way, you don't become instantly useless when you run into vermin or constructs.
Equitment:You have money, spend some on things like alchemist fire and a crossbow to cover your low level weaknesses. Don't get mage armor as spell, but do get it as a wand ASAP.
Hope that helps.
|
|
Good points. It wouldn't be a big deal to move my Dex: 13 to be a Int: 13. If I dropped the Bouncing Spell for now, I could take Fast Learner + Imp. Initiative or Toughness. That seems wise.
For traits, I like Extremely Fashionable, but as Infernal Bloodline, I'd waste the bonus class skill. I have Diplomacy from Infernal and Bluff and Intimidate are already class skills. I could take Extremely Fashionable and drop Infernal (which could be fine..... but I lose my "Enchantress/Charm" theme), and take a different Bloodline with a bit different flavor. Then again, I could just drop Charming and take Reactionary and call it a day...
I think Fast Learner is simply amazing feet for human sorcerers. Spell versatility is a sorcerer's weakness - with fast learner there is no reason not to take the human sorc favored ability. (Well, at least above level 4 - it's arguable how many extra cantrips one needs ;) ).
Enjoy!