ShadowSketch |
Hey everyone, I'm hoping to start up a Pathfinder group in my local area, using the beginner box as a starting point, but before I do so I just have a few questions. If anyone could answer them, it'd be greatly appreciated.
1. How many players make up an "ideal" party? The box comes with 4 pre-gen characters but the standard for D&D is/was (I believe) 5?
2. I noticed in a video preview that the "Hero's Handbook" has a walk-through solo adventure, used to teach the rules. Will I need to get all my players to run through that? If so, should I do that individually or take them all through at once (since I believe it's a linear adventure, as opposed to D&D's choose-your-own)?
3. How long does character creation take? Is it recommended to play with the pre-gen characters first, due to them having the character sheets with explanations?
I'll add any more questions as I think of them, but any input would be great, thanks
arioreo |
1. How many players make up an "ideal" party? The box comes with 4 pre-gen characters but the standard for D&D is/was (I believe) 5?
There such a thing as an ideal party (or may the ideal party is that party you have the most fun with). So don't let the numbers or advice stop your.
That said, most adventures (including the one the beginner box) are written for 4 character combine of a number of classes that offer access to the 5 core mechanics (this a balanced party).
The 5 core mechanics are devine magic (and healing), arcane magic, melee combat, ranged combat and skills.
Note that some classes can be combine multiple mechanics or fill in some aspects partially. (mainly, all character should contribute to the skill mechanic - possibly through spells or other abilities - so you don't need a skill monkey that may lack in combat ability)
2. I noticed in a video preview that the "Hero's Handbook" has a walk-through solo adventure, used to teach the rules. Will I need to get all my players to run through that? If so, should I do that individually or take them all through at once (since I believe it's a linear adventure, as opposed to D&D's choose-your-own)?
The solo adventure is designed to run if you don't have a DM. Let them run through it if they desire though when are involved, aim for full fleshed adventures with all people present.
Social interaction is half the fun of an rpg and you lose that when you deliberately play solo campaigns when you have a full party to play with.3. How long does character creation take? Is it recommended to play with the pre-gen characters first, due to them having the character sheets with explanations?
Character creation with the advice and the rule from the beginner box shouldn't take longer than 1 hour assuming the players want to make fast choice. If they insist on investigating each and every detail of each and every feat and spell, thing can take a very long time.
If you start with character creation, encourage them to take the hints in the runthough and restart a different adventure when you feel they wish to customise more.
Winter_Born |
As far as the solo adventure, I agree that RPGs excel in the social experience realm. But I do think they are worth running though on a player by player basis before you all sit down together as it's a wonderful way to introduce new game concepts in a quieter, more focused manner.
I"m excited that you're excited to dive in, and asking questions is a great way to find your way! =)
ShadowSketch |
Thanks for the answers guys! I've ordered the box and it's on its way.
I've downloaded the free character sheets to familiarize myself with the characters before I see the box, and a few things are jumping out at me.
The pregen cleric, Kyra, has the channel energy feature. It says it can heal living creatures within the 30-foot radius, or harm undead within the radius. Can both be used at once? Or does the cleric have to decide before channeling that they're going to EITHER heal OR harm. Also, if there are living enemies or undead allies, do they still get healed/harmed respectively?
In a similar vein, does the wizard's burning hands spell affect allies in the area of effect (i.e. any allies caught in the fire have to make a reflex save or take damage as well)? Or is it presumed that the wizard can manipulate the fire past them/miss them otherwise?
EDIT: Is a power attack a full-round action? Or am I confusing it with another action? Also, the fighter can draw a weapon as a move action, I presume that means he sheathed/stowed any weapons he already had equipped, correct? Can he then proceed to use that weapon that turn, if he still has his standard action? Likewise, can he attack with a standard action then switch weapons?
Bearded Ben |
The pregen cleric, Kyra, has the channel energy feature. It says it can heal living creatures within the 30-foot radius, or harm undead within the radius. Can both be used at once? Or does the cleric have to decide before channeling that they're going to EITHER heal OR harm. Also, if there are living enemies or undead allies, do they still get healed/harmed respectively?
It's either one or the other. Usually you can't exclude your allies from the channel (I'm not sure if the Beginner Box includes the feat that lets you do that.)
In a similar vein, does the wizard's burning hands spell affect allies in the area of effect (i.e. any allies caught in the fire have to make a reflex save or take damage as well)? Or is it presumed that the wizard can manipulate the fire past them/miss them otherwise?
They'd take damage as well.
EDIT: Is a power attack a full-round action? Or am I confusing it with another action?
Power attack isn't an action at all, it's an option you can use when you attack.
Also, the fighter can draw a weapon as a move action, I presume that means he sheathed/stowed any weapons he already had equipped, correct?
Stowing a carried weapon is, IIRC, it's own move action, but the fighter could drop it as a free action.
Can he then proceed to use that weapon that turn, if he still has his standard action? Likewise, can he attack with a standard action then switch weapons?
Yes and yes.
ShadowSketch |
It's either one or the other. Usually you can't exclude your allies from the channel (I'm not sure if the Beginner Box includes the feat that lets you do that.)
So say the PC's are fighting some bandits, and they've all taken some damage. If the cleric channels her energy for healing, do the bandits get healed as well, since it doesn't specify "friendly" or "allied" living creatures? And, if by a freak turn of events, one of the PC's or their allies becomes undead, would the harm undead channel injure them too?
Power attack isn't an action at all, it's an option you can use when you attack.
Therefore it functions exactly like a regular attack, except that it gets +3 damage for -1 attack bonus?
Stowing a carried weapon is, IIRC, it's own move action, but the fighter could drop it as a free action.
Okay, so if a character wanted to switch weapons completely they have to take a full round doing so, or drop their previous weapon to the ground to retain a standard move. On that note, can a standard action be swapped for a move action?
Spell Slingin' Steve |
Bearded Ben wrote:It's either one or the other. Usually you can't exclude your allies from the channel (I'm not sure if the Beginner Box includes the feat that lets you do that.)So say the PC's are fighting some bandits, and they've all taken some damage. If the cleric channels her energy for healing, do the bandits get healed as well, since it doesn't specify "friendly" or "allied" living creatures? And, if by a freak turn of events, one of the PC's or their allies becomes undead, would the harm undead channel injure them too?
If you choose to heal, it heals all living within the area, friend or foe. If you choose to damage it damages all undead in the area, friend or foe. There is a feat called "Selective Channel" that allows you to choose your targets, but I am unsure if this is in the Box rules.
Bearded Ben wrote:Power attack isn't an action at all, it's an option you can use when you attack.Therefore it functions exactly like a regular attack, except that it gets +3 damage for -1 attack bonus?
Exactly
Bearded Ben wrote:Stowing a carried weapon is, IIRC, it's own move action, but the fighter could drop it as a free action.Okay, so if a character wanted to switch weapons completely they have to take a full round doing so, or drop their previous weapon to the ground to retain a standard move. On that note, can a standard action be swapped for a move action?
You can take an extra move action in place of a standard action. But you cannot take an extra standard action in place of a move action.
So drop weapon for free, draw new weapon as a move (You can also move one square as a "5-foot step" as part of this), and then attack as your standard action.
ShadowSketch |
Thanks for the replies so far everyone! I'm going to be running the adventure from the Game Master's Guide this Saturday, hopefully all goes well. I've read through the Hero's Handbook plus the adventure in the GMG, and will be reading the GM'ing guidelines before the day. However after reading through the adventure (and reading this review: http://gfbrobot.com/2012/02/14/role-playing-game-review-pathfinder-beginner -box/ ) I have a few more questions.
For starters, the review above states that the ending to the adventure feels lacklustre, with the dragon just flying away. I want to remedy this by letting the PC's kill the dragon, while still allowing for progression after the adventure, and to not make the downloadable adventure useless. My idea for a fix is to have the dragon only be the "child", explaining the weaker stat block, and then the rest of the adventure is tracking down the "parent". Does this sound feasible?
In a similar vein, the review also states the shortcomings of the dragonbane longsword. I want to use the example it gave of changing it to a talisman that weakens the dragon, allowing everyone to contribute. I decided the talisman reduces the dragon's AC by 2 and gives a -2 penalty on all its saving throws for 10 turns. Does this sound balanced? Overpowered? Underpowered? I'd rather err on the side of overpowered since I want the PC's to fight the dragon to the death. Should I also make it reduce the dragon's damage in this case? Also, if the PC's are going to be hunting the "parent" dragon afterwards, I'm considering having th talisman be "rechargeable", which the PC's can discover if they use detect magic or try and sell it once its power has been used. Does this sound reasonable?
Another encounter that I think could be problematic is the goblin king. I want my players to know there is a diplomatic outcome without having to directly tell them. My first thought is to have the king and his lackeys surrounded by a stasis or force field spell that the PC's can't penetrate until the king chooses to disable it, which he will if the PC's fail their diplomacy checks, or bring the toy, but I think this feels a bit forced. Is this a good solution? Any suggestions if it's not?
Finally, I also want the PC's to discover the dragonbane longsword/talisman without fail. I'm considering having the goblin king tell the PC's of the mage that hid the treasure on the island if they try and go to the dragon's cave without it. But if the PC's kill the goblin king, what alternative can I use?
Thanks in advance, cheers.
Spell Slingin' Steve |
Hey Shadow, I ran the BB adventure for a group and the end fight is kind of disappointing. My suggestion would be to get rid of the dragon entirely, replace it with some other beast. Manticore maybe, perhaps the dragon is working with the manticore and flies away when the party arrives. "deal with this trash, i have no time for this" This would give you the hook for the party to hunt down the dragon.
Dragons are truly epic beasts, fighting a dragon at first level feels kind of cheap. Dragons are not only powerful but also smart and could easily dispose of a group of level 1s.
I also feel like you wouldnt have to hunt down the parent dragon if you killed its child. It would find you and raze whatever town you are currently occupying.
The talisman does seem a little over powered for a level 1 party, but that should be fine for you goals. Just make it work on Magical Creatures. remember Detect Magic does not tell you what an item does, only the type of magical aura. They have to make a Spellcraft check to determine properties. Maybe a little Knowledge (Arcana) will have someone remember hearing about a set of these talismans that effect different creature types. They can track down the Dragon talisman before going to fight the Dragon.
The Goblin King scene was tough for me too, my party just rushed ahead swords drawn. My suggestion is to try and humanize the goblins, they are emotional little creatures, maybe the king is really broken up and sulking, crying even. Have the others start groveling at the party's feet, begging for help for their king. You just need something to diffuse the "kill it first and then ask if we should have killed it" attitude that comes from playing video games with infinite retries.
As for getting them to the island, have them make a perception check to notice something glimmer across the water. Or maybe they find a cryptic note left by the mage. And if they cast detect magic for long enough they should pick up on the aura of the talisman.
Good luck!!
ShadowSketch |
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Thanks for all the help guys, I've been meaning to write a follow-up post since the event but it's been a very busy week! The beginner box adventure was a huge success, I invited four people to play, one of which had played D&D briefly before, another (my girlfriend) who had expressed interest in tabletop RPG's, and two other guys that had only heard about tabletop RPG's and never learnt much about them. Everyone got right into it though and had a great time, and afterwards all four of them expressed interest in continuing the adventure.
Spell Slingin' Steve, I used most of your suggestions in the adventure, changing the dragon to a manticore was definitely the right move as everyone was very satisfied at being able to actually slay the "final boss" of the dungeon. I actually powered up the talisman even further because the game was dragging on a little (not that anyone was bored, mind!) and even still, the players thought that the fight was challenging and satisfying enough. I ended up not having any issues with getting them to find the talisman, nor with getting them to try the diplomatic approach with the goblins (they basically walked straight into the room and I started talking in character as the goblin king as soon as he noticed them, so they were never under the impression it was a combat encounter at all).
From here we're looking into virtual tabletop programs (especially Roll20) to continue the adventure, as two of the players live quite a distance away and will soon be moving even further away. I've also decided the pre-generated adventure was a "prologue" to the actual adventure, as all players expressed an interest in making their own characters, so I wanted them to be able to do that without feeling like they've lost progress.
Once again, thanks for your help everyone!