Goblin Squad Member
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I was thinking of the high def 3d models showing leather clad generic male and female characters standing on a small flagstone tiled square, arms spread at their sides with no weapons. Does that ring a bell?Does anyone have the link to the detailed 3D models they showed us for generic male and female avatars?Scroll down here.
Yep I remember it. I think recall it was on the Kickstarter just below the environmental experience download link but it isn't there anymore.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I was thinking of the high def 3d models showing leather clad generic male and female characters standing on a small flagstone tiled square, arms spread at their sides with no weapons. Does that ring a bell?Does anyone have the link to the detailed 3D models they showed us for generic male and female avatars?Scroll down here.
I know what you mean, they were shown as art guidelines, and it was mentioned that the finished game would not look exactly like them. Can't finde them on the Kickstarter site any longer, shame I really liked the direction.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I actually hope any one piece of armor/clothing looks exactly the same on males or females. Don't bother with male/female art for same piece, just do art for males pieces and for separate female pieces...and let us mix and match as we wish.Another way of doing this, which I am not in favor of, is having the armor be gender specific when it drops. Which means Bubba the barbarian beefcake could wear a chain bikini if he would like to. But that also means that you would have a 50% chance of getting something you wouldn't wear simply because you don't want to play a transgender character.
This is exactly what I was thinking of...Maybe relevant crafters can convert male to female and vice versa...
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Goblin Squad Member
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Some of these sugestions are getting silly, either by taking away all choice or by making things overly complicated. Look at many of the female iconics and several of the males, they are showing skin. It's fantasy not a historically accurate simulator. We females will complain if all our armor looks like some formless potatoe sack with no style.
I am actually not that worried about these suggestions being taken too seriously because just by looking at Pathfinder's artwork that doesn't seem likely.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Do they get a +1 AC distraction bonus vs humaniod?
If someone wants to run around in a chainmail bikini and still be protected, I think they should be allowed to. If it's possible to enchant a simple bracer to provide extra Armor Class, then surely it's possible to do the same with a chainmail bikini.
absolutely, as long as they treat it like an enchanted bracers/ring/amulet. The problem is being told that the unenchanted bikini is the female version of plate mail.
I absolutely want to see elves in "nothing but smiles and strategically placed diamonds", but they should dress that way to deliberately provoke, not to protect themselves from stabs.
Could always do a version of an optional rule in gurps where in melee combat against a creature that could be phisically attracted to or repulsed by your chance of being hit in combat either went up or went down the less you wore.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Also didnt think about it in the above post but in all reality if you find armor in a dungeon unless it was enchanted it most likely would't fit you or poorly fit. So would have to take to a blacksmith to have altered and while altering it you could get a chance to change it's appearance. Also unless it was identified you take a big change of it possibly being cursed.
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Goblin Squad Member
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If you don't like "sexy" armor then don't wear it. I have yet to see a game where multiple options are not available. But taking away the options for others is never a good thing. Live and let live, don't try to control how other people want to play.
I've actually played a few games where the only option for female characters in terms of heavy armour were quite skimpy. Especially compared to the male versions of that same armour.
But I agree. There should be options for both. I just think that most of the armour should should be of the practical kind rather than the other way around but that skimpy armour shouldn't be that much harder to obtain.
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Goblin Squad Member
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If you don't like "sexy" armor then don't wear it. I have yet to see a game where multiple options are not available. But taking away the options for others is never a good thing. Live and let live, don't try to control how other people want to play.
Apparently you haven't read the thread beyond the title.
There are games where 'heavy' armour is a full-body covering for male characters and steel lingerie for female ones.
TERA Online
Google images will provide more examples.
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If you don't like "sexy" armor then don't wear it. I have yet to see a game where multiple options are not available. But taking away the options for others is never a good thing. Live and let live, don't try to control how other people want to play.
I'm all for options. What I do not like - and sincerely hope GoblinWorks doesn't implement - is the practice of the same piece of armor having gendered appearances: chainmail hauberk on a male character and chainmail bra on a female. Each piece of armor should have the same representation (coverage, practicality/sex appeal) regardless of which gender is wearing it. Skimpy armor should be skimpy on both genders; full-coverage armor should be full-coverage on both genders.
Why not just make it a personal option in graphics, and create two different skins.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Doubled work for the art asset team?
Why not just take both recommendations as sentiments of advice from different interests and let the devs take both as valuable community input?
We don't get to decide anyway. I suspect the company has a pretty good idea whether they want to sell a Victoria's Secret catalog or a 'Prim and Proper' vision anyway.
Hey... I have an idea! How about a third recommendation that they make a fantasy RPG!
We don't get to decide anyway. I suspect the company has a pretty good idea whether they want to sell a Victoria's Secret catalog or a 'Prim and Proper' vision anyway.
Being, usually I really enjoy reading your posts, but I'm very, very tired of non-sexualized female (and it's almost always female) armor being characterized as "prim" (or "puritanical", as another poster characterized it).
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Goblin Squad Member
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It's simple. Consequences.
If you want sexy middrif-baring armor, then it will have less protection than armor that actually works.
I can see a case for some mitigation of that 'realism' rule if it is magical armor. But it has to be much easier to create equivalent protection armor if you start with some real protection underneath the magical layers.
Basically, if you are too sexy for your shirt, then take it off. You can always get a ring of protection if you like. Or you can take your chances. But people who wear more armor should get more protection, all else being equal.
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I can see where the word puritanical can be applied...... alot of the posters in tis thread are advocating punishing people who will be paying to play this game by penalising them if they dare to have character in skimpy armour.
People should be allowed to choose especially if they are playing a fantasy game with realistic stuff like dragons and elves and shit.
I prefer realistic armour, i just want people to be able to choose without fear of penalty, just so we are clear.
I don't like it when people impose the view your fun is inferior to my belief and seek to penalise them as well, that is what Christmas, Pub, and Game banning Puritans did and that is why they were kicked out of England.
Yay for Charles II.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Apparently you haven't read the thread beyond the title.There are games where 'heavy' armor is a full-body covering for male characters and steel lingerie for female ones.
And apparently you did not read the part where I said: " I have yet to see a game where multiple options are not available" Meaning me. I have not seen it in other games, though I concede that others may have.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I don't like it when people impose the view your fun is inferior to my belief and seek to penalise them as well
The problem with that view is by saying it you effectively do the same thing you are complaining about. By saying skimpy armor shouldn't carry realistic penalties you impose your own view about armor on them just as they do to you.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Skimpy armor is an oxymoron. That being said, skimpy armor should have skimpy armor class and essentially be ceremonial in purpose.
I would be interested to see if it were possible for a game designers to limit female characters to female players and vice versa. I suppose they could do it through the registration process, and assume that the person would more likely be honest when listing their gender.
Yes I know that old be restricting a player's freedom to RP the opposite gender, but it would also be interesting to see a female avatar and be nearly assured it was in fact a female.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm genuinely confused why would want to limit gender to RL gender. Unless youre intending some sort of romantic encounter with them, their gender should be utterly irrelevant to you.
Even then I've had a character in a romance with a male character played by a female. She was more comfortable playing males. Why would you take that away from her?
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm genuinely confused why would want to limit gender to RL gender. Unless youre intending some sort of romantic encounter with them, their gender should be utterly irrelevant to you.
Even then I've had a character in a romance with a male character played by a female. She was more comfortable playing males. Why would you take that away from her?
I merely mentioned that it would be interesting, but was pretty clear that I understood that would limit the freedom of others to RP the opposite gender.
I wonder what the true population would be, maybe 5% female?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Hard to say: I expect the real female population will be actually higher than whatever is the norm so long as the world is not too unattractive. My reasoning is the range of things to do & social interaction on the order of second life should be possible, except with magic.
Hard to predict what the ladies will make of it.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'd say it's closer to 30-40% these days, but who knows for this particular game. I know that my guild in TERA had several women playing with their partners/ family members, but then it might have been skewed by the nature of the guild. Or maybe TERA just appealed to more women, don't know.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'd say it's closer to 30-40% these days, but who knows for this particular game. I know that my guild in TERA had several women playing with their partners/ family members, but then it might have been skewed by the nature of the guild. Or maybe TERA just appealed to more women, don't know.
That was roughly the percentage of female players when I played Living Greyhawk something like one third females at conferences. More like half of the GMs were female and the highest level, most powerful, druid in the region of 300 odd players was a 15 year old girl. (This was back at a time when druids ruled in combat. When asked why she rarely played that character she said "it was boring, you just wildshape Hydra and munch everything".)
Many many people roleplayed the opposite gender just for fun. One of the funniest (but totally lethal in combat) characters was a cross dressing half orc barbarian. I had a female gnome paladin myself, she was a valley Girl and a bit of a fashion nazi, great fun to play.
If people are deluded enough to try and instigate real world romantic/sexual encounters through a game character let them go for it but do not limit the role play possibilities of everyone else just to encourage people looking for online dating - there are websites for that :D
The problem with that view is by saying it you effectively do the same thing you are complaining about. By saying skimpy armor shouldn't carry realistic penalties you impose your own view about armor on them just as they do to you.
I don't like it when people impose the view your fun is inferior to my belief and seek to penalise them as well
No the difference is the "punish the skimpy people" faction gain nothing except satisfaction of "setting something to right or how it should be" at the expense of other people who generally think that people should have the freedom to choose how their character looks.
To boil it down for you, you have people dictacting what other people can and can't wear in a game and penalising people for a view different to your own.
You should allow choice and if people wearing stripper armour in a fantasy game offends you write a mod that puts everybody in realistic armour.
Don't go punishing people, it's not cool and un fun.
Also I prefer realistic armour but if the people I am playing with dont I am not growing to have a cow about it.
Just to restate all characters male and female should have a choice between realistic and fantasy armours in a fantasy game nobody should be forced to wear stripper wear.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The problem with that view is by saying it you effectively do the same thing you are complaining about. By saying skimpy armor shouldn't carry realistic penalties you impose your own view about armor on them just as they do to you.
I don't like it when people impose the view your fun is inferior to my belief and seek to penalise them as well
No the difference is the "punish the skimpy people" faction gain nothing except satisfaction of "setting something to right or how it should be" at the expense of other people who generally think that people should have the freedom to choose how their character looks.
To boil it down for you, you have people dictacting what other people can and can't wear in a game and penalising people for a view different to your own.
You should allow choice and if people wearing stripper armour in a fantasy game offends you write a mod that puts everybody in realistic armour.
Don't go punishing people, it's not cool and un fun.
Also I prefer realistic armour but if the people I am playing with dont I am not growing to have a cow about it.
Just to restate all characters male and female should have a choice between realistic and fantasy armours in a fantasy game nobody should be forced to wear stripper wear.
I am all for striper plate being present in game (in addition to the more "realistic" kind). If someone, male or female, wants to choose to buy and wear armor with all the penalties and none of the protection (unless magical of course)...I agree with you, they should have that choice.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Yay for Charles II.
Um...celebrating intolerance isn't cool usually. Particularly from someone who is loudly demanding tolerance.
Anyway, this has nothing to do with that, so quit using straw men arguments. I don't care about how skimpy it is, I don't care if it offends others, I don't care what rating it gets.
I do care that the game be built with verisimilitude and the attending consequences of choices related to it. It is a game design question and has nothing to do with how free-minded anyone considers themselves.
You should allow choice and if people wearing stripper armour in a fantasy game offends you write a mod that puts everybody in realistic armour.
It is just as possible for you to run a nude mod, no?
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think there can be plenty of sexy items that don't need to be skimpy too.male and female.
Yes. Both.
And I still think heavy armor should come with penalties anyway, so all armor is a compromise between defence, speed and endurance. So skimpy has its place as much as full platemail.
Yay for Charles II.Um...celebrating intolerance isn't cool usually. Particularly from someone who is loudly demanding tolerance.
Anyway, this has nothing to do with that, so quit using straw men arguments. I don't care about how skimpy it is, I don't care if it offends others, I don't care what rating it gets.
I do care that the game be built with verisimilitude and the attending consequences of choices related to it. It is a game design question and has nothing to do with how free-minded anyone considers themselves.
You should allow choice and if people wearing stripper armour in a fantasy game offends you write a mod that puts everybody in realistic armour.It is just as possible for you to run a nude mode, no?
Where do you draw the line with your verisimilitude?
Serious question....
Do we want to get into a discussion about rain, rust, weapon and armour maintance.
If we are going to handwave having to repair your gear after a fight or the fact that your hair and clothes don't get burnt away by a fire ball, what about those heavy robes and your spell book when you go swimming.
When we make way for something's that are obviously not realistic in game why is somebody looking like Conan in his +5 platemail jockstrap any different to Fizban fireballing the party and having nothing burn?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Yay for Charles II.Um...celebrating intolerance isn't cool usually. Particularly from someone who is loudly demanding tolerance.
Anyway, this has nothing to do with that, so quit using straw men arguments. I don't care about how skimpy it is, I don't care if it offends others, I don't care what rating it gets.
I do care that the game be built with verisimilitude and the attending consequences of choices related to it. It is a game design question and has nothing to do with how free-minded anyone considers themselves.
You should allow choice and if people wearing stripper armour in a fantasy game offends you write a mod that puts everybody in realistic armour.It is just as possible for you to run a nude mode, no?Where do you draw the line with your verisimilitude?
Serious question....
Do we want to get into a discussion about rain, rust, weapon and armour maintance.
If we are going to handwave having to repair your gear after a fight or the fact that your hair and clothes don't get burnt away by a fire ball, what about those heavy robes and your spell book when you go swimming.
When we make way for something's that are obviously not realistic in game why is somebody looking like Conan in his +5 platemail jockstrap any different to Fizban fireballing the party and having nothing burn?
Or we could really get the whole "medieval fight club versus fantasy hippy" flame war going and bring up spiked chains :D
Yay for Charles II.Um...celebrating intolerance isn't cool usually. Particularly from someone who is loudly demanding tolerance.
Anyway, this has nothing to do with that, so quit using straw men arguments. I don't care about how skimpy it is, I don't care if it offends others, I don't care what rating it gets.
I do care that the game be built with verisimilitude and the attending consequences of choices related to it. It is a game design question and has nothing to do with how free-minded anyone considers themselves.
You should allow choice and if people wearing stripper armour in a fantasy game offends you write a mod that puts everybody in realistic armour.It is just as possible for you to run a nude mode, no?Where do you draw the line with your verisimilitude?
Serious question....
Do we want to get into a discussion about rain, rust, weapon and armour maintance.
If we are going to handwave having to repair your gear after a fight or the fact that your hair and clothes don't get burnt away by a fire ball, what about those heavy robes and your spell book when you go swimming.
When we make way for something's that are obviously not realistic in game why is somebody looking like Conan in his +5 platemail jockstrap any different to Fizban fireballing the party and having nothing burn?
Or we could really get the whole "medieval fight club versus fantasy hippy" flame war going and bring up spiked chains :D
You bring the chains and chips I will bring the whips and dip.
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Where do you draw the line with your verisimilitude?
Micco sounds like he takes his verisimilitude seriously. He probably wants snack and toilet breaks as well. How would that be for verisimilitude?
May be lighten up and take the joke?
Personally, bring on the fantasy element. If that means +5 mail bikinis or jockstraps, so be it. Leave it up to the players what they want to wear without penalty.
I am keen to get a dwarf fighter-type out there bristling with armor spikes sprouting from his plate armor and wielding an inappropriately large axe or two. Bathing totally optional!
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Goblin Squad Member
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Where do you draw the line with your verisimilitude?Micco sounds like he takes his verisimilitude seriously. He probably wants snack and toilet breaks as well. How would that be for verisimilitude?
May be lighten up and take the joke?
Personally, bring on the fantasy element. If that means +5 mail bikinis or jockstraps, so be it. Leave it up to the players what they want to wear without penalty.
I am keen to get a dwarf fighter-type out there bristling with armor spikes sprouting from his plate armor and wielding an inappropriately large axe or two. Bathing totally optional!
Its +5 Cod Pieces guys not banana boats or jock straps.
They look like this:http://artofmanliness.com/2011/04/01/bringing-back-the-codpiece/
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Goblin Squad Member
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People seem to be forgetting something about Chainmail Bikinis. People tend to hit where they look. So woman only need to protect their breasts as that is where everyone is looking anyway.
In all seriousness though. Hot "skimpy" armor on female characters better looking to more gamers then "realistic" armor. Even stait woman have a tendence to like the look of the "skimpy" armor over the more realistic armor. (Woman are just better looking the men.)
And don't forget this simple truth. Sex Sells.