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One thing Pathfinder lacks is a dedicated shapeshifter. This is an attempt to do such, via an archetype.
The short version is that this archetype gives up Natures Bond and a spell per spell-level a day, gains an extra Wild Shift a day, and all the shapeshifts that it otherwise lacks, and its spontaneous casting becomes of those shapeshifting spells.
The long version is:
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Wild Shape(Su)
The Wildshape Master gains Wild Shape ability at 2nd level, rather than 4th. At 2nd level, the character can only use this ability to turn into a small or medium humanoids. This ability functions like the Alter Self spell, except that it otherwise follows the usual changes of the Wild Shape ability (longer duration, shifting being a standard action that doesn't provoke). The character can use this ability an additional time per day at 4th level and every two levels thereafter, for a total of nine times at 18th level. At 20th level, a Wildshape Master can use wild shape at will.
The character gains the usual progression for other forms — small and medium animals at 4th level, large and tiny animals or small elementals at 6th, and so forth.
This ability replaces Nature's Bond, and incorporates the normal Wild Shape ability of the Druid class.
Focused Shapeshifter
The Wildshape Master focuses on shapeshifting to the point that their spellcasting is weaker than a normal Druid's; from 2nd level onwards they can cast one spell less per day of each spell level. In return for this focus, the character learns to shapeshift into forms inaccessible to normal druids.
At 5th level, the Wildshape Master can use wild shape to turn into a small or medium monstrous humanoid, this functions as Monstrous Physique I
At 7th level, the Wildshape Master can use wildshape to turn into a small or medium vermin or a tiny or large monstrous humanoid. This functions as Vermin Shape I or Monstrous Physique II respectively
At 8th level, in addition to the normal Wild Shape ability to turn into Huge or Diminutive animals, the character can also turn into Small and Medium magical beasts (still using the rules for Beast Shape III).
At 9th level, the Wildshape Master can use wildshape to turn into a Tiny or Large vermin or a diminutive or huge monstrous humanoid. This functions as Vermin Shape II or Monstrous Physique III respectively
At 11th level, the Wildshape Master can use wildshape to turn into a Tiny or Large magical beast or a medium chromatic or metallic dragon. This functions as Beast Shape IV or Form of the Dragon I respectively. Additionally, when the Wildshape Master takes the form of a monstrous humanoid, that ability functions as Monstrous Physique IV.
At 13th level, the Wildshape Master can use wildshape to turn into a large chromatic or metallic dragon or a Large humanoid creature of the giant subtype. This functions as Form of the Dragon II or Giant Form I respectively.
At 15th level, the Wildshape Master can use wildshape to turn into a Huge chromatic or metallic dragon or a Huge creature of the giant subtype. This functions as Form of the Dragon III or Giant Form II respectively.
Quick-shift (Su)
Sometimes you don't need a form for an extended period; you just need that one appendage or ability for a few moments. From 3rd level onwards, the Wildshape Master may channel stored spell energy into a quick shift. The character can expend a prepared spell of the appropriate level or higher in order to cast one of the following spells:
Spell level
2nd: Alter Self
3rd: Beast Shape I, Monstrous Physique I
4th: Beast Shape II, Monstrous Physique II, Elemental Body I, Vermin Shape I
5th: Beast Shape III, Monstrous Physique III, Elemental Body II, Vermin Shape II, Plant Shape I
6th: Beast Shape IV, Monstrous Physique IV, Elemental Body III, Plant Shape II, Form of the Dragon I
7th: Elemental Body IV, Plant Shape III, Form of the Dragon II, Giant Form I
8th: Form of the Dragon III, Giant Form II
This ability is a standard action that provokes attacks of opportunity, but which may be activated when in Wild Shape or otherwise polymorphed. If the character uses this ability whilst wild shaped, the form from this ability replaces their current wild shape form for its duration. However, the duration of the wild shape stays active (and keeps counting down), and if the form-change from this ability ends before the wild shape's duration has expired, the character reassumes their wildshape form.
An example; Marmaduke the Wildshape Master is flying along as a Huge Dragon. However, to get to where he needs to be, he needs to travel through a human-sized 500 yard long tunnel. So, he lands near the entrance, expends a 3rd level spell to turn into a cheetah, quickly moves through the tunnel, then on the other side he dismisses the spell and turns back into a dragon.
This ability replaces Spontaneous Casting.
Shifter's Speech (Ex):
The Wildshape Master learns how to communicate in all forms; at 4th level the character may speak any normal spoken language in any form he takes. Other languages, such as sign language, require him to have appropriate appendages or to otherwise reasonably be able to do whatever is required to communicate in that form.
This ability replaces Resist Nature's Lure.
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So, does it look balanced? It's very focused on shapeshifting, sacrificing a lot of breadth in order to shapeshift better.
In terms of the forms themselves, the only things that seem possibly overpowered are:
— the ability to combine your own equipment with strong forms via Giant Form and possibly the later Monstrous Physiques
— a couple of abilities, when the form lasts hours rather than minutes - regeneration from Giant Form I, and breath weapon every 1d4 rounds from Form of the Dragon III.
Both seem strong, but I don't think they're overpowered at the levels you get them. Other people's opinions on that would be appreciated. Indeed; I'm after any feedback I can get on this — overall it feels like a character who by the mid-levels has a form for most of the situations you run into, but has given up much in terms of spellcasting and other stuff (animal companion/domain), that that's most of their schtick.
Turning into a Human is considered a wild shape?
Considering the only real benefits of that would be moving around your ability modifier with no net gain, it's not worth the loss of an animal companion/extra spells and domain abilities.
well i like it
Turning into a Human is considered a wild shape?
Alter self is added to the list of options, yes.
Considering the only real benefits of that would be moving around your ability modifier with no net gain, it's not worth the loss of an animal companion/extra spells and domain abilities.
The benefits are:
— pass as that race— Gain any of darkvision 60 feet, low-light vision, scent, and swim 30 feet that that race has.
— Choose between small and medium size, with associated bonuses.
— An additional Wild Shape a day
Also, the intention is not that those benefits precisely map onto losing the domain/animal companion.
The intention is that the overall benefits of the class (more wild shapes, spontaneous short shifts, more things to turn into) are about the same as the overall losses/downsides (no animal companion/domain, one less spell per spell level, no spontaneous summons)
I'm reasonably sure that it should lose the Natures Bond, what I'm unsure of is whether it needs to have less spells as well.
well i like it
Thank you. Any extra abilities you think it could use?
would allowing a late level ability to affect another creature with your wildshape, at a double round cost, be too unbalancing? you could even limit the shapes to lesser beast shape spells.
I definitely like it. Giving up the domain/companion is more than likely necessary for this much adaptability.
Aye, it seems the core thing to give up if you're taking the class in a noticeably different direction, which this class is. Still not sure on the spell loss though.
I love the spontaneous casting replacement,
I was debating giving it unlimited uses/day of the lowest level forms, and then slowly racking that up through the levels, but I was worried that could have issues, and then realised letting you do it through spells allowed you a large amount of low level uses, whilst still costing you scarce resources, and allowing clever tricks like taking a small form to get into somewhere, then just resuming your big form.
and the Resist Nature's Lure trade-off is a nice bonus.
The class needed an ability to communicate, 'cause from fairly early on you're likely to spend most of your time in Wildshape form. And Resist Nature's Lure is something that's useful but sufficiently non-essential that it seemed a fair tradeoff.
Question though, is the Thousand Faces ability of the normal druid still there, replaced or expanded at all? Even just expanded to be used in any form, not just your normal one? Swapped out for a faster quick-shift ability, like a bard's performance? That might be too open to breaking though, but could really emphasise the specialisation.
At the moment, it's unaltered. Wasn't that sure if to do anything with it, and thought it was vaguely useful to have unlimited shifts of something as an option. Possibly make it make Wild Shaping and/or Quick Shift into a Move action? Dunno. There's the Quick Wild Shape feat which does something similar, which people are likely to have taken by that point.
I don't know, as it is I really like it anyway.
Thanks. Have been pondering ideas for it for quite a long time, and I think I've finally found the way to make it work.
would allowing a late level ability to affect another creature with your wildshape, at a double round cost, be too unbalancing? you could even limit the shapes to lesser beast shape spells.
Hmmm. I'm not sure. Potentially, I think it could be, especially given the equipment using forms. Mostly, I don't see it as something the class needs, and I think it's sufficiently questionable balance-wise to avoid.
would allowing a late level ability to affect another creature with your wildshape, at a double round cost, be too unbalancing? you could even limit the shapes to lesser beast shape spells.Hmmm. I'm not sure. Potentially, I think it could be, especially given the equipment using forms. Mostly, I don't see it as something the class needs, and I think it's sufficiently questionable balance-wise to avoid.
Apologies for the triple-post, but can't edit the earlier post, and wanted to add that I've just spotted the spell Animal Shapes, which allows for transforming others for hours/level, as a level 8 spell. Thus, it could be reasonably added to the class, as an ability somewhere around 15-17, or something like that.
Apologies for the triple-post, but can't edit the earlier post, and wanted to add that I've just spotted the spell Animal Shapes, which allows for transforming others for hours/level, as a level 8 spell. Thus, it could be reasonably added to the class, as an ability somewhere around 15-17, or something like that.would allowing a late level ability to affect another creature with your wildshape, at a double round cost, be too unbalancing? you could even limit the shapes to lesser beast shape spells.Hmmm. I'm not sure. Potentially, I think it could be, especially given the equipment using forms. Mostly, I don't see it as something the class needs, and I think it's sufficiently questionable balance-wise to avoid.
thats the spell that gave me the idea, actually :). oh and "bump"
thats the spell that gave me the idea, actually :). oh and "bump"Apologies for the triple-post, but can't edit the earlier post, and wanted to add that I've just spotted the spell Animal Shapes, which allows for transforming others for hours/level, as a level 8 spell. Thus, it could be reasonably added to the class, as an ability somewhere around 15-17, or something like that.would allowing a late level ability to affect another creature with your wildshape, at a double round cost, be too unbalancing? you could even limit the shapes to lesser beast shape spells.Hmmm. I'm not sure. Potentially, I think it could be, especially given the equipment using forms. Mostly, I don't see it as something the class needs, and I think it's sufficiently questionable balance-wise to avoid.
Hmmm. In theory, using that spell as a basse, I could give it the ability to affect others with either its wildshape or the quickshape ability. I'd lean towards it just being quickshape, as that makes it less strong, as it has a shorter duration.
Based on that spell, you get the following:
Level 11 Multi-person Alter Self
Level 13 Multi-person Beast Shape I)
Level 15 Multi-person Beast Shape II)
Level 17 Multi-person Beast Shape III)
Level 19 Beast Shape IV)
Or something like that.
But I'm not sure what you'd give up to get that, it's pretty powerful (And would be even more so with monstrous humanoid or giant shifts). And I just don't see it as *needed* by the class.
while not necessarily needed, it would increase the contribution the druid has to the party as a whole. actually the ability might be more balanced if you decreased spellcasting by one spell/ level, so i guess it could be iffy to include or not. I guess i would just love my evil group of adventurers to be able to transform and become this.
while not necessarily needed, it would increase the contribution the druid has to the party as a whole. actually the ability might be more balanced if you decreased spellcasting by one spell/ level, so i guess it could be iffy to include or not. I guess i would just love my evil group of adventurers to be able to transform and become this.
Mmmm. I can see where you're coming from, but I think "Can shapeshift into just about anything" and "Can make all his friends shapeshift with him" are sufficiently different concepts that the latter is worth its own seperate archetype.
while not necessarily needed, it would increase the contribution the druid has to the party as a whole. actually the ability might be more balanced if you decreased spellcasting by one spell/ level, so i guess it could be iffy to include or not. I guess i would just love my evil group of adventurers to be able to transform and become this.Mmmm. I can see where you're coming from, but I think "Can shapeshift into just about anything" and "Can make all his friends shapeshift with him" are sufficiently different concepts that the latter is worth its own seperate archetype.
true enough
true enoughwhile not necessarily needed, it would increase the contribution the druid has to the party as a whole. actually the ability might be more balanced if you decreased spellcasting by one spell/ level, so i guess it could be iffy to include or not. I guess i would just love my evil group of adventurers to be able to transform and become this.Mmmm. I can see where you're coming from, but I think "Can shapeshift into just about anything" and "Can make all his friends shapeshift with him" are sufficiently different concepts that the latter is worth its own seperate archetype.
I could see an archetype based around that, possibly with the ability to do it to your summons, or with an easy to shapeshift animal companion as being quite effective.
I like it a lot, but I'm not sure it's necessary to take Nature's bond. Monstrous form is cool/flavorful, but it doesn't actually gain the druid much (anything?) over the normal forms. The shifter flavor also seems more 'beastial' to me, for which a pet seems more thematically appropriate. The reduced casting itself is a pretty stout cost (especially since they also got things to spend the remaining slots on, which is sorta a double-whammy)
Montrous Physique and Giant Form allow you to carry on using all of your equipment, and have several abilities that the Beast Shape lacks (including Regeneration on the latter).
To me, this archetypes bond with nature is through shapeshifting into all these forms, not from a companion or domain. I also worry that a double charge from Druid and companion could be too powerful.
I've basically come around to the idea that it doesn't need the casting reduction, and I'd rather make it so that it has full normal spells per level, than give it the Natures Bond back.
The only thing I see wrong is that your giving up nature's bond at level two....but you gain nature's bond at first level...if someone already mentioned that sorry. I kinda skimmed alot of the later posts in my half asleep state.
You lose the Nature's bond class feature for taking this archetype. At level two, you gain its replacement. I could probably shift it down to gaining Alter Self at Level 1, so you have something there. TBH, it's incredibly rare for me to play in games that start at level 1, so it's not something I thought about that much.
Other than that it reminds me of the "master of many forms" prc from 3.5 which i really liked, and nothing really seems unbalanced. overall it looks good i think.
Aye, I was aiming for something to take the place of the MoMF. I'd thought of just doing a 10 level PrC, but having discussed it with friends, and looked at it, I decided this was better.
Have had it pointed out to me that I've left out Undead Anatomy, the 'turn into an undead' spell. As currently laid out, that would probably go in with Undead Anatomy I at 5th level, Undead Anatomy II at 9th level, Undead Anatomy III at 11th level and Undead Anatomy IV at 15th level. However I'm tempted to shift a form or two up or down a level, so you get new forms each level, rather than getting so many every other level.
I'm also thinking that the 'lose a spell of each level' thing should be dropped, and that it should swap the Thousand Faces (or whatever the Alter Self at will ability is called) for being able to Wild Shape as a move action.
In regards to Thousand Faces, you might as well just give Quick Wild Shape as a bonus feat instead of making a unique class feature that does the same thing. I think you should keep the reduced casting though, as the variety of shapes and how often you can take them really makes this seem like a more melee oriented archetype.
Druids, and anything to do with Undead, are two things that don't mix together.
I want this to cover all the shapeshifting options. And I've not actually seen that much anti undead stuff in the Druid.
In regards to Thousand Faces, you might as well just give Quick Wild Shape as a bonus feat instead of making a unique class feature that does the same thing
Except they don't do the same thing. This allows you to take all your forms, even the most powerful, as a move action.
OTOH, I can see where you're coming from
I think you should keep the reduced casting though, as the variety of shapes and how often you can take them really makes this seem like a more melee oriented archetype.
Should it get something in return for the reduced spellcasting though? The broadened wild shape options and extra shift a day seems a fair exchange for Nature's Bond, the quick shift seems a fair swap for spontaneous summons; is there anything that'd be good to give it in return for losing that spell per level each day?
It's one of the basic tropes of the Druid. They hate undead because 1. it violates the natural cycle and 2. They have no specific defenses against them.Druids, and anything to do with Undead, are two things that don't mix together.I want this to cover all the shapeshifting options. And I've not actually seen that much anti undead stuff in the Druid.
It's a common trope associated with them, but it's not an absolute requirement, and I could see a druid taking the form of an undead to sneak into a necromancers lair or similar. Overally, I'd say Druids would be against massed raising, but whether they're against the types of undead that arise 'naturally' as a result of actions and suchlike, I'd say that's less absolute.
Either way, the form's going in the PrC, at least when I use it.