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hello all,
I'm running the Anniversary edition of the Rise of the Rune Lords with a group of 5 players.
What advancement track would folks who've run this recommend? I throw in a few extra monsters to keep things interesting, but I don't want them to far behind the curve and I'm currently using the Medium track.
Thanks for any help!
What I'm doing is fast track, divided 4 ways, despite there being 5 PCs. I also grant "catch-up" XP if they reach a milestone without being the appropriate level. Sure, this makes granting XP pointless, as it's unlikely they'll level up before a milestone expects it, but I'm doing it because I'm curious to see what the results are. My goal is to encourage ignorance of the XP system, so that it doesn't motivate character actions. I see XP and levels as essentially being more about the introduction of complexity than I do about the gain of power. Now, I'll also add a minion here and there, increase the level of intelligence displayed by enemies in combat (in both the sense of their smarts and the sense of the data they have on the party, when applicable), and add gear to increase enemy power, and maybe swap out a feat or two. I do this without increasing the XP granted. So it's sort of like I am upping CR, and therefore XP, for the extra PC, but without actually doing the math on it. It's close enough. I don't always get full attendance, so I just wing it. And on that note, I grant XP even to absent characters. They're fluffed as being there, in an abstract sort of sense.
Other things that I'd recommend:
Do not use hero points (or use a less powerful but similar system).
Do not worry about adding enough extra loot to compensate for the larger party. This AP is quite generous. Do add loot, but with the mindset of using it to make bosses more powerful.
Use the tactics block as a rough idea, but don't feel bound to follow the tactics to the letter.
Due to the staggering amount of treasure this AP grants, don't just allow the PCs to buy whatever they want; use the settlement rules (Shameless plug: Don't like rolling? Use my handy generator).
I might even say to change Craft Wondrous Item -- I, for example, changed it to require Caster Level 13.
Disclaimer: my PCs are well optimized, so I may go overboard on certain things. Be sure to consider that when reading this.
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related to what you're asking: you could forgo XP all together and just level the party according to the Advancement Track information provided at the beginning of each chapter. I use this as a rough estimate of when to level. My group hasn't used XP in years.
-Skeld
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I am doing something like this. It's nice to not have one more thing to track and frees me to do GM stuff that is fun rather than bookeeping. I wholeheartedly recommend what Skeld says.
Also, other threads mention that RotRL is tough and does TPK parties so even with 5-6 I decided to only throw in an extra mook or 3 on the fly to challenge the party until I get a better handle on their ability (I am only one session into the AP now).
related to what you're asking: you could forgo XP all together and just level the party according to the Advancement Track information provided at the beginning of each chapter. I use this as a rough estimate of when to level. My group hasn't used XP in years.
-Skeld
Two observations:
1) If you assign xp per the AE encounters including story awards you end up almost exactly where the "advancement by milestone" method puts them. Check for yourself - it's not much effort to throw each award as called for by monster, trap, story, etc. into a spreadsheet and divide by pc accordingly. Caveat: predicated on 4 pc's and the fast track. And it assumes the pc's earn most if not all of the major story awards (which I won't detail here for spoiler reasons.)
2) As a result I would recommend using the milestone method. Transparent confession: I started using milestone and reverted to actual xp. Why? I'm old and not good with change and didn't trust the system. But so far, my pc's are spot on where the milestones call for them to be, even with a few minor adjustments (a few active zombies in Book 1, a few missed encounters in Book 2). I would definitely advocate for the milestone method if you have a number of pc's other than 4. That way you can worry about setting the challenges right without having to worry about xp.
I think that you end the first chapter about halfway in between levels 4 and 5, but I just used the milestones when I ran it.
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I addressed your comments in your other thread, but I'll repost it here too.
I understand what you're saying. My best advice is: don't worry about it. The game isn't a highly precise machine where all the parts have to be built to exacting tolerances to fit together. It's very fuzzy. If you're concerned that you players won't have enough XP to hit level 5, then just award them enough XP to make up the deficit and call it a "story award" for finishing the chapter.Alternatively, if you don't want to give them something for nothing, you can make up some extra encounters with goblins or ghouls or some other ttransitional threat to take them from Chapter 1 to Chapter 2 that will provide them the needed XP. Or, you can just have them start Chapter 5 at level 4 (on their way to level 5).
My point is, all the edges don't have to line up nicely and there are multiple ways you can address the XP disparity (with not addressing it at all being a perfectly valid approach).
-Skeld
-Skeld
I see nothing exclusionary between reaching 4th level and being nearly 5th level. I suspect you are reading a little too much into it. It doesn't say 'should just reach 4th level' or some other language that just scrapes you into 4th.
I've only just got my party to Thistletop so I have still to see how far into 4th it will take them. As others have said, if they look a little low i wn't lose any sleep over it. I'll just throw a little side-quest or maybe foreshadow pt3 with an encounter with ghouls.
EDIT: knew I'd seen it - check page 11 of the AE, bottom of the first column it discusses the advancement track, where it explicitly states that if your party are below the expected level to incorporate a few additional encounters.
hello all,
I'm running the Anniversary edition of the Rise of the Rune Lords with a group of 5 players.
What advancement track would folks who've run this recommend? I throw in a few extra monsters to keep things interesting, but I don't want them to far behind the curve and I'm currently using the Medium track.
Thanks for any help!
My best recommendation would be to skip the advancement tracks entirely and simply level the group up at the prescribed moments in the AP. Then, as far as encounters go, just always keep a another wave of mooks in your back pocket (which could be 5 more goblins, 1 more giant, whatever) and send them in whenever an encounter is going too easily. Consider maxing out your Boss's hit points as well in those big, crucial battles.
The AP isn't a cakewalk. If your group is not particularly experienced or especially well optimized, you might not have to do anything at all.
You all get what I'm saying here right? That according to the Advancement Track, one chapter ends at one level and the next chapter starts at the next level despite nothing having happened in between? A deficit of 4000 xp per player?
Okay, I think we (I) get it. I'll walk through how it went for my 4 player group. I'm putting it in a spoiler tag since I will mention several key plot points.
By the time my group had reached the end of Book 1, they were at 10,411 xp. Yes, I know that is 5th level. BUT I added the zombies in the Cathedral as actual combatants - because it didn't make any sense to me that Erylium would not find a way to get them free in 10,000 years especially since she's had the help of Nualia, Tsuto and the sinspawn since the runewell reawakened. My group got the story awards for neutralizing the runewell and rescuing Ameiko. They also defeated Malfeshnekor. Some of those outcomes are optional. Full disclosure: my group did not get xp for the Shopkeeper's daughter (though the Bard got other "awards") or for the Trouble at the Rusty Dragon (they did not interfere with Ameiko's confrontation with her father.) All in all my group could just as easily ended up just short of 10,000 at the end of Book 1.
The first few xp opportunities in Book 2 would easily put them over the 10,000 xp threshold. There are 1400 in story awards at the murder scene (Mill) another 400 for getting info out of Ibor Thorn and another 600 for getting background on the Sihedron from Quink. That's 2400 before they even leave town for the Sanitorium.
Unrelated aside: I didn't give my group any xp for the Sihedron "research" since it struck me as ridiculous the pc's wouldn't have already researched the Sihedron. They encounter it at least three times before book 2 - it's on the book the statue of Alaznist is holding, it is the shape of the key to Malfeshnekor's prison and it's on Nualia's medallion. I also find it implausible that Hemlock doesn't have the rune checked out with Quink on his own and pending how much the pc's have shared post Book 1, doesn't connect the rune with the pc's. But that's just me. I replaced the associated awards with role-playing/story awards for interacting with the noble families, mayor and Sczarni after the events of Thistletop.
I will argue the milestone progressions are correct: a group of 4 pc's should hit 4th level (6000xp) after clearing the ground level of Thistletop or shortly thereafter, should be close to or at 5th when they finish Thistelop (there are almost 18000xp of creatures on dungeon levels 1 and 2) and if not there, they definitely get to 5th level shortly after starting Book 2.
Okay, now I get it. Sorry to be slow - knowing the actual xp behind the math hides your issue.
You're saying the leveling guide in Book 1 says they get to 4th level by the end of that book. And the leveling guide of Book 2 says they get to 5th level just after starting that chapter leaving no possible explanation for how they earned the jump from 4 to 5. And yep, if you don't do the math on the "actual xp" there is no answer.
However, I think some of the answers here including mine suggest what you need to do. Either award 4th level in "the middle" of Thistletop (I suggest when they've cleared the ground level and before the enter dungeon level 1) or adjust the progression for Book 2:
- 5th level after the sanitorium and the Hambley farm
- 6th level after exploring the upstairs of the Foxglove Manor
- 7th level after getting to Magnimar and fighting the faceless stalkers at the Foxglove Townhouse
-8th level after finishing the book (cult and Xanesha) or early in Hook Mountain (Book 3) while fighting the Grauls.
Most likely you'll need to adjust these based on where in the story the players choose to rest, when a convenient level jump window occurs, etc.