It seems strange to me that every other Core Class employing magic can, except for Rangers and Paladins. Detecting magic seems to be the most elementary of things one would learn on the path to comprehending spell-casting. Anyone know? Is it a balance thing? Oversight?
Because neither of them get 0-level spells?
They do get other "0" level spells as "1st" level spells.
Ishmell- exactly, but not Detect Magic for some reason.
They probably figured they didn't fit with the flavor then. Almost all of the Ranger's spells are Nature/Survival based, and almost all of the Paladin's spells are Healing/Helping based.
Or maybe they just didn't want Rangers/Paladins wasting one of their whopping 4 1st level spells per day on something everyone else and their grandma can cast an unlimited amount of times, and even the prepared casters are going to have prepared every day. They are primarily combat classes after all.
I'd say flavor wise it works fine as a ranger or paladin spell. "I sense there is magic at work in these woods" says the ranger, "I feel a powerful necromantic aura in this evil looking dagger" says the paladin. And I don't buy that it was left out of the ranger and paladin list because it wasn't useful enough...
I'd say flavor wise it works fine as a ranger or paladin spell. "I sense there is magic at work in these woods" says the ranger, "I feel a powerful necromantic aura in this evil looking dagger" says the paladin. And I don't buy that it was left out of the ranger and paladin list because it wasn't useful enough...
On the other hand, that evil looking dagger may radiate evil, which a paladin can detect normally.
Not all Rangers employ magic; Skirmisher says hi.
Paladins don't need Detect Magic to know a Powerful Necromantic Aura exists in a random dagger that they come across. That's what Detect Evil is for.
The better question is why the heck would ether want to waste spells per day on it? Since they don't have 0-level spells it would not be unlimited casting like it is for proper casters.
Any other caster in the group should cover this need not ranger and paladin. Here is a hint, its a group based game. Detect magic is not a need they are meant to fill.
Because I said so.
I don't really see no one in the group having it as a valid concern. The majority of classes in PF have it and its is a game built from the ground up to have a 4 person party.
That means no one having it is a corner case at best and in that case sure house rule it. But it is not something that should be the standard. Again its a group game for a reason.
Not all Rangers employ magic; Skirmisher says hi.
Paladins don't need Detect Magic to know a Powerful Necromantic Aura exists in a random dagger that they come across. That's what Detect Evil is for.
Detect Evil is useful... if it's evil.
Detect Magic is useful...if it's magic.
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Rangers and Paladins I can understand, because they are not primary casters, and don't even gain spellcasting until after gaining a few levels.
The one I don't understand is the Alchemist. Not a core class, but they are still a primary caster of sorts. It would make sense if they could at least identify magic items other than potions.
I don't get why you'd want them(rangers and pallas that is)to. Just about any other caster can do it cheaper and easier than a 1st level spell. As for the alchemist trait 2-world magic, fixed...
It might have *limited* usefulness, but here's an example of how Detect Magic could be amazing to have as a Paladin.
Party of four: Wizard, Paladin, Rogue, Fighter.
Invisible bad guy casts Dominate Person on the Wizard and succeeds, uses telepathy to communicate. Party notices the Wizard is acting a little odd but is otherwise ok and they continue to explore the dungeon fighting monsters. In the moment of greatest need, Wizard turns on party and kills them.
I admit a bit of a contrived scenario, but if the Paladin could cast Detect Magic, they would have been able to feel an aura of enchantment magic and could confirm that something was amiss with the Wizard.
I'm pretty sure that's what detect charm is for.
I also reject the reasoning that because it's not particularly useful to have Detect Magic, it shouldn't be an option at all. With a spell as common and basic as Detect Magic, that explanation doesn't do wonders for the suspension of disbelief.
I'm pretty sure that's what detect charm is for.
Touche, but doesn't help those who don't allow a bunch of extra stuff from companion books, and wouldn't help if the Pally was a Ranger.
As a DM, I'd totally allow paladins and rangers to prepare those pesky detect magic spells if they would like (as a 1st-level spell, that is).
@LeDM: ^_^
Yeah, I'm thinking about allowing it too. As a 1st-lvl spell of course! :-) I just wanted to see if there was a reason behind denying it that I couldn't see, some balance issue, or internal magic-logic, or something....
Well for Paladins all unsanctioned knowledge to take it as the first lvl spell it allows.
Basically because detect magic is built into the niche of casters. Determining the nature of, identifying, dealing with magic, thats one of the key 'role' behaviors of a mage. While it's just a 0-level spell, it ties in with magic items, the spell craft skill, even to a degree countering magic, and dealing with enemy casters and such. It is probably the most used 0 level spell in the game.
Paladins and rangers fill other roles, 'caster' is a very small part of what they do. You could really say they are just lightly magic fighters. They dont have detect magic because it would step on the niche of primary casters for whom spell casting is a much bigger part of what they do.
Design Manager
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Basically because detect magic is built into the niche of casters. Determining the nature of, identifying, dealing with magic, thats one of the key 'role' behaviors of a mage. While it's just a 0-level spell, it ties in with magic items, the spell craft skill, even to a degree countering magic, and dealing with enemy casters and such. It is probably the most used 0 level spell in the game.
Paladins and rangers fill other roles, 'caster' is a very small part of what they do. You could really say they are just lightly magic fighters. They dont have detect magic because it would step on the niche of primary casters for whom spell casting is a much bigger part of what they do.
Something along these lines. I think thematically the idea is that Rangers and Paladins really just aren't casters. They're limited spellcasting is more of a divine boon to enhance their other abilities once they've reached a certain level. Detect Magic implies a certain familiarity with magic that the paladin and ranger just don't have. Where druids study the natural ways and clerics devote themselves to religious texts, paladins and rangers just hit a point where they've accrued enough divine commendation medals that the powers-what-be supplement their talents a bit. They're not really spellcasters and they don't have even the basic grounding in magical theory that other prepared casters have, or the intuitive knowledge that spontaneous casters have, but they get to enhance their abilities with a limited selection of spells.
Screw Detect Charm, that's what Sense Motive is for (and the Ranger SHOULD be investing in that at least a little, it's a damn useful skill and Wis is his casting stat).