Tied up creatures count as Pinned, and it is relatively difficult for them to escape from the ropes. If they have a friend however, it becomes much easier. But what about in the middle of combat? There's no Use Rope skill anymore, so what would the difficulty of this be?
It would suck to spend 2-3 rounds tying someone up just to have their friend walk up and untie them in a round. I suppose they could cut their friend out too, but at least that one can be fixed with Fortifying Stones.
Given the length of time that a round encompasses, I think it would take at least 2-3 rounds to have a reasonable chance of untying somebody... and would provoke AoO's (as you are concentrating on that knot and not the orc with the axe flailing away at you).
I have no rules support to back this up, and I have been shouted down often enough about my attempts to inject logic and reason into the game... so...
Given the length of time that a round encompasses, I think it would take at least 2-3 rounds to have a reasonable chance of untying somebody... and would provoke AoO's (as you are concentrating on that knot and not the orc with the axe flailing away at you).
I have no rules support to back this up, and I have been shouted down often enough about my attempts to inject logic and reason into the game... so...
Dang, I was hoping for an actual ruling. I agree with you that it seems like it should take several rounds, given that knots are typically harder to untie than tie, but I can't find evidence for this anywhere.
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A rope has 0 Hardness and 2 hit points per inch.
Pull out a Dagger, and cut the ropes.
Find out how here.
You have to think of it, like, if some dude/dudette does a grapple/pin/tie-up move and then runs away, the ropes are now the grappler on the target, only the ropes don't ever have to roll to maintain the condition.
The target still has to make an Escape Artist check that can be assisted by others (or some other check that I can't remember).
I believe the difficulty is set at something like 20 + the tie-up person's CMB score.
There's an actual ruling. Your ally can break ropes with a Strength check or use Escape Artist, and you can use the "Aid Another" action to assist your ally in doing so.
Ah, I misunderstood you. For clarification, you're saying that if Creature A is tied up, Creature B can then:
1) Aid creature A's check to escape.
2) Break A's ropes on it's own with a Strength check.
3) Remove(untie) A's ropes with an Escape Artist check.
4) Attack the ropes to deal damage.
Is there a page number for reference on these? Particularly #3.
A rope has 0 Hardness and 2 hit points per inch.
Pull out a Dagger, and cut the ropes.
Find out how here.
That's what the Fortifying Stones are for! Slap two on a rope and you get Hardness 10, 12 hp(and incidentally, also increase the break DC).
No, #3 was not one of my statements.
Okay, I guess I misunderstood you post. In that case, we come back to the original question. For the sake of clarity, let's assume A is tied up and unconscious, and B wants to untie him but lacks a cutting implement.
This makes creature B's only option is to untie A's ropes. How do we determine the difficulty of this? How do we determine how long it takes?
I suspect the "Vulnerability to Certain Attacks" clause within the damaging objects rules comes into play when using a Dagger to cut a rope.
I guess this is one of those table variation things, but if someone is spending thousands of gold to magically fortify an object's hardness, I don't see how a mundane dagger should be able to overcome that in any way.
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I suspect the "Vulnerability to Certain Attacks" clause within the damaging objects rules comes into play when using a Dagger to cut a rope.I guess this is one of those table variation things, but if someone is spending thousands of gold to magically fortify an object's hardness, I don't see how a mundane dagger should be able to overcome that in any way.
The binder could have spent considerably less gold to use manacles. It's reasonable that magic intended for this specific purpose should work just as well.
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Man, I covered this...
Okay, look. I'm not getting into the knife and cutting thing, I'll let BBT handle that.
Dude A: is tied up.
Dude B: is trying to help free Dude A.
Dudette C: is the one who tied up Dude A. Don't ask me, man.
Rope: is the rope being used to tie up Dude A.
Succubus: is there just because she makes every thread better.
Now, Dude A can only escape being Tied-up by one of two ways:
1. Successfully making an Escape Artist check against Rope.
2. Successfully making a CMB check against Rope.
Rope is keeping the Tie-Up condition on Dude A. For either check, Dude A must beat a DC that is 20 + the CMB of Dudette C. This DC score is now attributed to Rope, with Dudette C being able to scamper off and now do like whatever she wants rather than maintain the grapple/pin condition.
If Dudette C's CMB is higher than Dude A's CMB, then he cannot escape even on a natural 20 roll. He's sorta completely screwed unless he has Aid from other peeps or an Escape Artist score that is higher than his CMB.
All Dude B can do is Aid Another on Dude A. If he succeeds, Dude A can add +2 to his check roll that round. Succubus can entice Dude B not to help, but that's getting off topic, which I'm pretty good at doing.
So...that's how Dude A escapes. For the time taken, it's however many rounds it takes to make that roll.
And if I'm just totally wrong...be gentle. I cry easily.
Stuff
Hmm... okay, that makes sense. It seems a little odd that Dude B can't untie the ropes on his own, but it's far less odd than all the alternatives, so I'll run with that.
Thanks for the explanation.
No, thank YOU, you handsome devil, you.
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I would allow a disable device check (if they have it), or any other skill check that deals with rope normally (climb, profession sailor, profession succubus wrestler, etc).
Or just a simple dex check vs the rope DC if failing to have all else.
I know that this is not RAW as written, but how I would play it out.
I came to this post hoping for something to use as the DM of a situation where an NPC without a knife attempts to untie some hostages before a chandelier falls on them. I like the last suggestion best, to make use of Disable Device, since the ropes binding the hostages are technically a device.
What remains is to determine the DC. I'm thinking since the DC for a person to untie the ropes binding him/her is 20 + CMB of the one who tied the knots, than 10 + CMB would be appropriate for someone who is not bound by the ropes at the time. In this case, that works out to a DC of 18. The NPC has no disable device skill, but I'd allow the attempt untrained, since anyone can attempt to untie knots without special training. This character has a high dexterity, so she will get a +3 to the attempt. That works out to a 30% chance, which seems appropriate.