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With Mythic Adventures looming ever nearer on the horizon, it should come as no surprise that we'd like to do some new Golarion-specific player options for groups playing with mythic rules. As such, there's really no better time than the present to probe all your minds and find out what you'd like to see in an upcoming book about mythic player options in Inner Sea campaigns.
I'd like to split the discussion in this thread into two different topics:
1) What previously mentioned but impossible/inaccessible/problematic parts of Golarion would you like to see given the mythic Player Companion treatment? For instance, is there some faction or group we've mentioned somewhere that seemed mythic and piqued your interest beyond all reason? Perhaps you're curious what sorts of fell mythic powers your character could acquire by traveling to the Dark Tapestry, or maybe you've always wondered what a Herculean descendent of Cayden Cailean would have in the ways of mythic abilities. The sky's the limit!
2) What brand-spanking-new powers and options do you want to see for mythic characters? These kinds of things can either be Golarion-specific or completely unrelated. Walking on clouds? Creating desolate valleys in the jungle with just a shout? Lifting monuments out of the sea with your mind? If there's some power or awesome feat you've read about in a Pathfinder book and you were like, "Gee, I want to do that!" feel free to post it here for all to see!
There's no bad idea in a brainstorm, so let's see what you've got!
Three words for now, I'll try to come up with more later but first thing's first the words are:
OLIPHAUNT
OF
JANDERLAY.
It would be great to see some race specific mythic powers and feats. Things that would drive home the main 'themes' of each race. Undines and the other elemental races could get mythic element control abilities. Dampires could get some of those Mythic Vampire powers. Kitsunes still haven't gotten a whole slew of abilities from their legends, and some of these could be mythic such as possession, foxfire, and life drain. Maybe a mythic kobold would gain dragon related mythic powers...
The main races have started to become so 'ordinary' that I'm having trouble thinking of things for them though. I have no idea what sort of special options you would give a human for example, since I'm pretty sure everything in our own legends is the baseline for what everyone should have in the mythic rules, lol.
Off of the top of my head...
How to:
Mythic / Epic Curses – ex. the field of maidens
Mythic / Epic Construct Creation – ex. Quantium Golems
Mythic / Epic Towers or other "homes" – the Siege Tower of Nex or Baba Yaga's Hut
Mythic / Epic Side Effects – the mana wastes – how bad things have to get before they get THAT bad
Mythic / Epic New Effects & Guidelines – ex - the Sun Orchid Elixer
Also:
Guidelines for Mythic / Epic Wishes and how to break free and let wishes possibly be open ended as they were in prior editions of the world’s most popular roleplaying game™ for higher level / “more Mythic” play.
Most of all, I’d like to see Paizo’s take on Legacy items …
-TimD
Honestly none. I'd much prefer that upcoming mythic content be released in the Campaign Setting line rather than the player companions. Being mythic just has such far reaching consequences, that I think any book with information on the mythic system should be in the GM-friendly campaign setting books.
Edit: I guess what I'm saying is most of the mythic options should already be present in Mythic Adventures. It's hard to imainge Golarion-specific mythic abilities that would appear in companions since being mythic is such a unique and rare event, making it difficult for any of their capabilities being categorized in the context of Golarion.
Honestly, none.
This was my #1 objection to Mythic/Epic content - that, rather than a self-contained book that I could use or ignore as I chose(as the pro-Epic crowd suggested/insisted that i do), mythic/epic would bleed across the various Pathfinder lines. While I'm intrigued by Mythic where I was dead-set against Epic/post-20-play, I have zero desire to spend money across multiple subscriptions that I doubt I'll ever use, let alone want/need.
Also, if Mythic is very rare and only at the GM's discretion, there is no business in putting more Mythic content in the Companion line. Not that I particularly want to see it in the Campaign line, either.
Paizo produces a ton of content that I want, as evidenced by the number of subscriptions I enjoy. I'll try and reserve judgement, but between a Mythic-required AP & an AP bound for 20th-century Earth, the fact that so much content I'm not keen on is coming & accelerating in quantity is making me concerned. That trend spilling into the Companion line is not a positive sign to me.
Honestly, none.
This was my #1 objection to Mythic/Epic content - that, rather than a self-contained book that I could use or ignore as I chose(as the pro-Epic crowd suggested/insisted that i do), mythic/epic would bleed across the various Pathfinder lines. While I'm intrigued by Mythic where I was dead-set against Epic/post-20-play, I have zero desire to spend money across multiple subscriptions that I doubt I'll ever use, let alone want/need.
Also, if Mythic is very rare and only at the GM's discretion, there is no business in putting more Mythic content in the Companion line. Not that I particularly want to see it in the Campaign line, either.
Paizo produces a ton of content that I want, as evidenced by the number of subscriptions I enjoy. I'll try and reserve judgement, but between a Mythic-required AP & an AP bound for 20th-century Earth, the fact that so much content I'm not keen on is coming & accelerating in quantity is making me concerned. That trend spilling into the Companion line is not a positive sign to me.
I totally see where you're coming from, and we take this issue into consideration whenever we put new products on the schedule. While products in the Pathfinder RPG line are meant to stand alone as well as complement already existing products, we do like to allow for a certain amount of product tie-in too with the other lines. This is both a good business practice as well as a way to ensure as many people get to enjoy our crazy-awesome ideas as possible.
We certainly don't intend on making the entire Player Companion line mythic-only or anything like that, though. Currently, we only have plans for one Player Companion that features mythic rules, which in the grand scheme of things is not all that much (it'll end up being less than 10% of the Player Companion material we put out in 2013, after all). The goal is to provide even more awesome mythic options rooted in the world of Golarion for the players who want them, and then to get on with all the other cool stuff we have planned the next month.
It would be great to see some race specific mythic powers and feats. Things that would drive home the main 'themes' of each race. Undines and the other elemental races could get mythic element control abilities. Dampires could get some of those Mythic Vampire powers. Kitsunes still haven't gotten a whole slew of abilities from their legends, and some of these could be mythic such as possession, foxfire, and life drain. Maybe a mythic kobold would gain dragon related mythic powers...
The main races have started to become so 'ordinary' that I'm having trouble thinking of things for them though. I have no idea what sort of special options you would give a human for example, since I'm pretty sure everything in our own legends is the baseline for what everyone should have in the mythic rules, lol.
This is a great idea! If we ended up doing this, I can definitely see some cool mythic abilities for the races you mentioned as well as each of Golarion's human ethnicities (after all, a mythic Kellid would no doubt be quite a bit different than a mythic Taldan!).
This is a great idea! If we ended up doing this, I can definitely see some cool mythic abilities for the races you mentioned as well as each of Golarion's human ethnicities (after all, a mythic Kellid would no doubt be quite a bit different than a mythic Taldan!).
Yay! :D
Also, good point about doing it based on ethnicities, that could lead to some pretty interesting options for humans!
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Not really an option for the rulebook, but the possibility of having an mythic adventure path in which you character has the chance of becoming a god. Because I would love to know more details about the test of the Starstone and the interactions between the deities of Galorian.
Oh right! The test of the Starstone! I almost feel like paizo will never publish this on the grounds that nothing a human can come up with would be good enough to describe it (and it always changes) and I understand that concept... but some guidelines would be nice...
There are magic systems in books that let you do pretty much anything with magic. Like Garth Nix's Sabriel. Magic flows from a system of symbols representing words. If you meditate you can see the "charter", as it's called, and simply string together a sentence that describes what they want and it happens. Basically only bound by their vocabulary. Basically the Words of Power system but you know all the words.
So, mages without spell preparation limits are awesome, terrifying, and mythical in the golarion setting.
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Are there Mythic Powers which can be aquired through a pact with outerworldly creatures?
If so, what are the consequences if my pc don't hold up to the pact?
Does having mythic powers make you lonely, because ordinary people dont't want to - or just plainly fear to hang around with you?
Do mythic characters seek each other out? Do they somehow know of each other?
"There can be only one!" Rules for absorbing Mythic powers!
"There can be only one!" Rules for absorbing Mythic powers!
This rule exists actually. Or at least, this setting exists in the playtest, I don't remember how fleshed out it was.
Anyone else realize there is a an RPG out called Mythic already? Check it out at DrivethruRPG. I can see a serious legal hassle here...
More of the Mythic Path abilities and more variation between the the paths.
I would also like to see some sort of mythic spell crafting and mythic item creation. Could be a good time to expound on cursed items as those types of items can quickly become mythical. Think Elric's sword type of deal.
Mythic gladiator areas...like a colloseum.
I'd like to see some Mythic Villains.
Stat up some of the big bads that have haunted(literally and figuratively) the setting for a while, Tar-Baphon, Nex, etc. I want to see some truly Mythic enemies. Even if you just stat up one, it will give people ideas. Maybe a couple mythic allies as well.
Maybe some examples of mythic trials or moments of ascension that are Golarion/inner sea specific. Mythic adventure hooks are definitely good. Maybe some inner sea specific items.
Anyone else realize there is a an RPG out called Mythic already? Check it out at DrivethruRPG. I can see a serious legal hassle here...
I can't. The book Mythic Adventures that Paizo's putting out this summer isn't an RPG. It features a subsystem for an entirely different RPG, the Pathfinder RPG. And, while I'm certainly not a copyright/trademark specialist, I doubt the word "mythic" is a word a company can claim copyright for.
Also, I'd like to see travel to the plane of Abaddon and the Four Horsemen. I would actually like to see more about the mysterious 5th...the Oinodaemon. Mythic might be a good way to bring them in.
Looks like they listened to the need to expand options for characters; Pathfinder Player Companion: Mythic Origins (PFRPG) is coming out in the fall. More options - good!
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I know the epic skills stuff from the ELH was often reviled, but I thought it was pretty darn cool - the kind of stuff you expect to see from legendary characters. Walking on water (or clouds), squeezing through tiny openings, jumping incredible distances, etc. - I'd really love to see a section on mythic skill usage if it doesn't make it into the core mythic book.
Also, some kind of generalization of increasing spell effects would be cool, after all, pretty much every mass spell is just the same spell with level + 3; why not make that a form of metamagic available to mythic casters?
How about a feat like Signature Spellcasting. When you cast a spell, everyone knows that you personally cast it. Maybe you can add a personalized little tweak to it (the archmage Zarkovan's evocation spells all leave a lingering foul taint in the air that can sicken people, while High Priest Casanir's enchantments (like prayer and bless) actually provide fast healing 1 for their duration). But in a design-your-own sort of way so it's personalized.
Primarily, I want mythic player options to be cool. I'll take a cool option over a power-up option any day. In my mind, mythic games should look like the movies: Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, Sucker Punch (while lackluster, the fantasy combat scenes were outstanding) and Scott Pilgrim vs. The World all come to mind here, as do some of the fight scenes in the Lord of the Rings movies (but NOT The Hobbit, holy Mother of God were the scenes in Moria unfortunately video game like). Heck, the better X-Men movies are a good example too.
Just don't forget the poor GMs. There's ever more power-up material for PCs, and yet in years of development, we're not even close to books as awesome as Lords of Madness, Libris Mortis and Savage Species.
Creative Director
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Looks like they listened to the need to expand options for characters; Pathfinder Player Companion: Mythic Origins (PFRPG) is coming out in the fall. More options - good!
Either that, or we knew months ago that we were doing this book and asked folks here for what they'd like to see in the book without actually announcing that we were doing the book.
We're kinda cagey like that.
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Creative Director
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Just don't forget the poor GMs. There's ever more power-up material for PCs, and yet in years of development, we're not even close to books as awesome as Lords of Madness, Libris Mortis and Savage Species.
I disagree. I think we've done a LOT of cool GM books in the Campaign Setting Line. As one of the authors of Lords of Madness, I can say I worked just as hard as I did on Lords of Chaos, Magnimar, Into the Darklands, Demons Revisited, and the other books I helped write in that line as I ever did on Lords of Madness.
Sure, these books are shorter than Lords of Madness, but we're publishing a lot more of this type of book than WotC did.
I'd like to see some Mythic Villains.
Stat up some of the big bads that have haunted(literally and figuratively) the setting for a while, Tar-Baphon, Nex, etc. I want to see some truly Mythic enemies. Even if you just stat up one, it will give people ideas. Maybe a couple mythic allies as well.
Maybe some examples of mythic trials or moments of ascension that are Golarion/inner sea specific. Mythic adventure hooks are definitely good. Maybe some inner sea specific items.
While I quoted the above post (sorry to single it out), there are multiple posts like it in this thread. While I agree with most of these posts on all the awesome stuff that Mythic provides an opportunity to detail, I don't think a thread regarding the Player Companion line is the place to request this sort of stuff.
If you want these suggestion to have the most weight, it would probably be best to list them in a thread more GM appropriate. Speaking of which. . .
Just don't forget the poor GMs. There's ever more power-up material for PCs, and yet in years of development, we're not even close to books as awesome as Lords of Madness, Libris Mortis and Savage Species.
Really? I feel the complete opposite. Personally, I think Pathfinder has been great at producing tons of GM content while the player companion line has trailed slightly behind. And I say that as a GM. Granted, I'm not counting the hardcovers here but they're a pretty even split anyway.
Well you can always create an NPC using the Player Options for the PCs to fight.
For what it's worth...
... options for playing Mythic characters that are survivors of ancient realms like Azlant, Shory or Thassilon. This is both setting exploration (of the past, and you could also have flashback episodes) and additional mythic origin aspects. Also needs to elaborate on ways you can get immortal as a mythic character.
... Mythic Witch hex options.
... Mythic Alchemist discoveries, including the Sun Orchid Elixir.
... Mythic Bard songs.
... Mythic multiclass capacities, e.g. getting half-paced Rage track on your Mythic druid, or half-paced Alchemist extracts on your Mythic wizard.
... Dark Tapestry and the Old Cults: most definitely.
... how to make your own cool place like the Crux of Nex or Baba Yaga's Hut.
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I think the biggest draw would be all those previously unable to stat-out NPCs (Whispering Tyrant, Nex, Geb, maybe some revised Runelords).
Some ways of making characters Mythic in the lower power world of Golarion might be a good idea, such as being descended of Atzlani blood, finding a small fragment of the Starstone, being blessed by certain gods, etc.
I forget what the Greece analogue is called, but that place struck me as being a little more Mythic.
Just don't forget the poor GMs. There's ever more power-up material for PCs, and yet in years of development, we're not even close to books as awesome as Lords of Madness, Libris Mortis and Savage Species.
I disagree. I think we've done a LOT of cool GM books in the Campaign Setting Line. As one of the authors of Lords of Madness, I can say I worked just as hard as I did on Lords of Chaos, Magnimar, Into the Darklands, Demons Revisited, and the other books I helped write in that line as I ever did on Lords of Madness.
Sure, these books are shorter than Lords of Madness, but we're publishing a lot more of this type of book than WotC did.
I completely understand your point, but that's not what I mean. Plus, it's kinda hard for me to comment on Demons Revisited just yet :)
But what I mean is: I want options for the GM to customize creatures and encounters. Libris Mortis was chock full of this kind of stuff. Savage Species was a full-size hardcover about customizing monsters. And Lords of Madness was just cool from cover to cover, with no end of plot hooks and awesome information, even if it wasn't full of the sort of customization I'm talking about.
The Books of the Damned are some of my favorite Paizo publications, up there with Distant Worlds, Dragon Empires and Isles of the Shackles, but they are not the sort of customization-heavy book that Libris Mortis and Savage Species are. At this point in Paizo's evolution, I'm really hoping for something in the core line that will support a more toolbox approach.
It's why I tried to draw attention to Green Ronin's Kickstarter (I have NO idea why he embedded an AGE stretch goal in the middle of a Pathfinder Kickstarter [okay, well, I do, but I won't comment on it], but it's a damn shame that Chris Pramas wasn't forced to commit to an updated Advanced Bestiary).
Things like that are what I'm really yearning for. The setting stuff is amazingly good, but it's *not* the sort of toolbox stuff that I'm talking about, and I'm hoping that at some point such things will bubble to the top of the priority queue :)
I'd also love to see a mythic weapon/armor creation table.
-Perhaps needing a mythic version of a item creation feat. Allowing you to select from a list of weapon/armor enhancements, perhaps even forgoing your own mythic level ability or a specific ability in order to obtain it.
I just want to be Hephaestus...you know...without the lame foot.