+16 to any skill synthesist


Rules Questions


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Is it possilbe to use skilled evolution and aspect to get 2 x +8 on any skill ?
If so +40 spellcraft at lvl 10 with 20 charisma amd skill focus. Woohoo


Nope.

Quote:
Skilled (Ex): An eidolon becomes especially adept at a specific skill, gaining a +8 racial bonus on that skill. This evolution can be selected more than once. Its effects do not stack. Each time an eidolon selects this evolution, it applies to a different skill.


"Its effects do not stack" means that if you take it multiple times it doesn't stack with itself. I don't think the OP was proposing taking the skilled evolution more than once, so that sentence isn't really applicable here.


I'm going to agree on Nope, but for this reason.

Synthesist wrote:
The eidolon has no skills or feats of its own.

Skilled for the eidolon basically equates to Skilled for the summoner when fused. So, two +8 racial bonuses to it if they both take it.

At best, doing so would let a synth have it all the time, but at that point, the one on the eidolon is redundant anyway.

At least, that would be my reasoning.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Darkwolf117 wrote:

I'm going to agree on Nope, but for this reason.

Synthesist wrote:
The eidolon has no skills or feats of its own.

Skilled for the eidolon basically equates to Skilled for the summoner when fused. So, two +8 racial bonuses to it if they both take it.

At best, doing so would let a synth have it all the time, but at that point, the one on the eidolon is redundant anyway.

At least, that would be my reasoning.

Of course racial bonus, face palm

Thanks for the input

...although this may have ramifications with other racial bonuses and skilled/aspect


Psi51 wrote:

...although this may have ramifications with other racial bonuses and skilled/aspect

Indeed it would. Skilled on Perception with an Elf or Half-Elf means that +2 racial is being wasted.

Of course, on the other hand... +8


Actually, racial bonuses do stack, so a half-elf with Skilled (Perception) will get a total of +10.

Magic Section wrote:
Bonus Types: Usually, a bonus has a type that indicates how the spell grants the bonus. The important aspect of bonus types is that two bonuses of the same type don't generally stack. With the exception of dodge bonuses, most circumstance bonuses, and racial bonuses, only the better bonus of a given type works (see Combining Magical Effects).


Huh. Well, that's interesting...


Yeah, I think that's the most often forgotten case of stacking bonus types. Everyone remembers dodge bonuses stacking, racial ones not so much. I didn't remembered it until I checked before posting.


Drejk wrote:

Actually, racial bonuses do stack, so a half-elf with Skilled (Perception) will get a total of +10.

Magic Section wrote:
Bonus Types: Usually, a bonus has a type that indicates how the spell grants the bonus. The important aspect of bonus types is that two bonuses of the same type don't generally stack. With the exception of dodge bonuses, most circumstance bonuses, and racial bonuses, only the better bonus of a given type works (see Combining Magical Effects).

Good catch!


I believe a dev stated somewhere that any evolutions you have on your synthesist from Aspect cease to function when he assumes his eidolon form.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Matrix Dragon wrote:
I believe a dev stated somewhere that any evolutions you have on your synthesist from Aspect cease to function when he assumes his eidolon form.

Well unface palm for the racial bonus stack but damn for the devs ruling ... Source ? Technically not choosing skilled twice on the same entity ... Small hope left.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Damn. Drejk beat me to it. Dirty dragon ninja!


Psi51 wrote:
Matrix Dragon wrote:
I believe a dev stated somewhere that any evolutions you have on your synthesist from Aspect cease to function when he assumes his eidolon form.
Well unface palm for the racial bonus stack but damn for the devs ruling ... Source ? Technically not choosing skilled twice on the same entity ... Small hope left.

Ah, it seems that I may have been wrong. The faq I was probably thinking of referred to natural armor: Link


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Matrix Dragon wrote:
Psi51 wrote:
Matrix Dragon wrote:
I believe a dev stated somewhere that any evolutions you have on your synthesist from Aspect cease to function when he assumes his eidolon form.
Well unface palm for the racial bonus stack but damn for the devs ruling ... Source ? Technically not choosing skilled twice on the same entity ... Small hope left.
Ah, it seems that I may have been wrong. The faq I was probably thinking of referred to natural armor: Link

So +8 on the character and +8 on the "suit" may still be possible ?


Personally, I would still think not, back on Drejk's note that they specifically do not stack unless applying to different skills. Again, it would basically be the synthesist having the same evolution twice, which wouldn't 'stack' on its own, since it's said otherwise. The eidolon still doesn't have its own skills to add to the Synth's.

My interpretation of it anyway. I could certainly be wrong, though. Again :P


Nah, yours sounds right Darkwolf, and I agree not only for RAW, but also balance purposes.

The RAW says the effects do not stack. It does say you can select the evolution multiple times, but that even if you select one for each "form" of the character, whenever you select the evolution, it applies to different skill each time you select it (until you run out of skills to select, but that won't happen anytime soon)...

Seems pretty straight-forward to me; but of course, that's just me.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:

Nah, yours sounds right Darkwolf, and I agree not only for RAW, but also balance purposes.

The RAW says the effects do not stack. It does say you can select the evolution multiple times, but that even if you select one for each "form" of the character, whenever you select the evolution, it applies to different skill each time you select it (until you run out of skills to select, but that won't happen anytime soon)...

Seems pretty straight-forward to me; but of course, that's just me.

Fair enough thought it was to good to be true .


Psi51 wrote:
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:

Nah, yours sounds right Darkwolf, and I agree not only for RAW, but also balance purposes.

The RAW says the effects do not stack. It does say you can select the evolution multiple times, but that even if you select one for each "form" of the character, whenever you select the evolution, it applies to different skill each time you select it (until you run out of skills to select, but that won't happen anytime soon)...

Seems pretty straight-forward to me; but of course, that's just me.

Fair enough thought it was to good to be true .

To be honest with you, I find it a silly way to spend Evolution points (which I would view to be just as valuable as feats, more-or-less). Sure, the more bonuses to a skill, the better it is, though there comes a threshold where the more bonuses makes it wasted (and that it would be better spent elsewhere). With you suggesting a "+40 Spellcraft" (something that most magic items or spell identifications would only dream to reach by the end-game) would make it a little silly to spend those Evolution Points (or skill points) on something that you seem to already be dominating as it is.

It would probably be a wiser decision for you to spend that extra +8 on a Knowledge check, a Climb or Swim check that you may not be really great with, or some other thing you specialize with that is equally as important, but not as skilled with compared to Spellcraft. Or, you could spend the Evolution points on something more valuable than a +8 to one skill check.

But of course, that's just me, not the RAW of things.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

+16 to UMD would be pretty tasty though...


Or +16 to Acrobatics to avoid AoO when moving. And +16 would be a great bonus to the most useful skill in the game.

Spoiler:
Perception

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