Archetypes, aren't they exhausted already?


Homebrew and House Rules

Dark Archive

Looking at the extensive list of archetypes that already exist, the biggest challenge I've encountered is thinking of one that hasn't been covered yet.

How do you guys deal with that? Any advice would be great.


Read the setting material and brainstorm then check to see if it's been done before. Ponder your ideas (I'm sure there will be many), settle on a concept and write it up. Like it, work with it. Don't like it, next idea.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 16

The published Archetypes tend to be quite broad and somewhat generic. The contest would be a good opportunity for something a bit more niche. Personally I would consider an Archetype that would rarely be seen outside of the River Kingdoms.

In that regard the River Kingdoms is as about Chaotic Neutral as you can get. Half of it in anarchy. The other half is a constantly shifting power base. Personal freedom is in the culture. Heredity, social class, and feudalism is a minority. Lots of interesting border realms to work with. Lots of smaller sects, cults, guilds getting a piece of the pie. Also it is a good place for exiles, wanderers, and those wanting to not be found to go. Really there is quite a bit to work with.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

You are seriously asking if the collective imagination about what classes can be is exhausted.

Come up with a neat idea, independent of class, and then figure out which class it fits into best, and what sort of tweaks would be required to add the new powers and balance it.

Does it sound like a Fighter archetype? Will you give up Weapon Training? Armor Training?

You have the power to mutate any class into exactly the sort of experience you want to play.

A fully-Divine Bard?

A Ranger that loses his Bond and gains something like a Paladin bonded weapon?

A Monk that gets Abundant Step early, and gets Dimensional Dervish related feats for free at set levels in place of bonus feats.

You can (and should) also tie in lore or locations, especially with the focus on the River Kingdoms.

Will you make a bandit-like archetype? How will it be different than all the Rogues out there?

Razmiran is right on the border of the River Kingdoms, and the flavor/fluff there is fantastic.

Obviously, it has to fit in with the setting, and some of those examples already exist, but I'm just trying to convey how free form it all is.

You are only limited by your imagination here.


I have 10 summoner archetypes that I need to whittle down to a more managable number for an upcoming 3pp product.

So, no. Archetypes haven't been exhausted yet, although many of the lower hanging fruits have been taken.

Things that help me out: Digest media. Play video games. Read your favorite fantasy / sci-fi book. Watch a film or two. Keep an eye out for interesting things, and ponder them. This helps me by getting the seeds of ideas in my head, which eventually turn into full-fledged ideas.


Another interesting way to approach archetype design is to think of what sort of multiclass characters would be interesting, and then do something to make it attractive for one class to multiclass with your version of the second class.

For example, a Monk/Druid is a fairly standard multiclass from back in the 3.5-time, and it's still pretty powerful in Pathfinder.

Could you change the Monk class to be a little more Druish?

Could you change the Druid class to focus more on using your fists?

If you did either, you'd create a "natural multiclass", and make it so that anyone playing a Druid would at least consider dipping for a touch of Nature-Monk.

Aaaaaand that's enough helping the competition for me.


I think there's plenty of room for new archetypes in Pathfinder. If you've played any 3.5, there was a TON of base classes and prestige classes which Pathfinder has only come class to scratching. Lots of these could be converted into a more user-friendly archetype format. I wouldn't necessarily call a conversion like that Superstar, but it gives an idea of how much content can be generated for a game.


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
inverseicarus wrote:
Could you change the Monk class to be a little more Druish?

Funny, he didn't look Druish...

:-)


I have 8 archetypes in rough draft right now, three I can use for River Kingdoms. There's lots of things that haven't been done before.

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I thought that this was going to be a problem too, and was really disheartened by the twist as my knowledge of the River Kingdoms is very limited. But just a few reads through the wiki pages have given me four really cool ideas. The restriction of having to fit in the River Kingdoms actually gave me better ideas than when I was brainstorming prior to the announcement of the next round's twist.

Samuel Kisko was right. Think more niche.


Phloid wrote:

I thought that this was going to be a problem too, and was really disheartened by the twist as my knowledge of the River Kingdoms is very limited. But just a few reads through the wiki pages have given me four really cool ideas. The restriction of having to fit in the River Kingdoms actually gave me better ideas than when I was brainstorming prior to the announcement of the next round's twist.

Samuel Kisko was right. Think more niche.

The people of the River Kingdoms are an extremely diverse set of groups all fighting for power. There are large established ones, but there are also smaller transient ones that rise and fall as is convenient for your stories.

Without going into detail, the Guide to the River Kingdoms goes on, at great length, about how literally every forum of government has been tried.

Anything that you can reasonably frame in this chaotic setting would fit well, even if it isn't directly related to one of the major powers in the area.

If you've got a really good archetype, and not just a sterotype that's hard-coded to a corner of the world, you can probably fit it in to the River Kingdoms.

Scarab Sages Contributor

Think of a few fantasy characters you like, and try to come up with one or two that resemble a character class, but with a variation. Or think of something you think players would like to play conceptually that an archetype would make easier.

The archetype I'll submit (you know, Lord willing and the creek don't rise) is one I thought of after reading some fluff about the River Kingdoms. You could find this archetype in kots of places, but the RK description gives it a real home. Sometimes you start with a pc or npc concept and work backwards into a class.

We're in no more danger of running out of archetype ideas than we are of running out of prestige classes.


Steven T. Helt wrote:


We're in no more danger of running out of archetype ideas than we are of running out of prestige classes.

That's a good way of putting it.

Liberty's Edge

I would rather it was prestige classes, but since complaining myself that there were too many archetypes I have come up with three or four ideas. Two of them were racial archetypes though.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I look at it this way. Archetypes are variant classes, and they're great for taking the various classes to places they might not normally go. I always go back to the first variants I remember from D&D 3.5, and the Urban Ranger usually springs immediately to mind. Rangers aren't designed to be all that useful within a sprawling cityscape, but with a few tweaks, suddenly they're great in a campaign with an urban focus.

Samuel Kisko wrote:
In that regard the River Kingdoms is as about Chaotic Neutral as you can get. Half of it in anarchy. The other half is a constantly shifting power base. Personal freedom is in the culture. Heredity, social class, and feudalism is a minority. Lots of interesting border realms to work with. Lots of smaller sects, cults, guilds getting a piece of the pie. Also it is a good place for exiles, wanderers, and those wanting to not be found to go. Really there is quite a bit to work with.

I think the same applies here. Not every class is equally designed for this sort of environment. So, look at the base classes and mull over what abilities they have that would be useful and/or useless in this environment. Then think about what you might replace the useless (or at least less useful) abilities with to make them more viable within the setting. Keep it all thematically tied, polish it up, and ta-da! You have an archetype.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Homebrew and House Rules / Archetypes, aren't they exhausted already? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Homebrew and House Rules