Skill monkey


Advice


I am trying to find the best mix of feats and class to make a skill monkey NPC or PC. I am thinking a rogue or ninja and then use feats to up some of the more important Skills.

The idea is that of a character that has basic or simple knowledge in as many skills as possible. Thanks


Elven Bard with Breadth of Experience?


Add a level of expert to have nearly every skill a class skill.


I had not thought about the Expert as a class. I have looked at bard my problem is 6 skill points vs 8 skill points.


Thorin2011 wrote:
I had not thought about the Expert as a class. I have looked at bard my problem is 6 skill points vs 8 skill points.

Except Bards also add half their level to all knowledge checks, can make them untrainted, and through Versatile Performance, can effectively get three skills for the price of one (and do so several times over the course of their leveling). Nobody is a better skill user than a Bard.

That said, let me just mention that a totally skill focused build is not something I think is a good idea. They tend not to contribute well in combats and if your game is extremely focused on skill use and away from combat, you're still better of as a utility spellcaster, or just playing a different RPG more suited to that style.


I have a Lore Warden fighter (every INT skill as a class skill, 2 extra skill ranks per level for an INT skill) who then multiclassed Rogue (and Monk) which left him with every single skill in the game except Fly and Heal as class skills.

If you really wanted every skill in the game you could take a Trait to get Heal as a class skill from the start and then take the Fast Getaway rogue talent to get Fly as a class skill but that seems somewhat wasteful. Personally I would just leave yourself missing Fly as a class skill (by some interpretations however if you gain a natural means of flight you get fly as a class skill so you might do this build with a race that can use feats to gain wings and eventually also get Fly...

With a high INT such a character has a LOT of skill ranks to play with - at level 7 my character has some 62 or so skill ranks in many skills - and I took the Dilatante feat which gives him a +2 in any knowledge skill he has 1-5 skill ranks in - in his case that was every single knowledge skill for a pretty significant boost.

One other thing to keep in mind with a skill monkey build is that when, as you likely will, you get an INT boosting item it will be associated with a specific skill - so leave a couple of skills you don't plan on using heavily at lower levels without any ranks - since skill ranks you put into a skill don't stack with the skill ranks gained from a +INT item.

Any class that gains domains with the Lore domain would also get a lot of INT skills as class skills immediately - so if you didn't want Lore Warden (or if archetypes from softcover books weren't available to you) you could also do a skill monkey build with a rogue(or ninja) and a Cleric or Inquisitor build (the inquisitor would actually give you a lot of bonuses to a lot of skills).

Another option to look at would be an Alchemist - the mindchemist archetype in particular at 2nd level gets an ability that allows you to use your INT bonus to knowledge skills TWICE which with a high INT can be a very big boost. The mindchemist however gives up the regular mutagen for cognatgen which isn't quite as nice (since it does ability damage it can be annoying) but you can get mutagens back with a alchemical discovery (or feat for extra discovery). Not a horrible option for a dip for a skill monkey build to consider (I looked at it very closely for my lore warden build).

If you went half-elf you could get a free skill focus at first level - if you go Human however and are planning on playing to level 20 then you should look at the Focused Study alternative human racial trait from the Advanced Race Guide. It trades your human bonus feat at first level for THREE Skill Focus feats - one at first level, one at eighth level and one at 16th level. This can be exceptional if you also want to take Eldritch Heritage feats (provided you have a high enough CHA).

A rogue with a few levels of Lore Warden and built to have a high int, reasonably high CHA and take advantage of the Eldritch Heritage feats could be quite a nice skill monkey build and likely still a very effective combatant (boost your UMD skill to the max for a lot of fun with wands...)


Human with 14 Int gives four more skill points if you put favored class into skills. Bard has 19 of 26 skills. Expert splash will finish that off, but so will ranger if you don't care about the fly skill.

Edit: urban ranger


Okay here is one more idea Human rogue bard or fighter.

a human can use fast learner improvisation and Improved Improvisation

so a total of +4 in any none ranked skills all skills untrained

basicly +1 rank & +3 class skill in everything.

If I focus on feats like alertness and acrobatic as a fighter I could still be some help in a fight.

+ acrobatics skill will help prevent AoO on the battle field. I am sure a lot of the other skills will come in handy

Think macgyver in pathfinders. maybe not a PC but a fun npc to have around.


I actually have the Lore Warden/Bard built up for that... Aasimar to use the FVC bonus to get dirge of doom as a LW7/Bard6. Then drop in Kirin Style/Strike, bard song, and LW ability,

Lookin at a +4 hit/+4(+intx2) damage attack 1/rnd for a swift. All knowledge skills at +12 with a single rank.

I happend to have built him with a scorpion whip for combat, and taken the feats specifically to have his skills work into damage boosts so that he's not useless in combat.

Str 10 Dex 18(2race,1 lvl) Con 10 Int 16(1 lvl) Wis 9 Cha 18(2race,1 lvl)
+3 Agile Dueling(PSFG, not UE) Scorpion Whip

Shadow Lodge

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I made a Bard Skill Monkey and A Ninja Skill Monkey to compare the two. Here is what I came up with.

Bard Skill Monkey: Here is a classic bard skill monkey who dips urban ranger to gain class skill in every skill in the game save fly. In combat he inspires courage, enchants his enemies, and as a last resort shoots with his bow. Gets 10 skill points per level, and gets all the Bard skill goodies.

Ninja Skill Monkey: The Ninja Skill Monkey is very close to The Classic Ninja, if not for a few attribute rearranging. He gets 12 skill points a level, and is still fairly lethal in combat. Unlike the Bard Skill Monkey, he does have a few skills that are not class skills: Fly, Handle Animal, Heal, Ride, Spellcraft, and Survival. You can dip ranger for most of these, or you can grab a trait or two which adds them. However, he gets more skills than the Bard Skill Monkey.

Bard gets 10 skill points a level, while the Ninja gets 12. That adds up to 200 vs 240, or two more skills that can be maxed.

The Bard has every skill in the game as a class skill, save for fly. The Ninja has most skills as class skills, but not those listed above, nor a great number of craft, profession, perform, and knowledge skills.

The Ninja seems more combat viable, and really doesn't give that much up to become a skill monkey. The Bard struggles between bardic performance, enchantment, and, as a last resort, a longbow.

The Bard is also more MAD, given that he needs to favor Charisma, Dexterity, and Int, and can't dump Con. The Ninja needs to favor Dexterity and Int, and shouldn't dump Con or Str.. Personally, I believe that Ninjas can get along fine with low Cha, and I have built him that way

I personally would choose the Ninja. However, I have more experience building Ninjas/Rogues, so if people see any glaring mistakes in the Bard, let me know.

Sovereign Court

My favorite is a Mindchemist Human with Fast Learner, Improvisation and Improved Improvisation.

Mindchemist gives you double your Int on all Knowledge checks so a lvl 3 human with an Int 18 and the above feats has a +12 on all Knowledge checks without putting a rank in them and still has 10 Skill points to spend a level. Then when you use your contagion you get +4 to all your knowledge checks.

To top it off your damage output is based off your your bombs and if you keep upping your Int you keep increasing your damage output.


Here's something to consider: the skill monkey doesn't need every skill, but he should have a bunch of them, and be able to cover whatever the other party members can't.


Ciaran Barnes wrote:
Here's something to consider: the skill monkey doesn't need every skill, but he should have a bunch of them, and be able to cover whatever the other party members can't.

Do you know who is really good at covering things the party can't do? A spellcaster. There isn't a skill on the list that can't be obviated just by having the right spell (even UMD is less useful since having the spell on the list lets you use the wand without a roll at all).

As much as it sucks for us fans of non-magical characters, that's just the way it is.


Human Bard with focused study used in conjunction with versatile performance.

Basically each skill focus with effect 3 skills or rather 2 non preform skills. Also versatile performance allows you to use cha for the ability bonus which would help with MAD. I also recommend savant to give another +2 bonus to two skills.

Sczarni

A synthesist summoner half elf with breadth of experience, and as many skill evolutions as you can stand!

Skilled gives a +8 to any skill, later when you get aspect, you can put two for the cost of one on yourself as well.


lantzkev wrote:

A synthesist summoner half elf with breadth of experience, and as many skill evolutions as you can stand!

Skilled gives a +8 to any skill, later when you get aspect, you can put two for the cost of one on yourself as well.

Dear god!


Synthesist Summoner and Bard are the best skill monkeys. After that, other spell casters are the best, in particular wizard. Rogue and especially ninja really aren't very good at the whole skills thing, only mediocre.

Sczarni

Take Human, so you get three free skill focus feats, Synthesist biped and then take about 8 skilled evolutions, you could end up at lvl 10, with like 5 skills sitting at +27 without attribute modifiers!

Shadow Lodge

Just for kicks, a total theory crafting Synthesist Skill-Monkey.

I realize that what I've made is totally impractical, but it looks as if Synthesists have to give up a bunch to really become skill monkeys. 8 skilled evolutions is 8 bites, or +10 AC and DR 5, or large and 2 slam attacks, or any number of other things.

The Ninja Skill-Monkey gives up almost nothing, except for a slight re-arranging of stats.

Grand Lodge

What does this "Skill Monkey" plan to do in combat?


I have to agree with Please Don't Kill Me. The Mindchemist is a great way to go for Knowledges. An Elven Mindchemist with Breadth of Experience never needs to put a point into any of his knowledge skills to be competitive with any other class. This leaves 8-9 other skills you can max. A +6 headband gives you three more, and possibly 2-3 more from level bonuses.

One thing I was wondering if one could by a skill monkey.

rambling:

Implanted Scarlet and Blue Spheres stick with you for more than 24 hours and have skill ranks attached. The Intelligence bonuses would not stack, but would the additional skill ranks? If so you can max out your skill ranks with implanted Ioun Stones, for 8000 gp and some time and a painful surgery. If this could work, you can buy whatever skills you want.

Shadow Lodge

Synthesist SKill Monkey? Diddly squat. That's the point. I'm having a tough time thinking of a way for a synthesist to balance being a skill monkey and being combat effective. It's certainly possible for a synthesist to have one or two skilled evolutions without giving up too much, but 8 puts you too far behind.

As a quick and dirty definition of skill monkey: A character who has at least his level number of skill ranks in 8 or more skills and a few other goodies. Synthesist gets about 8 skills to levels far above normal limits for level, but drops in combat effectiveness. Ninja can max out 12 skills at pretty normal per level and be combat effective. Bard can max out 10 and be pretty combat effective. Overall, I'd pick the Ninja, for most skill points and giving up the least.


versatile performance combined with the human skill focus alternate makes for the best skill monkey. Any bard archetype that keeps versatile performance will rock socks in this department.

Sczarni

depends on how you look at it, and at what levels, if you're at greater aspect, it's 1 evolution for two +8 skills.


Personally I think a straight up bard is the best skill monkey. Human with 12 int putting favored bonous into skills - 9 skill points a level PLUS verstile peformance PLUS half level into knowledge. Anything that's not a class skill can be covered with versitile preformance (which also turns it into charisma based). The only thing your really giving up is the favored class bonous that could be used for something else. 12 int should be easy enough with any point buy.

It's equivilent to 260 skill points, not counting the 'preform' skills themselves (an additional 80) or the half level into knowledge. The half level for knowledge at level 20 is another 100 points and increase THAT if your DM uses custom knowledges.

Nothing really beats a bard in sheer number of skill points.

Sczarni

but alot of things beat them at any non-knowledge skill =D

Grand Lodge

Well, anyone with access to the Bestow Insight can be a good Skill monkey.

Note: Bard and Inquisitor both have access to this spell.


lantzkev wrote:

but alot of things beat them at any non-knowledge skill =D

It's possible to beat them sure if you have a high natural score. A high wisdom cleric will beat them in preception, but not overly much. A sorcerer will probably beat them at bluffing if the sorcerer spends a point every level on bluff, but again it won't be by a ton. This is true for a skill monkey ranger/rogue/ninja as well though. Only by spending feats can you truly crush a bard at a certain skill (skill focus, and intimidating prowess to get an outrageously high intimidate on a strength character). A bard gets high skills with barely an effort.

If you want to prove that a skill monkey can't get a 20 on every skill in the game, well that's also true. For a level 20 bard with 12 int spending 80 skill points can max diplomancy, sense motive, acrobatics, fly, bluff, disguise, handle animal, and intimidate (all as class skills with charisma as the modifier). A single point in each knowledge will have them roll at a plus 15. You still have 90 points to play with as you desire, have fun.

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