Spear Switch Hitter: can flavor be viable?


Advice


I'm building a ranger for a campaign that I'm playing (RotRL). I'm starting with Treantmonk's "Switch Hitter" build. He'll be a Shoanti (warlike tribal human), and a spear just seems to fit his flavor well.

I've read a few things about (mainly the faults of) spears in the past. Sure you can set against charge, but have you ever seen that used? I'm aware that Greatsword or Greataxe is typically the clear choice mechanically. I don't dislike the flavor of a greatsword, but I have a hard time picturing a nomadic, barbaric, tribal warrior swinging around a steel blade the size of an ironing board. I'm all about the role over the roll typically, so I'm trying to build the hero I see in my mind, but I don't want to hamstring the group with poor combat ability.

Can a spear be good or am I tied to greatsword no matter how hard I struggle?

Grand Lodge

I worked on something similar here.


Thought about using an Earthbreaker? Bigass hammer, that's just as good as a Greatsword (same damage, x3 crit is equal to 19-20/x2), and it's apparently a Shoanti weapon since the Shoanti Tattoo Trait gives proficiency in it along with the Klar and Bolas.

Fixes your flavor issue with the Greatsword, but doesn't diminish effectiveness.

Silver Crusade

I can vouch for the awesome flavor and effectiveness of the Earthbreaker for Shoanti characters. :)

There's also a feat called Thunder and Fang that's all about combining the two signature Shoanti weapons, the earthbreaker and klar, effectively into a double weapon.

There's just something satisfying about weilding that bigass hammer. Especially if you reflavor the handle to be quite a bit longer than what's typically shown, like in this example.


Longspear is a useful weapon but it's almost certainly relegated to backup fighter weapon status (i.e. clerics and such). Reach + Two-Handed weapon damage bonuses make it a solid but unspectacular option for area defense. A cleric armed with a long spear supported by other melee types can be really nasty as the longspear is a really effective at countering charges. At low levels this is really effective at protecting the soft and squishy classes from charges.

Unfortunately, the regular spear simply isn't that useful as a weapon (other than being cheap and flexible) due to having a really poor crit progression and being a two-handed weapon.

Short Spear + Light Shield TWF Spear and Board mainly suffers from the short spear being strictly inferior to martial weapons.

Trident + Shield is probably the best bet for the TWF Spear and Board build but other than offering a slightly improved base damage dice it's really not stellar as an option.

If you want THF + reach + trip options the guisarme or halberd are pretty decent. They'll lag behind the Greatsword/Falchion builds in terms of raw damage output but you can do a lot of area denial. Make sure you have armor spikes to cover close in melee fighters and take advantage of you ability to punish at range.


Building a switch hitter you can also use Vital Strike. In this case "Impact" weapon property would help.

I'll elaborate on what I'm building. He's a switchhitter/potion user with a repeating crossbow and a lot of Int.
Alchemist 4 levels (level 2 alchemical allocation)
Barbarian 2 levels (Furious Finish Vital Strike)
Rest in Fighter/Barbarian/Alchemist/Cavalier/Ranger..whatever you like

Accelerated Drinker trait (guy carries iron vials in his hand so as a move you can chug Gravity Bow/targetted admixture/whatever you need).
Kirin Style + Kirin Strike feats for adding x2 Int as a swift.
Conductive Weapon on the crossbow to add bombs (+int) to shot.

You can make it more impressive by one level Wizard Spellslinger to get a good nice firearm and the Prescience school.

Grand Lodge

Well, you could go for Charging Hurler, Two-Handed Thrower, Quick Draw, Improved Charging Hurler, Point-Blank Shot, Deadly Aim, Rapid Shot, Precise Shot, Opening Volley, and Distance Thrower feats.

Nab the Strong Arm, Supple Wrist trait.

Later, nab the Rhino Hide armor, and a Belt of Mighty Hurling.

The Called enchantment is a great thing too.

Sczarni

@zwolga: congrats on your character choice for RotRL. Rangers rock this campaign. I'm currently playing one myself. He is Shoanti as well (Lyrune quah).

A long spear would make a great secondary weapon. I'd go with the Earthbreaker to start. I took Power Attack & Quickdraw at level 1, if i was to do it over id probably go with Furious Focus instead of quickdraw. FF has its highest value from levels 1-6 but is at its best from 4-5 when its basically a +2 to hit. Another feat I'd take (but didn't) if I could do it over would be Big Game Hunter. I took opening volley instead, and while its great once per combat I think BGH would pay dividends very, very frequently...

Use a sling until you can afford a comp. longbow. Treantmonk recommends Rapid Shot as your level 2 feat. I can't really argue that, but I find that once I took Manyshot at 6th I stopped using Rapidshot (I go Manyshot + Deadly Aim on every full attack, and very rarely can I afford the extra -2 to attack for Rapid shot). If I did it again I may choose Point Blank Shot at 2nd. It would hurt at first but would pay off later I think...


Spellslinger and Prescience school is an illegal combo.

On-Topic: Maul(Earth Breaker) is nice. That said a 3 Level dip in Phalanx Soldier Fighter is excellent for a Spear/Polearm Shield user. In fact I am planning a build with 3 other players in a Megagroup to maximize on the effectiveness of the class alongside support from 2 Cavaliers. We might even be able to get the Rangers in on it.

Remember any build can be effective. It might not be optimal but it can be effective.


Azaelas Fayth wrote:

Spellslinger and Prescience school is an illegal combo.

Thank you for the clarification! I havent played him yet, just building him. It's..complicated, trying to make Crossbows AND vital strike an efficient choice. What exactly doesnt combine of the school and archetype?

EDIT:
School of the Gun replaces Arcane School. Thanks!


Spellslinger gets no benefits from using a Crassbow. And will rarely benefit from Vital Strike.

Crossbow+VS chain on a Crossbow Ranger is excellent. [ooc]Looks at Harsk The Iconic Ranger and shudders.[/url]

Spears & Shortspears are excellent in a specific build. I have a build focusing on using Javelins and such with a Belt of Mighty Hurling for my ranged assaults. Maul(Earth Breaker) is to be used for his Melee Weapon.

Shadow Lodge

Might as well take some Pilum along, to mess up people's spears.

Also, there's a feat where if your range attack hits, your next melee gets a bonus. Might look at that.


You mean Shields right?


Azaelas Fayth wrote:

Spellslinger gets no benefits from using a Crassbow. And will rarely benefit from Vital Strike.

That's why I mentioned you'd do it to get a firearm :) and to get a cheap Ghost Touch firearm. The Crossbow thing is a choice for flavour.

I remember seeing something, perhaps a barbarian arch that allowed to throw 2 handed weapons at BAB...cant find it now.


Halbred with either the Thrown Property, Belt of Hurling, or Throw Anything feat in combination with Quick Draw and a crap ton of Halbreds.

At least that is a build I have attempted...


Here we go!
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/two-handed-thrower-combat
Two handed thrower.


Errant Mercenary wrote:

Here we go!

Two-Handed Thrower, Combat.

Fixed it. And seems nice.

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