Archetype for the Bartender Character Class (AKA R2 concerns)


RPG Superstar™ General Discussion


I have read (and re-read) Sean's advice for the archetype round and yet I still have concerns over the design process.

I know that it not a purely a mathematical process (Sean's first rule) so I am concerned about crating unbalanced changes. Also, what can you take away from a character class without removing what is essential to that class? For example if you remove a bartender’s ability to Mix Drinks is he still a bartender?

If I add the ability to Make Sandwiches is it stepping too much on the chef’s character class ability? If give Makes Sandwiches at the same level that the chef gains Make Sandwiches without any alterations to the ability is it a violation to Sean’s 7th rule?

If I replace an ability that directly impacts the class’s combat ability (i.e. to hit, damage, and/or AC) with something that does not, but is still useful in combat did I overly cripple the class? For example: replacing the bartender’s Baseball Bat Specialization with Disapproving Glare.

And finally how do judge wither or not you have created a balanced and fun archetype without actually playtesting it?

Marathon Voter Season 6

Oh man, this was not the thread to read on an empty stomach...

If I would take a stab at this, part of being a great designer is being able to recognize the essential pieces of a class. Break down the class into its constituent parts.

Adding Make Sandwiches to the bartender would probably step on the chef's toes, but perhaps more importantly if you're just adding pre-existing abilities, you aren't really showcasing your design chops. You're showing your ability to mix and match.

I think the cripple issue really depends on the specifics. If you replace a good passive bonus with one that's alright and must be used with a standard action, the forum optimizers might cry foul.

And about the final question...practice. And playtesting. You might not need to playtest every ability, but identifying the iffy abilities and testing those at multiple levels can help identify issues. The downside is that it'll take a lot of time.


Well Dang! The R2 rules came out and my Archetype idea is completely shot! I was going to make a shape changing Ninja.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2011 Top 16 , Dedicated Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7 aka primemover003

Right if you however exchange the Bartenders Great Listener (Ex) ability and substitute Flaming Pyramind of Shots (Su) or Bottle Juggling (Teamwork Feat) that's Superstar!

--Wild Pazuzu on the Vrocks


Not bad ideas

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