Improper Ability Score Distribution


Pathfinder Society


Hello,

I'm very new to PFS and roleplaying games in general. I played at PFS twice and went through four scenarios, having a great time. It's the first time I've played a pen and paper RPG.

However, I recently realized that my bard's ability scores add up to 23 point buy, not 20 point buy, because I handled the +2 human bonus incorrectly. I'm now second level and it doesn't look like I can just change them to something legal. What should I do?

All the best,
Jason T.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

If your scores are indeed not legal they need to be updated to values that are legal.

Please realize that the racial modifiers are applied after purchasing ability scores and should not be figured into the point cost.

If you were to post your ability score I am sure that we could check this for you.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/5

Adjust a stat (or two) down until you get to a 20 point build. I'm not sure what you mean by 'it doesn't look like I can just change them to something legal'; fixing a character build error isn't just legal, it's required.

It's not a major problem; you could even have a go at fixing it, tell your next GM what's happened, and ask him to give your PC a quick look over for any issues.


Eric Brittain wrote:
If you were to post your ability score I am sure that we could check this for you.

Okay, I'll whip something up after dinner and see what you guys think.

Paz wrote:
... fixing a character build error isn't just legal, it's required.

Right, I get that. I wasn't planning on sweeping it under the rug, haha. I just meant that can't you not change your character after first level?

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/5

jtcoolkid007 wrote:
I just meant that can't you not change your character after first level?

That's right, but it refers to feat choices, skill ranks, etc. where it's just a case of choosing other options for your PC. If there's an error (e.g. ability score overspend, picking a feat accidentally when not meeting the requirements, etc.) then it needs to be resolved as soon as it's discovered.

Grand Lodge 4/5

jtcoolkid007 wrote:
Eric Brittain wrote:
If you were to post your ability score I am sure that we could check this for you.

Okay, I'll whip something up after dinner and see what you guys think.

Paz wrote:
... fixing a character build error isn't just legal, it's required.
Right, I get that. I wasn't planning on sweeping it under the rug, haha. I just meant that can't you not change your character after first level?

You can, and must correct any illegal aspects of a character.

5/5

Use this thread if you're having trouble identifying if your ability scores are calculated correctly.


Okay, how about:

14 STR
15 DEX
14 CON
10 INT
08 WIS
14 CHA

I'll put the +2 bonus into either WIS or CHA. I think this gives me pretty well-rounded stats for a sword and board paladin (the forum won't let me edit my OP wherein I incorrectly said this was for a Bard).

I'm kinda bummed the DEX requirement for TWF (and therefore Shield Slam) is so high; would you recommend making up that DEX some other way, or should I just roll with it? Is Shield Slam even that important?

Also, I think I did skill points wrong. I start with two at first level, right? I put one in Diplomacy, which is a class skill; combined with my +1 rank from being human, this should mean I have a Diplomacy skill of five, yes?

I put the other point into UMD, which is a class skill thanks to my trait, so I'll have total of four there, yes?

The Exchange 5/5 RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

jtcoolkid007,

Is that the Attribute array before or after you add a floating +2 bonus to an attribute for your character being human?

At first level -- and every other level -- a paladin receives 2 skill ranks, plus his Intelligence bonus (in your case, none), plus 1 for being human. If Paladin is your PC's favored class -- and I'm guessing it is, then you can get either an additional skill rank or hit point every level*. So, you can start with either 12 hit points and 4 skill ranks, or else 13 hit points and 3 skill ranks.

In Pathfinder, you can't have more ranks in a skill than you have levels, so you'll have to put those 3 or 4 skill ranks each in a different skill. If that skill is a class skill for paladins (Craft, Diplomacy, Handle Animal, Heal, Knowledge (nobility), Knowledge (religion), Profession, Ride, Sense Motive, and Spellcraft) then you get a "+3" bonus to the skill.

So, a rank in Diplomacy would give you 1 (rank) + 3 (class skill) + 2 (Charisma bonus) = +6. Meanwhile, a rank in Disable Device would get you 1 (rank) + 2 (Dexterity Bonus) = +3.

----
* I know what you're going to say. Don't confuse him.

5/5

jtcoolkid007 wrote:
Right, I get that. I wasn't planning on sweeping it under the rug, haha. I just meant that can't you not change your character after first level?

By that logic, you'd be able to get away with a 50 point buy forever as long as nobody caught it at first level.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/5

jtcoolkid007 wrote:

Okay, how about:

14 STR
15 DEX
14 CON
10 INT
08 WIS
14 CHA

I'll put the +2 bonus into either WIS or CHA. I think this gives me pretty well-rounded stats for a sword and board paladin (the forum won't let me edit my OP wherein I incorrectly said this was for a Bard).

I'm kinda bummed the DEX requirement for TWF (and therefore Shield Slam) is so high; would you recommend making up that DEX some other way, or should I just roll with it?

That is a 20 point build above. But it's not really intended that you do a full re-stat (which is what your post sounds like), just that you drop a point here or there to bring it back down to a 20-point build that's very similar to what you had originally.

Quote:
Is Shield Slam even that important?

Depends what you want to do with your shield really. CharOp is not my forté.

Quote:
Also, I think I did skill points wrong. I start with two at first level, right?

A paladin starts with 2+Int bonus. So, 2 in your case, plus 1 from being human, for 3. You may also have got an extra one (for 4 in total) from your favoured class bonus, but you may well have taken the extra hit point instead.

Quote:
I put one in Diplomacy, which is a class skill; combined with my +1 rank from being human, this should mean I have a Diplomacy skill of five, yes?

It sounds like you're putting two ranks in the same skill at first level, which isn't allowed; max. ranks is always your character level. You need to put your 3 (or 4) ranks all in different skills.

If you put a rank in Diplomacy, your modifier at 1st level would be:
2 (Cha bonus) + 1 (rank) + 3 (class skill bonus) = +6

Quote:
I put the other point into UMD, which is a class skill thanks to my trait, so I'll have total of four there, yes?

What trait did you take? Normally those traits also give you a +1 bonus to the skill, meaning your modifier would be:

2 (Cha bonus) + 1 (rank) + 3 (class skill bonus) + 1 (trait bonus) = +7

All clear?


In the words of the internet: Seems legit.

14 leads to 5 points
15 leads to 7 points
8 leads to -2 points.

All in all, a 20 point build before racial abilities.

As a paladin, given the choice of upping wis or cha, I think I would go with CHA because Wis only really affects perception and will saves, and putting the +2 into CHA will boost your Fort and Reflex saves as well, not to mention it's your casting stat, and it effects Smite Evil.

The DEX requirement for TWF is only 15 (which you have). The other requirements aren't that steep either (it's Improved Weapon Fighting that DEX becomes a bother.) Even if you don't go all the way through the Two-Weapon Fighting Tree, an extra attack at close to your highest BAB is still pretty good.

Humans get an extra skill point to use. Your diplomacy would be +4 with one rank (in addition to your CHA and other modifiers). It is a similar case for UMD, however, if the trait gives a +1 trait bonus to UMD and makes it a class skill, it probably is a +5 with 1 skill rank.


Paz wrote:
That is a 20 point build above. But it's not really intended that you do a full re-stat (which is what your post sounds like), just that you drop a point here or there to bring it back down to a 20-point build that's very similar to what you had originally.

Right, I took the points out of WIS to give my other scores some breathing room, then using the +2 bonus to even it back out.

Quote:
Depends what you want to do with your shield really. CharOp is not my forté.

I was looking to give my enemies the ole smack 'n' slash.

Quote:
All clear [about skill points]?

Yep, thanks to you and everyone else I'm getting it now. Can't have more ranks in a skill than my level, that's what was messing me up.

Dark Archive

you could squeeze out an extra point by instead using the +2 to raise a 12 to a 14, or better yet, a 13 to a 15. Both of those cost more than the 2 points you get from lowering a 10 to an 8. 12 to 14 costs 3 points, and 13-15 costs 4 points.

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