Paizo Top Nav Branding
  • Hello, Guest! |
  • Sign In |
  • My Account |
  • Shopping Cart |
  • Help/FAQ
About Paizo Messageboards News Paizo Blog Help/FAQ
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game
Pathfinder Society

Pathfinder Beginner Box

Pathfinder Adventure Card Game

Pathfinder Comics

Pathfinder Legends

PaizoCon 2014!

Max Heals Build for a 12 year old 1st time to D&D


Advice


Ok trying to create a toon for my 12 year old son. He says he wants to do lots of healing and use a sword(of some type) and a shield. He wont sit still long enough to get much more out of him. He does like the pets also. I want his first experience with this to be good so, I'm trying to get this right.

If were looking for max heals, I'm assuming go cleric or druid of some type? What about the archetypes/sub classes? Would bard, pally, other do enough healing?

My only concern is that he would get bored with "just a healer" so I want to slip some alternatives in there that he may think are cool. We played the MMO, Dungeon and Dragon Online for 6 years, he played his main toons as damage dealers and Pally was his main. He loved Lay on Hands! That aside its completely different than rolling dice! So any advice you can give would be great. I never fancied healing much so I have limited knowledge about them in the Pathfinder setting. Thanks !

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I think you're right that he'd probably get bored only healing. I'd say go with a class that's good at swinging a sword, and also has some healing. That should be enough to make him happy. My first choice would be paladin, just because a spellcaster like cleric or druid might be too much for him to take in all at once. Just be sure to explain the whole "knight in shining armor" paladin code thing to him, so he plays it right as a good guy.

Shadow Lodge

Paladin's good, and as long as he gets the code of conduct it's hard to mess up the mechanics. If he thinks he wants to be more of a healer, try the Hospitalier archetype - they get a few less smites per day, but more healing. The standard paladin is also a fair healer, though - the mercies are handy. The paladin's mount could fill his pet desires.

A cleric would also work - they're decent combatants in addition to being healers. If he worships Erastil or Gozreh (or is a philosophy cleric) he can pick the Animal domain (I'd recommend Fur subdomain) and get himself a pet at level 4. In this case he should take Boon Companion at level 5. If he doesn't need a second domain and you think he'd prefer more martial skill to casting, he could try Crusader Cleric and trade a domain and a spell slot per level for some bonus combat feats. Clerics are decent fighters without that, though, and despite being spellcasters I don't think they're too difficult - just give him a bit of help with his prepared spells.

Bards (and inquisitors) do a bit of healing but not much, and I think they might be a bit complicated for a 12-year-old newbie. I'd also avoid the druid, since their preferred combat style is more "I turn into a tiger and maul it" than "sword and shield." Clerics and paladins can still get the "pet" if he wants it.


Thanks for the feedback. I think he wants to heal for personal reasons if you know what I mean. He never liked dying in DDO :) But I like the Cleric and Pally suggestions. Is there such a thing as a cleric that specializes in the use of martial blades? I know that with old rules they weren't allowed blades but there are so many new things out its hard to decipher.


Offhand:

Cleric of Iomedea (Longsword)
Cleric of Gorum (Greatsword)
Oracle of Battle (Skill at arms revelation at 1st level)

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

is he mostly worried about himself dieing or anyone dieing?

if he just wants to make sure that he doesn't die himself Paladin is a great way to go- he can rush into combat like any other melee guy, but he can heal himself as a swift action with Lay Hands (as long as he uses a light shield) which makes him really tough to kill.

if he wants to stop everyone from dieing a cleric or oracle can both be made to be effective besides healing (but still easier to heal everyone with than a pally or other off-healer). and both can have a pet- clerics with the animal domain and oracles with the nature mystery. oracles have more special ability stuff to keep track of but as spontaneous casters they'd be easier for him to handle spellcasting-wise, so that's the big ease-of-use balancing conundrum.

your original question was how to make a character with "max heals"... its kind of a toss up between a cleric with Healing for one of his domains (and feats to improve channel energy) and a Life oracle. since the cleric could take Animal as his other domain (and spend a feat on boon companion) it sounds like that might be a better fit for him.


Oracle or Paladin. Or Battle-Oracle with 2 level-dip in Paladin (in case its not too complicated).

Maybe a nature-oracle? With companion.

Maybe bones-oracle with animate undead if thats his kind of thing.

If he really wants to be effective in melee, take battle-oracle with 2 levels of paladin.

Sword'n'board is not the best choice most of the time, unless you dont want to melee or you have the feats to get shield-bash-stuff.


Elf this let you use Long Sword, Short Sword, bows, and Elven Thin Blade.

With Healing Domain and one other of your choosing

Weapon Finesse*
Extra Channel
Selective Channeling

And pick a mix of 5 from this list
Craft Wondrous Item*
Craft Wand
Craft Rod
Scribe Scroll
Empower Spell
Extend Spell
Quicken Spell
Reach Spell
Quick Channel
Channeled Revival

And pick 2 form this list
Wepon focus Diety wepon
Fleet
Exta Trait
Vital strike Chain
Point Blank Shot
Rapid Shot
Toughness
Combat Casting

STR 10 Dex 15 CON 10 INT 10 WIS 15 CHA 14

If it was me I would say take Craft Wouderous item for Stat items, Paerls of power, and Phylactery of positive channeling ASAP

Lantern Lodge

I'd say Hospitalier Paladin with the Improved Mercy feat (adds +1d6 to healing if a Mercy effect doesn't need to be applied). Gives him the armor and BAB to be able to deal and take damage.


If he take the Animal Domain. Does he need points into handle animal and knowledge nature? what is going to help him control that animal? or are they self sufficient once you take the animal domain? thanks for the info guys!


Animal companions technically need Handle Animal to control, but that's only to perform tricks that they don't already know, or to teach them new tricks.

Qadira

You still need handle animal but you get a bonus to it, the goal is DC 25 to push it to do tricks it doesn't know. But I believe you don't kneed it to do tricks it has already been taught.

You could be nice and assume it knows all the trick it can when he gets it.

Cleric was my first class too at about that age.


Some one mention Boon Companion? I can't find that feast on Hero Lab, or is it a feat? Also, Tricks are attacks? completely clueless about animals. thanks

Lantern Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Make him a cleric of Iomedae, she has sword as a favored weapon and you've got a fair number of melee options as well. And folks making these suggestions, remember that we're building for a 12 year old... leave the real complicated stuff, until he's mastered the basics.

Silver Crusade

LazarX wrote:
Make him a cleric of Iomedae, she has sword as a favored weapon and you've got a fair number of melee options as well. And folks making these suggestions, remember that we're building for a 12 year old... leave the real complicated stuff, until he's mastered the basics.

Age isn't the limiting factor. Kids are smarter than adults often give them credit for. He'll learn the rules. The big limiting factor here is just that he's a beginner.

Spellcasters are complicated, which is why I recommended paladin instead of cleric. That way, he can be good with a sword, heal himself constantly with lay on hands, and not have to worry about figuring out the spell system and all the spells until after he's played a bit and knows the game better.


Ok, one last question, I'm trying not to bother you guys anymore. If he uses Pally. Is there an Archetype that offers additional Lay on Hands or a "buffed" lay on hands?

You guys have been great, 1st time posting on the forums and I'm impressed with the helpful nature. rare to see that in most games I've played.


make a battle cleric, taking the animal domain(fur subdomain) with boon companion would give a pretty nice pet. worshipping a god that gives a greataxe or greatsword would let him hit things hard, which is also fun. Spells aree not that complicated since you can primarily melee and use channel to heal (yourself and your pet), it would be a very versatile character.


About animal companions and tricks, there's an easy way out! Once you take Boon Companion, you get to add to an ability score of your animal. If you boost its intelligence to 3, it can now take ranks in any skill. Have it learn a language you know, and suddenly you don't need tricks at all, you just tell it what to do!

This way, you don't need to waste any ranks on Handle Animal. There will be one level when you only have two tricks (level 4, before you've taken Boon Companion,) but after that you needn't worry about teaching it tricks (which takes weeks) or making Handle Animal checks.


Trueshots wrote:

Ok, one last question, I'm trying not to bother you guys anymore. If he uses Pally. Is there an Archetype that offers additional Lay on Hands or a "buffed" lay on hands?

You guys have been great, 1st time posting on the forums and I'm impressed with the helpful nature. rare to see that in most games I've played.

The best healer-paladin archetype is the Hospitaler.

There are also some nice Lay on Hands feats, specifically Extra Lay on Hands, Greater Mercy, Ultimate Mercy, and Word of Healing.


Fromper wrote:
LazarX wrote:
Make him a cleric of Iomedae, she has sword as a favored weapon and you've got a fair number of melee options as well. And folks making these suggestions, remember that we're building for a 12 year old... leave the real complicated stuff, until he's mastered the basics.

Age isn't the limiting factor. Kids are smarter than adults often give them credit for. He'll learn the rules. The big limiting factor here is just that he's a beginner.

Spellcasters are complicated, which is why I recommended paladin instead of cleric. That way, he can be good with a sword, heal himself constantly with lay on hands, and not have to worry about figuring out the spell system and all the spells until after he's played a bit and knows the game better.

+1 for the paladin. I've always found that new players do better when they play straightforward classes. Most of my friends (with some exceptions) played classes like Fighter / Barbarian / Rogue first and fallen in love with the game that way.

If personally dying is his issue, paladin will work great between its defensive bonuses to and self-healing. I wouldn't even bother with archetypes; after attaining a bit of mastery, if he decides he wants to specialize a bit more, I'd let him, but you don't want to pile on the complications. Pick one "trick" feat and make the rest simple; for example, Toughness, Weapon Focus, and Lightning Reflexes are passive bonuses that you don't really need to think about and are good for new players because of this. For a trick feat, pick something like Power Attack, Combat Reflexes, or an Improved Combat Maneuver feat. The trick will give him something to actually do when he doesn't want to smite and will start to make him think about what else he could do. If he's into the game, he'll start to branch out of his general build as he discovers the game.


RumpinRufus wrote:

About animal companions and tricks, there's an easy way out! Once you take Boon Companion, you get to add to an ability score of your animal. If you boost its intelligence to 3, it can now take ranks in any skill. Have it learn a language you know, and suddenly you don't need tricks at all, you just tell it what to do!

This way, you don't need to waste any ranks on Handle Animal. There will be one level when you only have two tricks (level 4, before you've taken Boon Companion,) but after that you needn't worry about teaching it tricks (which takes weeks) or making Handle Animal checks.

This is Awesome advice. Great thinking on that one. Definitely going to do that, I assume I can do with cleric or pally whatever I choose for him.

I lied about the previous question being my last :) Can you now explain if the properties of Channel energy(which I know nothing about) are a more powerful heal than the Pally Lay on Hands? Which would be better during combat? I think you can heal both you and your pet with channel? and Lay hands you would take 2 actions but get more uses than channel? I'm really confused on this one.

Cheliax

Channel Energy heals more targets, including enemies, unless you invest in the proper feats. They take a Standard action.

Paladins can heal one target with Lay on Hands, either as a Standard or Swift action, depending on target (ally or himself, respectively).


The true Max Healing build is an Oracle of Life. From your description, though, it really sounds like a Paladin would be more up your son's alley.


Yea, Im going to study up on all the pally stuff tomorrow and see what I can come up with. Thank you guys for all the input!


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Toon?

Does he have high IV's?


The feat extra lay on hands will get him more lay on hands. Also greater mercy gives him an extra d6 of healing for lay on hands if the target is not affected by any conditions of his mercies. If he wants to channel more than just once in a while look into the hospitaler archetype. They do not get as many smite evils as they level up but they are able to channel positive energy as a cleric 3 levels lower without having to use lay on hands. This combination will eventually be able to out heal a cleric especially if he takes extra lay on hands feat multiple times.


Ignoring paladins for the moment, if it is a choice between cleric and oracle, this becomes about spontaneous versus prepared spellcasting. Both use the same spell lists.

Spontaneous spellcasting might be good since it allows you a tight set of spells that he can use over and over as needed. Easy to refer to and remember on the fly, but it makes spell choice far more important.

Clerics can prepare any spell on their spell list as long as they are have a slot for it and the wisdom to cast it. This would allow him to use any spell, but they would need to prepared each day by taking time to ask god for them *knowing look at OP.* This would take the stress off of each spell, but that would put pressure on the spells prepared that day. Channel and spontaneous casting of heal spells (in return for equal or greater prepared spells) would still make it easy for him to fulfill his desired role. I'd think that sheer number of times he can use some form of healing might be best with Cleric. An oracle can also get channel, but only the life mystery, and that would exclude the animal companion idea.

The oracle curse might also turn him off of the class, since it is a special kind of suck that only gets better once he gets to the right level. Cleric also has a bit more flexibility for the whole sword, shield, and pet thing too.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

this might only muddy the waters but if you use the sacred servant variant for the paladin you could select the animal domain to still get a pet (though he wouldn't get it til 7th level, and you'd definitely want to take Boon Companion).


nate lange wrote:
this might only muddy the waters but if you use the sacred servant variant for the paladin you could select the animal domain to still get a pet (though he wouldn't get it til 7th level, and you'd definitely want to take Boon Companion).

Paladins can also take a mount as their Divine Bond, which also acts as an animal companion.

Shadow Lodge

Yes, if he wants a pet for his paladin suggest he take the mount at level 4. A paladin's mount has an intelligence of 6, which means it's smart enough that you can just tell it what to do. He'll probably have to take a horse, though a small paladin could ride a boar, dog, or even leopard (small cat) if your GM is accommodating.

Trueshots wrote:
I lied about the previous question being my last :) Can you now explain if the properties of Channel energy(which I know nothing about) are a more powerful heal than the Pally Lay on Hands? Which would be better during combat? I think you can heal both you and your pet with channel? and Lay hands you would take 2 actions but get more uses than channel? I'm really confused on this one.

Lay on Hands heals only one person at a time. Channel heals every living creature within range (including enemies unless you take Selective Channel). Lay on Hands is useful to heal a single target and is a great way for a paladin to heal themselves since they can do so as a swift action without impeding their ability to attack the enemy. Channel Energy is useful when there are a number of party members who need healing - for example, if the paladin and his mount are both injured, or especially if the paladin, his mount, and his friends Fighter Fred and Richard the Rogue are all injured. Just be careful about healing enemies by mistake. Channel only spends 2 Lay on Hands uses, and unless you need the Mercies it just takes too many actions to heal multiple people with Lay on Hands.


Since your son is already familiar with the DDO Paladin, he'll probably be comfortable with a Pathfinder one. Go with a 2-Handed weapon build and he'll have feats to spare for extra Lay on Hands or for Channeling Feats. The archetypes can be fun, but aren't really needed if you just want a useful and fun character.

If he wants to play something a bit different, how about a Hedge Witch? By level 4 you don't have to prepare your Cure Spells before hand, just sacrifice a spell slot to cast it. You also get to play with Hexes, which are just a ton of fun.


here is a build i just made for people new to pfs, to give a taste of melee and spellcasting. it might be a good start for you to expand on.

Male human cleric of Gorum 1
CG Medium humanoid (human)
Init +2; Senses Perception +2
DEFENSE
AC 14, touch 11, flat-footed 13 (+3 armor, +1 dex)
hp 11 (1d8+3) (+1 favored class bonus)
Fort +4, Ref +2, Will +4
OFFENSE
Speed 30 ft.
Melee Greatsword +4 (2d6+4 19-20/x2)
Ranged sling +1 (1d4+3)
Special Attacks channel positive energy 5/day (DC 12, 1d6)
Domain Abilities
5/day—Sieze the Initiative
5/day—Destructive Smite
Cleric Spells Prepared (CL 1st; concentration +3)
1st—bless, magic weapon(domain), shield of faith
0 (at will)—detect magic, light, stabilize
Domains: Destruction(Rage), War(Tactics)
STATISTICS
Str 17, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 7, Wis 14, Cha 14
Base Atk +0; CMB +3; CMD 14
Feats Selective Channeling, Weapon Focus(greatsword)
Skills Diplomacy +6, Knowledge (religion) +2; Armor Check –1
Traits Deft Dodger, Veteran of Battle(Gorum)
Languages Common
SQ aura (faint chaotic), spontaneous casting
Combat Gear potion of cure light wounds(50g); scroll of protection from evil(25g) Other Gear studded leather(25g), greatsword(50g), sling(-) with 10 bullets(1s), backpack(2g), wooden holy symbol(1g), waterskin(1g), 5gp 9s

Paizo / Messageboards / Paizo Publishing / Pathfinder® / Pathfinder RPG / Advice / Max Heals Build for a 12 year old 1st time to D&D All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.

©2002–2014 Paizo Inc.®. Need help? Email customer.service@paizo.com or call 425-250-0800 during our business hours: Monday–Friday, 10 AM–5 PM Pacific Time. View our privacy policy. Paizo Inc., Paizo, the Paizo golem logo, Pathfinder, the Pathfinder logo, Pathfinder Society, GameMastery, and Planet Stories are registered trademarks of Paizo Inc., and Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Pathfinder Adventure Path, Pathfinder Adventure Card Game, Pathfinder Player Companion, Pathfinder Modules, Pathfinder Tales, Pathfinder Battles, Pathfinder Online, PaizoCon, RPG Superstar, The Golem's Got It, Titanic Games, the Titanic logo, and the Planet Stories planet logo are trademarks of Paizo Inc. Dungeons & Dragons, Dragon, Dungeon, and Polyhedron are registered trademarks of Wizards of the Coast, Inc., a subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc., and have been used by Paizo Inc. under license. Most product names are trademarks owned or used under license by the companies that publish those products; use of such names without mention of trademark status should not be construed as a challenge to such status.