Paizo Top Nav Branding
  • Hello, Guest! |
  • Sign In |
  • My Account |
  • Shopping Cart |
  • Help/FAQ
About Paizo Messageboards News Paizo Blog Help/FAQ
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game
Pathfinder Society

Pathfinder Beginner Box

Pathfinder Adventure Card Game

Pathfinder Comics

Pathfinder Legends

RPG Superstar 2015

Proposed Class: Myrmidon


Suggestions/House Rules/Homebrew


Hey guys,

Thanks for taking a minute to check this out. I'm interested in creating a rogue/fighter/monk hybrid. I know... that sounds like a lot, but I've put a good amount of time into building and balancing this class using the
"Class Construction Engine".
If I calculated this right, the class costs 269 CP, where the average 3.5 class costs 250, high (monk) being 287, and low (sorcerer) being 215. I figure that being on the upper end of that spectrum is normal and acceptable since Pathfinder classes tend to be a bit stronger than 3.5 classes.

I would appreciate any feedback you might have. Please be critical of the build! But don't be jerks to me :D

CP Breakdown:

Myrmidon
Base Abilities Selection CP
HD d8 30
Weapon Proficiency Simple, 2 Martial, 1 Exotic 14
Armor Proficiency Progressive, Shields 15
Class Skills 14 15
Skill Points per Level 6+int 45
BAB Progression High 50
Alignment Prohibited: Any Neutral -5
Save Progression Deft 15
Total: 179
Special Ability Equivalent CP
Sneak Attack Excellent Ability 15
Fast Movement Moderate Ability (conditional) 10
Finesse Fighter General Feat 5
Evasion Enhanced One-Time Ability 10
Uncanny Dodge Excellent Ability 15
Wearing Armor Affects All Abilities Greater Restriction -20
Bonus Feat Acquired Feat 20
Favored Weapon Outstanding Ability 20
Finesse Strike Excellent Ability 15
Total: 90
Grand Total: 269

Myrmidon

Role: Myrmidons are masters of physical combat, and excel at dispatching foes quickly. While they do best when fighting with a flanking buddy, they can hold their own in head-to-head combat. Their weapon mastery abilities keep them equipped permanently with an answer to every combat situation, as long as they have one of their favored weapons by their side. Their powerful sense of self-awareness allows them to not only best their opponents in combat, but in social settings as well.

Alignment: Any Neutral

Hit Die: d8.

Class Skills
The myrmidon's class skills are Acrobatics (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (local) (Int), Perception (Wis), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Stealth (Dex), and Use Magic Device (Cha).

Skill Ranks per Level: 6 + Int modifier.

Class Features
The following are class features of the myrmidon.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Myrmidons are proficient with all simple weapons, plus two martial weapons and one exotic weapon.

Myrmidons are not proficient with any armor, but are proficient with light shields and bucklers.

When wearing armor or carrying a medium or heavy load, a myrmidon loses his AC bonus, as well as his fast movement, finesse strike, and favored weapon abilities."

Fast Movement (Ex): A myrmidon's land speed is faster than the norm for her race by +10 feet. This benefit applies only when she is wearing no armor and not carrying a medium or heavy load. Apply this bonus before modifying the myrmidon's speed because of any load carried. This bonus stacks with any other bonuses to the myrmidon's land speed.

AC Bonus (Ex): When unarmored and unencumbered, the myrmidon adds his Charisma bonus (if any) to his AC and his CMB. In addition, a myrmidon gains a +1 bonus to AC and CMB at 4th level. This bonus increases by 1 for every four myrmidon levels thereafter, up to a maximum of +5 at 20th level.

These bonuses to AC apply even against touch attacks or when the myrmidon is flat-footed. He loses these bonuses when he is immobilized or helpless, when he wears any armor, or when he carries a medium or heavy load."

Sneak Attack: If a myrmidon can catch an opponent when he is unable to defend himself effectively from his attack, she can strike a vital spot for extra damage.

The myrmidon's attack deals extra damage anytime his target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the myrmidon flanks his target. This extra damage is 1d6 at 1st level, and increases by 1d6 every two myrmidon levels thereafter. Should the myrmidon score a critical hit with a sneak attack, this extra damage is not multiplied. Ranged attacks can count as sneak attacks only if the target is within 30 feet.

With a weapon that deals nonlethal damage (like a sap, whip, or an unarmed strike), a myrmidon can make a sneak attack that deals nonlethal damage instead of lethal damage. She cannot use a weapon that deals lethal damage to deal nonlethal damage in a sneak attack, not even with the usual –4 penalty.

The myrmidon must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. A myrmidon cannot sneak attack while striking a creature with concealment."

Evasion (Ex): At 2nd level and higher, a myrmidon can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If she makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, she instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if the myrmidon is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless myrmidon does not gain the benefit of evasion.

Finesse Fighter: At 2nd level, a myrmidon receives Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat.

Uncanny Dodge (Ex): Starting at 4th level, a myrmidon can react to danger before her senses would normally allow her to do so. She cannot be caught flat-footed, nor does she lose her Dex bonus to AC if the attacker is invisible. She still loses herDexterity bonus to AC if immobilized. A myrmidon with this ability can still lose her Dexterity bonus to AC if an opponent successfully uses the feint action (see Combat) against her.

If a myrmidon already has uncanny dodge from a different class, she automatically gains improved uncanny dodge (see below) instead."

Favored Weapon (Ex): At 6th level, a myrmidon chooses a single weapon. Each time the myrmidon deals sneak attack damage, he can choose to forgo 1d6 damage in exchange for one added effect. At 6th level, he may increase the damage of his favored weapon by one step. At 10th level, he may ignore hardness 5. At 14th level, he gains another favored weapon, and may ignore DR 5.

For each added effect applied, he must forgo an additional 1d6, up to 3d6 per sneak attack total for all three added affects combined.

At 18th level, he may apply the same added affect up to three times."

Bonus Feats: At 6th level, and at every four levels thereafter, a myrmidon gains a bonus feat in addition to those gained from normal advancement. These bonus feats must be selected from those listed as combat feats. A myrmidon qualifies as a fighter for any feat with "fighter" as a prerequisite when selecting his bonus feat.

Improved Uncanny Dodge (Ex): A myrmidon of 8th level or higher can no longer be flanked.

This defense denies sneak attack damage done by an attacker flanking her, unless the attacker has at least four more myrmidon or rogue levels than the target does.

If a character already has uncanny dodge (see above) from another class, the levels from the classes that grant uncanny dodge stack to determine the minimum myrmidon level required to flank the character.

Finesse Strike (Ex): A myrmidon of 12th level may substitute half of his Dexterity bonus to damage rolls for strength. At 16th level, he may substitute his entire Dexterity bonus to damage rolls instead of strength.

Favored Weapon Mastery (Ex): At 20th level, a myrmidon becomes a true master of his favored weapon. He may apply one added affect regardless of if he is dealing sneak attack damage or not. In addition, for each 1d6 he forgo's while dealing sneak attack damage, each added affect is applied. He may forgo up to 4d6 per sneak attack.

Marathon Voter 2013

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

It's a really 3.5ish class. It doesn't quite feel Pathfinder to me. I was a bit worried about the power level when I was reading the Roles section, but for were mostly unfounded. I don't understand the focus dex and cha, and it tells very custom made.

Silver Crusade

Kybryn, let me ask, is this something similar to the Myrmidons from the movie Troy? Just curious, not trying to be funny. If so, i don't see why they couldn't use light armor and still qualify for class specific bonuses. I loved the armor design and concept for them in Troy and it seems to me that your Myrmidons should be able to wear something similar. I agree completely that they were trained for maximum movement in combat to better control the battlefield.


Cheapy wrote:
It's a really 3.5ish class. It doesn't quite feel Pathfinder to me. I was a bit worried about the power level when I was reading the Roles section, but for were mostly unfounded. I don't understand the focus dex and cha, and it tells very custom made.

Yah, the way I see it the weapon mastery really is what steers it away from pathfinder, but I think that with a little rewording or restructuring it would seem more native.

I don't quite understand what your third sentence means, but if I did understand, let me try to explain to you why I feel it makes perfect sense. The dex/cha focus is based on their powerful sense of self-awareness and mobility. They are quick, responsive, and have total understanding and confidence in their anatomy and physical abilities. This explains the cha/dex thing going on.


Haedrius wrote:
Kybryn, let me ask, is this something similar to the Myrmidons from the movie Troy? Just curious, not trying to be funny. If so, i don't see why they couldn't use light armor and still qualify for class specific bonuses. I loved the armor design and concept for them in Troy and it seems to me that your Myrmidons should be able to wear something similar. I agree completely that they were trained for maximum movement in combat to better control the battlefield.

In a sense yes, but not totally. It's more structured around the Fire Emblem concept (Zihark, Mia, Guy, etc). I've considered adding the clause "any armor considered to be one step lighter than light armor does not restrict any class abilities" or something like that, but it seemed like extra cheese adding onto what I feel is a pretty powerful class.

Silver Crusade

Kybryn wrote:
Haedrius wrote:
Kybryn, let me ask, is this something similar to the Myrmidons from the movie Troy? Just curious, not trying to be funny. If so, i don't see why they couldn't use light armor and still qualify for class specific bonuses. I loved the armor design and concept for them in Troy and it seems to me that your Myrmidons should be able to wear something similar. I agree completely that they were trained for maximum movement in combat to better control the battlefield.
In a sense yes, but not totally. It's more structured around the Fire Emblem concept (Zihark, Mia, Guy, etc). I've considered adding the clause "any armor considered to be one step lighter than light armor does not restrict any class abilities" or something like that, but it seemed like extra cheese adding onto what I feel is a pretty powerful class.

It looks like a powerful class. The reason i asked about the armor is mainly look, but with your shield restrictions, light armor befitting their abilities should be ok from a mechanics point of view. How close are you to the playtest part of the Myrmidon, that would be the telling part of how it fits into the game world.


I guess I don't really get the feel of it. It seems a lot more like a mashup of random abilities than anything else. I could see a couple things being removed, and it then becoming an archetype for Barbarian, Fighter or Rogue.


Haedrius wrote:
It looks like a powerful class. The reason i asked about the armor is mainly look, but with your shield restrictions, light armor befitting their abilities should be ok from a mechanics point of view. How close are you to the playtest part of the Myrmidon, that would be the telling part of how it fits into the game world.

Well, if/when my current sorcerer dies in my player campaign, or someone takes the role of GM in the campaign I personally run, i'll be playtesting it. Playtesting will start some time late Jan mid Feb. Right now I'd like to get some theoretical/at-a-glance balance criticism to mold it, but i'll be sure to post here any updates I have.


Doggan wrote:
I guess I don't really get the feel of it. It seems a lot more like a mashup of random abilities than anything else. I could see a couple things being removed, and it then becoming an archetype for Barbarian, Fighter or Rogue.

Bah, this pushes me to do what I'm worst at: writing. I need to do a write-up of the flavor of the class and how the abilities he has mash up. The basic idea is:

A warrior who is trained with and has mastered a couple of weapons. He packs light, and uses that to his advantage. Armor truthfully would get in the way of his movement ability. In combat, he runs in on the front lines, and uses his dexterity and his self-confidence in his physical abilities to maneuver around the battle field. He is squishier than a fighter, but the trade-off is his capability of craking out more damage than a fighter.

Possible combinations/build ideas:

If he doesn't have a flanking buddy, he takes the improved feint tree, and sneak attacks on his own.

Masters Acrobatics for ultimate mobility

Masters combat maneuvers and goes wild with trips, disarms, sunders, etc.

Silver Crusade

Kybryn wrote:
Doggan wrote:
I guess I don't really get the feel of it. It seems a lot more like a mashup of random abilities than anything else. I could see a couple things being removed, and it then becoming an archetype for Barbarian, Fighter or Rogue.

Bah, this pushes me to do what I'm worst at: writing. I need to do a write-up of the flavor of the class and how the abilities he has mash up. The basic idea is:

A warrior who is trained with and has mastered a couple of weapons. He packs light, and uses that to his advantage. Armor truthfully would get in the way of his movement ability. In combat, he runs in on the front lines, and uses his dexterity and his self-confidence in his physical abilities to maneuver around the battle field. He is squishier than a fighter, but the trade-off is his capability of craking out more damage than a fighter.

Possible combinations/build ideas:

If he doesn't have a flanking buddy, he takes the improved feint tree, and sneak attacks on his own.

Masters Acrobatics for ultimate mobility

Masters combat maneuvers and goes wild with trips, disarms, sunders, etc.

Disclaimer: I am no expert when it comes to class design.

Lol, having said that, when i think of Myrmidons, i think of Troy, which i'll freely admit that they may not be close approximations of the real deal. I honestly don't know. I don't see Myrmidons <Rose colored Troy googles on> doing things like sneak attack, infiltration yes. They struck me as more of an up close and personal, want to let you know it's coming kind of warrior, if that makes sense. Stealth? I can see that, it goes hand in hand with light to no armor and maximum movement potential. Bluff? Situational, maybe. Sense motive, absolutely. I would like to hear your thoughts on UMD as a class skill. I picture magic arms and armor/shield use, a cloak that could enhance their movement/sneak, a magic helm (allows for enhanced vision/awareness, that sort of thing), rings (again, to enhance their abilities as expert warriors), but UMD is a bit broad in scope and at first blush, having a Myrmidon that can use a wand or staff(as examples only) doesn't quite fit my idea of what i think of in terms of a Myrmidon.


Haedrius wrote:

Disclaimer: I am no expert when it comes to class design.

Lol, having said that, when i think of Myrmidons, i think of Troy, which i'll freely admit that they may not be close approximations of the real deal. I honestly don't know. I don't see Myrmidons <Rose colored Troy googles on> doing things like sneak attack, infiltration yes. They struck me as more of an up close and personal, want to let you know it's coming kind of warrior, if that makes sense. Stealth? I can see that, it goes hand in hand with light to no armor and maximum movement potential. Bluff? Situational, maybe. Sense motive, absolutely. I would like to hear your thoughts on UMD as a class skill. I picture magic arms and armor/shield use, a cloak that could enhance their movement/sneak, a magic helm (allows for enhanced vision/awareness, that sort of thing), rings (again, to enhance their abilities as expert...

Interesting feedback, thank you. You addressed something I had meant to do but forgot:

Sneak attack needs to be re-flavored and maybe even restructured. It's not so much a sneak attack as it is their ability to make vital strikes whenever the opponent is hindered. I could rename it as "Overwhelming Blow" or "Vital Blow" or "Opportunist Strike", you know, something like that.

UMD... I think that because the class is so focused on physical mastery, Magical Devices seem like something they'd have to master on the off time, definitely not a natural part of the class the way i envision it. Magic items are perfect, and most don't require any sort of UMD ability. As for magic armor, the answer is Bracers of Armor.

Edit
Looking back over the build, it seems I included UMD. I must have forgotten to remove it in my most recent iteration. That shouldn't be on his class skills list, though if someone is catching my flavor drift and could explain a good reason why it aught to be on there, by all means.


i would really like to see sneak attack renamed in this build as it doesn't feel quite right. maybe something like clear strike, or something like that.
edit: nevermind you got it, btw in the case of greek myrmidons, the were a mythological people descended from zeus who got it on with a princess in the form of an ant...yeah. later on the people of that community were dying off so zeus made more out of ants. According to my Grandfather the word minion is actually derived from myrmidon. not positive on the last one, but wanted to share some greek culture with yall. sorry for the derail.


so taking a closer look at the construction engine. according to it Monks are the most powerful class and Sorcerers are the weakest...


+5 Toaster wrote:
so taking a closer look at the construction engine. according to it Monks are the most powerful class and Sorcerers are the weakest...

Well, that's not QUITE true. It's got a combination of abilities that add up to the highest point value.

In order to calculate most powerful class, I think you'd have to consider ability synergies, MAD potential, and other... stuffs.

Just pull out your core rulebook, monks have so many more abilities than all the other classes, but for some reason everyone's always complaining about monks!


I need to get a hold of that class builder....

Can I say, it feels like a monk archtype rather than a new class...

That being said, I started out to build a stealth-based monk-rogue-ranger hybrid, and ended up just going with a monk archtype. (Yours is a lot further along than mine.)
mine is also build around natural attacks...


Kybryn wrote:
+5 Toaster wrote:
so taking a closer look at the construction engine. according to it Monks are the most powerful class and Sorcerers are the weakest...

Well, that's not QUITE true. It's got a combination of abilities that add up to the highest point value.

In order to calculate most powerful class, I think you'd have to consider ability synergies, MAD potential, and other... stuffs.

Just pull out your core rulebook, monks have so many more abilities than all the other classes, but for some reason everyone's always complaining about monks!

i just think spellcasting as a whole should be worth significantly more, and that could compromise builds with it. it's just difficult to swallow that paladins are only considered mid-range and yet like the monk have a whole slew of special abilities, and are casters to boot.[/derail]

but back to the subject i think an expanding method of applying sneak attack damage, due to the classes heavy dependence on it, like they get to pick a particular status condition and get to apply sneak attack when the opponent has it (similar to the vicious opportunist concept). Actually how about getting the improved combat maneuver feats as bonus feats? just some ideas to increases potential.


Perhaps the ability to use a combat maneuver with a great bonus instead of actual sneak damage...Might fit the "sabotage" element really well..
(For example, instead of the d6's added, maybe a free sunder or disarm as part of the attack?

Silver Crusade

Redchigh wrote:

Perhaps the ability to use a combat maneuver with a great bonus instead of actual sneak damage...Might fit the "sabotage" element really well..

(For example, instead of the d6's added, maybe a free sunder or disarm as part of the attack?

I like that idea actually, awesome. Kybryn, give some consideration to Redchigh's thoughts on this. I was thinking of a combination of two things, bear with me. How about instead of bonus dice of damage like Redchigh suggested, give the Myrmidon a bonus to confirm critical strikes and allow the class an option: Either standard bonus damage as per the critical rules or allow your Myrmidon a free use of any combat maneuver that cannot be countered. If the player chooses a combat maneuver, it is automatically successful. A powerful ability for the class, but not 100% guaranteed <randomness tends to prevent an excess of critical strikes>.


I think the ability to not be countered could be a seperate bonus feat given later.

(At level 1, a myrm with free disarms and a wand on unseen servant to collect the weapons might be too good)

Maybe on a successful disarm, the myrm does it in such a way that the weapon goes flying 30 ft (and the myrm can do a free action to aim the disarmed flying weapon, treated as a ranged attack by the myrm with normal improvised weapon penalties), or as a swift action the myrm (with a free hand) can "catch" the falling disarmed weapon.

That would be incredibly fun...

(A class Im working on can attempt a pin on sneak attack instead of SA dice as part of the move, sort of mimicing a large predator irl. I'm trying to mimic a big feline predator's "pounce" in real life. On a successful pin from this ability, they can spend a ki point to 'Go for the Throat' and either do massive damage or just latch on with a bite or tentacle and suffocate the target. The 'latch on' sustains the pin while doing con damage, and leaves other paws/tentacles free to make other attacks.
Any attempt to escape the pin (via spellcasting, escape artist, or a str check) provokes an AoO.

Silver Crusade

Redchigh wrote:

I think the ability to not be countered could be a seperate bonus feat given later.

(At level 1, a myrm with free disarms and a wand on unseen servant to collect the weapons might be too good)

Maybe on a successful disarm, the myrm does it in such a way that the weapon goes flying 30 ft (and the myrm can do a free action to aim the disarmed flying weapon, treated as a ranged attack by the myrm with normal improvised weapon penalties), or as a swift action the myrm (with a free hand) can "catch" the falling disarmed weapon.

That would be incredibly fun...

(A class Im working on can attempt a pin on sneak attack instead of SA dice as part of the move, sort of mimicing a large predator irl. I'm trying to mimic a big feline predator's "pounce" in real life. On a successful pin from this ability, they can spend a ki point to 'Go for the Throat' and either do massive damage or just latch on with a bite or tentacle and suffocate the target. The 'latch on' sustains the pin while doing con damage, and leaves other paws/tentacles free to make other attacks.
Any attempt to escape the pin (via spellcasting, escape artist, or a str check) provokes an AoO.

Granted, at 1st level that would be a bit much. My intent was for that to be a possible change for the class that comes into play as the Myrmidon becomes more experienced to reflect his skill. Definately like the approach though :)


Then again, have you considered making it a prestige class?.

Could require knowledges, and the first level in myrm represents gaining "enlightenment" based on the knowledges..

(just food for thought)


Hey guys,

Thanks for all the brainstorming. I really like all of the ideas regarding combat maneuvers, but what I had in mind is the evoker of melee classes if you catch my drift. Someone who is focused on being there when needed to crank out the damage necessary to finish an opponent.

What makes this different, (and less dependent on sneak attack) than a rogue is the fact that he gets full BAB (if you didn't notice) and finesse strike. I am very interested in the concept of altering "Sneak Attack" to be usable upon certain conditions that aren't necessarily exactly the same as sneak attack, but similar. Maybe it would be based on demoralization as opposed to being denied dex bonus. "Overwhelming Blow"

1. Overwhelming Strike: If a myrmidon can catch an opponent when he is overwhelmed by his attacks, he can exploit a weakness in his enemies defenses for extra damage.

The myrmidon's attack deals extra damage anytime his target is demoralized, feinted, helpless, or when the myrmidon flanks his target. This extra damage is 1d6 at 1st level, and increases by 1d6 every two myrmidon levels thereafter. Should the myrmidon score a critical hit with a sneak attack, this extra damage is not multiplied. Ranged attacks can count as sneak attacks only if the target is within 30 feet.

With a weapon that deals nonlethal damage (like a sap, whip, or an unarmed strike), a myrmidon can make an overwhelming strike that deals nonlethal damage instead of lethal damage. She cannot use a weapon that deals lethal damage to deal nonlethal damage in a sneak attack, not even with the usual –4 penalty.

The myrmidon must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a weakness in his defenses and must be able to reach such a spot. A myrmidon cannot sneak attack while striking a creature with concealment."

Edit:
Do you guys think that a way to create the statuses above more readily in combat should be integrated into the class? Also, if not, do you think that the above situations would be more or less common that sneak attack worthy situations. I guess it comes down to "Flat Footed Vs Demoralized/Feinted"

Edit 2:
Also, consider the secondary Armor Bonus ability. Instead of a bonus to CMD, I swapped it for a bonus to CMB, that means that he is a very deft combat maneuverist. That combined with an exotic weapon proficiency or just a simple secondary martial weapon (like a halberd) to trip or disarm people from a range is already a part of the build.


Have you considered doing a possible slower progression for sneak attack for this class? Again, without playtesting I can't properly judge the power on it, but it seems like it might be a little more fitting.


you actually didn't list it's bab so i think everyone assumed 3/4 to go with the hitdice. Well overwhelming strike definitely fits the class well, and makes great strides to improving the consistenty of it's bonus damage.


Doggan wrote:
Have you considered doing a possible slower progression for sneak attack for this class? Again, without playtesting I can't properly judge the power on it, but it seems like it might be a little more fitting.

I think that's very fitting... though the balance is hard here, because i have to take into consideration the reduced skill monkey capabilities. I think that a playtest would be important here to gague the relative power. Also, taking into consideration the different requirements for the added damage. I could also just reduce the damage to d4's instead of d6's.

Another issue regarding Combat Maneuvers, if this class dumps strength, than CMB suffers greatly. What about adding this to Finesse Strike

Finesse Strike (Ex): A myrmidon of 12th level may substitute half of his Dexterity bonus to damage rolls and his CMB instead of strength. At 16th level, he may substitute his entire Dexterity bonus to damage rolls and his CMB instead of strength.

This is lvl 12+ mind you, so the class continues to evolve.


+5 Toaster wrote:
you actually didn't list it's bab so i think everyone assumed 3/4 to go with the hitdice. Well overwhelming strike definitely fits the class well, and makes great strides to improving the consistenty of it's bonus damage.

Yah since I don't have the table displayed (impossible), you would have had to open the "CP Breakdown"


Kybryn wrote:
Doggan wrote:
Have you considered doing a possible slower progression for sneak attack for this class? Again, without playtesting I can't properly judge the power on it, but it seems like it might be a little more fitting.

I think that's very fitting... though the balance is hard here, because i have to take into consideration the reduced skill monkey capabilities. I think that a playtest would be important here to gague the relative power. Also, taking into consideration the different requirements for the added damage. I could also just reduce the damage to d4's instead of d6's.

Another issue regarding Combat Maneuvers, if this class dumps strength, than CMB suffers greatly. What about adding this to Finesse Strike

Finesse Strike (Ex): A myrmidon of 12th level may substitute half of his Dexterity bonus to damage rolls and his CMB instead of strength. At 16th level, he may substitute his entire Dexterity bonus to damage rolls and his CMB instead of strength.

This is lvl 12+ mind you, so the class continues to evolve.

I was just thinking since Sneak Attack is on the 3/4 BAB classes, you might want to reduce it a bit for a full BAB class.

As to your other point, perhaps push something else back a couple of levels (if you push Sneak attack back to being every 3 levels, so you'd get another d6 of SA at 4 instead of 3, this would fit perfectly at level 3) you can always toss this bonus feat in somewhere: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/agile-maneuvers-combat


Doggan wrote:

I was just thinking since Sneak Attack is on the 3/4 BAB classes, you might want to reduce it a bit for a full BAB class.

As to your other point, perhaps push something else back a couple of levels (if you push Sneak attack back to being every 3 levels, so you'd get another d6 of SA at 4 instead of 3, this would fit perfectly at level 3) you can always toss this bonus feat in somewhere: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/agile-maneuvers-combat

That feat kinda solves my problems and removes a bit of the customization from my hands, I like it.

I'm leaning more towards reducing it to d4's than reducing the frequency, since the class is heavily dependant upon the amount of dice rolled. This is I think a good trade off from where we are: Reduce to d4's, and add Agile Maneuvers.

Dedicated Voter 2013, Dedicated Voter 2014, Star Voter 2015

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Don't forget the Vicious Opportunist's archetype approach to sneak attack from Zecrets of Tactical Archetypes II - gives extra damage to foes suffering from various of the dbilitating conditions... Might be a good mechanic for your Myrmidon to take advantage of foes


Possibly against affected creatures the attacks (if they hit) automatically crit?
Anys sort of bonus damage ajust screams rogue/swashbuckler.

Specifically, what can this class do that no other class can do?
If you like causing debuffing effects, then focus on that.

For instance, when sneak attack would be deallt, instead offer a normal attack with a debuff... Like "brutal beating", "Intimidating Prowess", "Lock Gaze" etc, along with a bonus to crit and confirmation against 'debuffed' opponants?

Or even extra actual "attacks" against debuffed targets (like a mini-flurry of blows).

Bonus dice damage is just meh, but your basic class has potential for some real uniqueness... Thats what makes a class viable and intresting imo.


Redchigh wrote:

Possibly against affected creatures the attacks (if they hit) automatically crit?

Anys sort of bonus damage ajust screams rogue/swashbuckler.

Specifically, what can this class do that no other class can do?
If you like causing debuffing effects, then focus on that.

For instance, when sneak attack would be deallt, instead offer a normal attack with a debuff... Like "brutal beating", "Intimidating Prowess", "Lock Gaze" etc, along with a bonus to crit and confirmation against 'debuffed' opponants?

Or even extra actual "attacks" against debuffed targets (like a mini-flurry of blows).

Bonus dice damage is just meh, but your basic class has potential for some real uniqueness... Thats what makes a class viable and intresting imo.

The issue i run into here is the mechanic for Favored Weapon. It relies on replacing the dice from Overwhelming strike, and so if I got rid of the dice, I would have to scrap or rework that entire ability.

I really would like to incorporate crits into the build somehow, but when you consider the fact that the class is already proficient with one Exotic weapon, you could stack crit feats and be a critical master without much effort. On top of that, you're on full BAB so you don't have to wait extra time for bab dependent feats. Finesse Fighter together with full BAB, this class shouldn't struggle to crit.

Edit:
To answer your question, what can this class do that is unique, you need to take a good look at Favored Weapon. He can increase his weapon damage, exchanging 1d4 overwhelming for additional damage, he can overcome DR and hardness.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 , Dedicated Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014

This looks like a rogue archetype, trading in some skill points for monk-like AC and some Fighterish stuff.

The carrier-effects on the sneak attack is neat. Maybe work on emphasizing that.

The adding Dex to damage and stuff is a bit odd. It seems tacked on and a bit awkward.


In legends, Myrmidons were not only the fiercest fighters but also the most ruthless. They would obey commands without question and had no pity or compassion.

I'd think they'd likely be more of a Fighter archetype. If you want to combine some Rogue or Monk features to give them even better fighting abilities (and, really, the Monk ought to be helpful here), that's fine, but they ought to be skilled in all martial weapons.

Also, am I the only one who wonders why they don't have ant haul or an ability similar to it?


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

When I say something like "What does this class do that is unique?", I'm not looking at specific, new abilities. Each archetype has unique abilities. What I'm looking at is the general role of this class. When I look at this I see Fighter with some Monk and Rogue abilities, plus this neat thing he can do with his favored weapon. He's a melee damage guy that fulfills the same role those three classes do, combines several of their class features, and can do some other neat tricks with one weapon.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Because this is really just a variation of an existing class, it's more suited to being an archetype.

Paizo / Messageboards / Paizo Publishing / Pathfinder® / Pathfinder RPG / Suggestions/House Rules/Homebrew / Proposed Class: Myrmidon All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.

©2002–2014 Paizo Inc.®. Need help? Email customer.service@paizo.com or call 425-250-0800 during our business hours: Monday–Friday, 10 AM–5 PM Pacific Time. View our privacy policy. Paizo Inc., Paizo, the Paizo golem logo, Pathfinder, the Pathfinder logo, Pathfinder Society, GameMastery, and Planet Stories are registered trademarks of Paizo Inc., and Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Pathfinder Adventure Path, Pathfinder Adventure Card Game, Pathfinder Player Companion, Pathfinder Modules, Pathfinder Tales, Pathfinder Battles, Pathfinder Online, PaizoCon, RPG Superstar, The Golem's Got It, Titanic Games, the Titanic logo, and the Planet Stories planet logo are trademarks of Paizo Inc. Dungeons & Dragons, Dragon, Dungeon, and Polyhedron are registered trademarks of Wizards of the Coast, Inc., a subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc., and have been used by Paizo Inc. under license. Most product names are trademarks owned or used under license by the companies that publish those products; use of such names without mention of trademark status should not be construed as a challenge to such status.